Never give this guy a job as an NFL scout (Nkeal Harry evaluation)

[RobertWeathers]

Interesting thought experiment with Harry: I think almost everyone is in agreement that Harry isn't going to live up to first round billing. Most guys who do have shown something by year two, and he hasn't. The hope now (if we don't trade/cut him) is that he can still turn into a solid contributor in a lesser role. Again, not worth a first round pick, but eventually a WR3 and redzone target would be the high end.

My question: Can you think of examples like this, where a player was highly drafted, didn't live up to it, but then carved out a solid role WITH the team that drafted them? I feel like most "success" stories like this involve a change of scenery first (Kyle Van Noy is the first one that jumps to my mind). Can anyone think of any, Pats or otherwise?

Sony Michel? Malcom Brown? Tavon Wilson? Patrick Chung? Danny Graham? Tebucky Jones?

You could also make a case for Irvin Fryar.

 

[Love The Drake]

I'm not a college scouting guy, but I always laugh when all of the "film breakdown" involves things that would never happen in the NFL. When you juke out 5 defenders, it's because the defenders are far from pro caliber. When you turn around the corner/safety, it's because that guy is in over his head.

Hire this man you Might be the WR scout we have been missing all these years.

 

[Sicilian]

Sony Michel? Malcom Brown? Tavon Wilson? Patrick Chung? Danny Graham? Tebucky Jones?

You could also make a case for Irvin Fryar.

Good list. Only one I wouldn't count there was Chung, because he still had to go somewhere else before coming back to revitalize his career.

 

[Bill Lee]

If people want to be objective and call a terrible draft pick what it is, there is nothing wrong with that.

Yes, there is something wrong with that.

It is based on the idea that it is possible to be perfect in the draft and thus it's right to be butt hurt when the second overall pick is better than the first, when in reality drafting is an inexact science.

In reality if you look back at QBs picked in the first round the batting average of picks that end up being elite QBs is at best 50:50.

For every Mahomes you get a Trubisky.

Note that Trubisky was picked 2nd so should be better than Mahomes picked 10th.

Tom Brady picked 199th beat out Drew Bledsoe picked #1 overall.

So, picking a WR with the thirty second pick and not getting Randy Moss is normal.

Would it matter if we traded down to 33rd and he was then a second round pick?

It seems it would to many on this board.

You can be both good and lucky in the draft and still end up with teams, just look at Indy over the last decade.

People put way too much importance on the draft in general and draft position in particular.

The sad part is the way it makes people miserable about players on their own team.

You are letting BSPN and the draft industrial complex make you miserable.

It's a beautiful spring morning, forget about where Harry was drafted and get outside while it's nice out.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

 

[RobertWeathers]

Good list. Only one I wouldn't count there was Chung, because he still had to go somewhere else before coming back to revitalize his career.

I always forget about that stop for a cup of coffee in Philly....

 

[Sicilian]

I always forget about that stop for a cup of coffee in Philly....

If it weren't for BB openly admitting he used him incorrectly during his first stint, I'd swear it was an intentional exile to get him to wake up.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If it weren't for BB openly admitting he used him incorrectly during his first stint, I'd swear it was an intentional exile to get him to wake up.

This is Belichick being a leader taking responsibility even if it wasn't him. Dean Pees was quoted saying Belichick spent all his time with Brady and the offense and barely checked on what Pees was doing. Dean Pees did multiple odd things as DC, not only playing Chung as a free safety but also had the CBs play 10 yards off the line of scrimmage all the time. We could never get a key 3rd down stop. Even if BB says it was him, of course he would say that since he always takes the blame, but a lot of this was Dean Pees doing multiple head scratching moves on defense.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

"These examples" are every catch/run from last season, no bias at all.

Looks like you don't want to try to justify "doesn't fight at all for the ball" and are back to being butt

You seem to have an issue with logic. A low catch rate and not fighting for the ball , all these misses won't show up on a tape where he caught the ball. You can try to show whatever highlight tape you want. End of the day Harry can't even average 9 yards a catch which is absolutely terrible, and a 55% catch rate is so inefficient it's not even worth it to try to get this guy the ball. Low catch rate AND a low payoff when he catches it.

 

[captain stone]

Sony Michel? Malcom Brown? Tavon Wilson? Patrick Chung? Danny Graham? Tebucky Jones?

You could also make a case for Irvin Fryar.

Tavon the Error Repeater Wilson?!?

 

[Brotherblues]

There's a big difference between evaluating film and watching highlight videos.

 

[Ivan]

I don't think twitchy-quickness, suddenness and foot speed can be taught.

Some horses are slow out of the gate. Can't change them.

True, but it is definitely puzzling that Belichick would take a WR that can’t get separation when that was his top criteria for taking a WR?

 

[RobertWeathers]

True, but it is definitely puzzling that Belichick would take a WR that can’t get separation when that was his top criteria for taking a WR?

Harry was rumored to have advantages in 50/50 ball situations so they de-emphasized the "separation" trait they are known to be valuing which was a death blow.

The Patriots historically value receivers with fast 40-yard dash and three-cone times. That’s one reason why the selection of Harry strayed from the Patriots’ norm.

Since 2000, Belichick has drafted 16 receivers. The average height and weight of those players was 5-9.5 and 199.6 pounds. Those players ran an average 40 of 4.44 and ran an average 6.88 3-cone drill.

Harry’s 4.53 40-yard dash was well below the Patriots average and the third-slowest behind Givens (4.56) and Sam (4.54). The rookie isn’t in bad company, however, as Julian Edelman is right behind him at 4.52.

It’s similar for his three-cone time (7.05). The only three receivers with slower times were Matthew Slater (7.31), Aaron Dobson (7.19) and Jeremy Gallon (7.07).

A look at Harry by the numbers

FOXBORO — N’Keal Harry is unique. When the Patriots selected him with the 32nd pick in the 2019 NFL Draft, he became the first NFL draftee to come from St. Vincent and the Grenadines, a small isla…

www.providencejournal.com

 

[Bill Lee]

You seem to have an issue with logic. A low catch rate and not fighting for the ball , all these misses won't show up on a tape where he caught the ball. You can try to show whatever highlight tape you want. End of the day Harry can't even average 9 yards a catch which is absolutely terrible, and a 55% catch rate is so inefficient it's not even worth it to try to get this guy the ball. Low catch rate AND a low payoff when he catches it.

You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.

The poster made the claim that Harry "doesn't fight at all for the ball" and I produced video clips showing he does.

Simples, no?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.

The poster made the claim that Harry "doesn't fight at all for the ball" and I produced video clips showing he does.

Simples, no?

I'm less concerned with that point, the bottom line is he only catches 55% of his targets for multiple different reasons including possibly not fighting for the ball. 55% catch rate is pathetic, no ifs ands or buts about it. And even with your tape it's impossible to ignore only 9 yards a catch. It's a total waste to give him snaps when you have Agholor, Meyers, Bourne, Henry, Smith, Harry, JamesWhite.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Harry was rumored to have advantages in 50/50 ball situations so they de-emphasized the "separation" trait they are known to be valuing which was a death blow.

A look at Harry by the numbers

FOXBORO — N’Keal Harry is unique. When the Patriots selected him with the 32nd pick in the 2019 NFL Draft, he became the first NFL draftee to come from St. Vincent and the Grenadines, a small isla…

www.providencejournal.com

Here's a novel idea, how about instead of dumb obsessions with 40 or 3cone, the #1 evaluation is can the WR get open? Belichick and his dad's original manual says to find a WR who can get open via quickness or route running, or alternatively win on balls thrown. It says nothing about focusing on combine times. This was a new crappy insert from McDaniels/Caserio in 2004 and our WR/CB drafting has been league worst for 16 years. They haven't drafted anyone good at WR since Deion Branch/Givens, then got Edelman/Meyers with low/UDFA ways. Gronk/Hernandez were found with O'Brien and Reese here.

 

[Bill Lee]

I'm less concerned with that point, the bottom line is he only catches 55% of his targets for multiple different reasons including possibly not fighting for the ball. 55% catch rate is pathetic, no ifs ands or buts about it. And even with your tape it's impossible to ignore only 9 yards a catch. It's a total waste to give him snaps when you have Agholor, Meyers, Bourne, Henry, Smith, Harry, James White.

I think all the talent we've added and returning from injury (hopefully Jules makes it back) will mean we can use Harry more selectively instead of putting him as much as we did last year. It seems reasonable to suggest, for instance, that if the other team has to focus on the new TEs near the line of scrimmage then Harry can get more yards per catch. I think there is room for improvement, he's gotten better the more he played. I don't think the coaching staff will decide it's a total waste to give him some snaps, and will be able to use him more situationally.

 

[TheRainMaker]

@DropKickFlutie

Rotoworld has confirmed what you've been saying for a long time that Harry got the edge from his private workout at Gillette.

N'Keal Harry - Chicago Bears - news and analysis, statistics, game logs, depth charts, contracts, injuries

N'Keal Harry profile page, biographical information, injury history and news

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Pape]

Maybe the "scout" went to John Carroll? Lol

If anyone relies on bleacher report for scouting reports, or any of the basically fan published sites, you get what you pay for...

I had hoped that Harry would turn a corner last year, but based on beat reporter columns - guys like curran, there is no real reason to think he will be any better this year... Done in by a lack of effort and a bad qb... Hurts we wasted a first, but it's a story that's been told before in the annals of nfl history

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Maybe the "scout" went to John Carroll? Lol

If anyone relies on bleacher report for scouting reports, or any of the basically fan published sites, you get what you pay for...

I had hoped that Harry would turn a corner last year, but based on beat reporter columns - guys like curran, there is no real reason to think he will be any better this year... Done in by a lack of effort and a bad qb... Hurts we wasted a first, but it's a story that's been told before in the annals of nfl history

I have a hard time believing he'll make a leap this year. With Agholor and Bourne and more 2 TE sets, i see his playing time drop even more. Probably his last year, IMO.