My take on Moss fans

[BradyFTW!]

This team WITH Moss wasn't getting it done either. Even with one of the strongest teams ever.

There are many reasons to be sad about this trade but "This just cost us our Superbowl" doesn't make too much sense in light of our history, with and without Moss.

Last year's team won its division and had its shot in the playoffs (which it blew, largely on account of a freak week 17 injury to Welker). Without Moss, that team doesn't come within spitting distance of the playoffs. Talk all you want about which teams did and didn't win the SB, but as Pats fans we should know more than anyone that the difference between a SB winner and a team that loses in the early playoff rounds can be something as small as one controversial call, one third down stop, one injury, one incomplete pass, etc. etc.

I'll never get why people think they can go and judge entire team-building philosophies based on which team won the SB and which team came inches short, as if uncontrollable outside factors didn't play an absolutely massive role in determining those incomes. If you could plan your way to a Super Bowl victory, Belichick would bring home the Lombardi every year, but you can't. There are a ton of factors outside of your (or anyone's, really) control. That's why a someone like the 2001 team can and win it all while the 2007 version loses due to some of the flukiest plays I've ever seen.

If Asante Samuel had made a play that he should make, Moss is a SB hero and we're still celebrating the 2007 squad as the best ever. If you're claiming that Moss' teams never got it done and that's why he's gone, you're essentially holding Moss accountable for Samuel's mistake, when one has nothing to do with the other.

That's not to say that we should pretend that the 2007 team won a SB, but instead I'm saying that that's not an effective standard for evaluating how to build a team. There's a reason why Belichick didn't stand pat with the 2001 team, and it's because you can't plan on catching lightning in a bottle like that over and over again. Look at what happened in 2002.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: My take on Moss fans.

I didn't blame the offense for anything.

My bad. It sounded like you were saying that the offense wasn't productive. I (and I see a number of others) pointed out that they really weren't on the field much and that they actually were productive when they were out there. I do find that misunderstandings abound on this board so I'll try to do better next time.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Why is MOSS GONE---- THE ANSWER IS D: ALL OF THE ABOVE!

Not sure what point you're driving at, but that didn't work out too great for the Vikings (who, for the record, had an abysmal defense and one of the worst head coaches in the NFL and still managed to win a playoff game in Moss's last season). Red McCombs sold off Moss because the resulting lower payroll made the team more attractive as an asset for sale to Zygi Wilf. Go and ask any Vikings fan if they'd do the Moss-for-Napoleon-Harris-and-Troy-Williamson-pick trade over again.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: My take on Moss fans.

While I too might have had a Jimmy Carter like fondness for a stripper, as a Moss fan I'm simply happy that he was here. I like the fact that he sincerely wanted to stay here even at the end. Sometimes greatness is like a Greek tragedy, a fatal flaw in the hero prevents his attainment of the goal and destroys him. This was the case with Randy's career as a Patriot. I wish hm the very best Monday and with an exception here and there I wish him a continued HOF career with happiness and peace in his life.

Amen.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: My take on Moss fans.

My bad. It sounded like you were saying that the offense wasn't productive. I (and I see a number of others) pointed out that they really weren't on the field much and that they actually were productive when they were out there. I do find that misunderstandings abound on this board so I'll try to do better next time.

I probably should have been more explicit, but I didn't really want to get into it with anyone. All I was trying to point out is that the offense was just along for the ride in that game, and pointing to the game as some 'proof' of what's to come would be a stretch, since we can't expect to have 21 points off of special teams every game.

 

[eagle eye]

Last year's team won its division and had its shot in the playoffs (which it blew, largely on account of a freak week 17 injury to Welker). Without Moss, that team doesn't come within spitting distance of the playoffs. Talk all you want about which teams did and didn't win the SB, but as Pats fans we should know more than anyone that the difference between a SB winner and a team that loses in the early playoff rounds can be something as small as one controversial call, one third down stop, one injury, one incomplete pass, etc. etc.

I'll never get why people think they can go and judge entire team-building philosophies based on which team won the SB and which team came inches short, as if uncontrollable outside factors didn't play an absolutely massive role in determining those incomes. If you could plan your way to a Super Bowl victory, Belichick would bring home the Lombardi every year, but you can't. There are a ton of factors outside of your (or anyone's, really) control. That's why a someone like the 2001 team can and win it all while the 2007 version loses due to some of the flukiest plays I've ever seen.

If Asante Samuel had made a play that he should make, Moss is a SB hero and we're still celebrating the 2007 squad as the best ever. If you're claiming that Moss' teams never got it done and that's why he's gone, you're essentially holding Moss accountable for Samuel's mistake, when one has nothing to do with the other.

That's not to say that we should pretend that the 2007 team won a SB, but instead I'm saying that that's not an effective standard for evaluating how to build a team. There's a reason why Belichick didn't stand pat with the 2001 team, and it's because you can't plan on catching lightning in a bottle like that over and over again. Look at what happened in 2002.

Excellent post.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: My take on Moss fans.

He was also one of the best at his position so he just might know a thing or two about football. You know, more than just a bunch of people sitting at their computers.



Then feel free to hit ignore and go stick your head back in the sand while we lose to the ravens and chargers due to our new impotent offense.

OK, so why do you think BB traded him?

What is your solution to keep him?

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

The people who are so upset over the trade are of the "He's a freak of nature, who else is going to make those highlight reel catches" mindset. They fell in love with the stripper.

Personally, even if the Pats had went 19-0...I enjoyed watching the 03-04ish Pats much more. It was a balanced attack, and the games were more exciting. You had the feeling the Pats would probably win, but they weren't blowing teams out.

Pats fans became Colts fans...in love with the deep ball. To use a baseball analogy...give me a guy that has a great on base percentage and batting average over a guy that has 40 HRs but bats .250 (cough, Yankees, cough.)

I think Belichick realized that Moss, while a great player, wasn't the missing piece of a championship. I think he also had in mind what he wanted the team to become.

Brady threw for 4,400 yards last year and Moss caught 13 TDs...but it meant nothing as they went 10-6 and got bounced out of the playoffs right away.

Moss was fun to watch, but fantasy football doesn't win championships.

I'm confident the team can play more like it did on Monday night. That was the most satisfying game for me to watch in years.

Do they have the experience to win like that every game? Of course not. But I don't think losing Moss equates to losing more games.

Wow, so you are saying "I like the years where we won Super Bowls more than when my heart was broken in to a 1000 pieces" Ya, hindsight is great, we've all got it to.
Moss didn't lose us the game against the Ravens last year.
Moss having great fantasy games doesn't win us championships, correct. DEFENSE does. But since our defense is incredibly young and needs lots of offensive help this year for us to stay in games, having Moss is HELPFUL.

I liked 2001's result better than 2007's.

Yes, the "results" were much better. I also like having sex with my wife over getting sodomized in prison. What is your point?

Yeah, I was one of the koolaid chuggers myself until the Moss trade. I was always saying we could be fine everytime something bad happened. But this is just ridiculous.... He trades away our best receiver in the middle of the season for next to nothing and has absolutely NO ONE to replace him. Tate can't get the job done if that's what he has in mind. Tate can't stretch defenses and draw double coverage. No defense is afraid of Tate. We have no viable deep threat anymore.

The question will be: do we *need* a deep threat? I would say yes, as we've got a lot of very young players in our skill positions and I think having the best deep threat in the game gave them a lot of extra room to help them with their growing pains. However, I am not Bill Belichick and do not profess to have enough football knowledge to even mow his grass so I will continue to have faith that he will figure out a way to make this work. Plus with how our Oline has been playing lately, if we continue to give Brady time, he will find someone to throw it to, regardless of how open the field is.
I'm still more concerned with our injury prone RB committee and it's lack of depth.

 

[Synovia]

Personally, even if the Pats had went 19-0...I enjoyed watching the 03-04ish Pats much more. It was a balanced attack, and the games were more exciting. You had the feeling the Pats would probably win, but they weren't blowing teams out.

The 03 and 04 teams winning the superbowl had nothing to do with being more balanced on offence. The 2007 offense was better than them in every phase of the game.


The '03 and '04 teams won because their defenses were very good. The 07 team's defense was terrible.

 

[stavros27]

The funny thing is that barring a crazy, fluke play in the 2007 SB, Moss would have gone down as a saint in New England for his record breaking season and for catching what would have been the game-winning TD in the Super Bowl. He played great with Matt Cassel in 2008 and the team just wasn't build to contend in 2009 especially with Welker going down at the end of the season and Brady still getting back to normal from his knee injury.

Who knows what happens if Brady is healthy in 2008. Could have been another run at a perfect season or Super Bowl. Moss did more than anyone expected when he came here. He has been arguably the best receiver in football since he came to New England. But people still try to bring him down. I look forward to seeing him tear it up with Favre back home in Minnesota.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: My take on Moss fans.

OK, so why do you think BB traded him?

What is your solution to keep him?

I can't answer the first, but the second can be answered. The easy solution was to extend his contract or give him a new one. That would have avoided any unpleasantness that arose over the last week or so.

My opinion is that what's done is done. Could it have been prevented? Yes. Could Moss have behaved a little bit better? Yes. There's fault on both sides. The trade is done. Let it rest and look forward to the game against Baltimore where we get to see how the young guys will react.

 

[woodheadwow]

Moss wasn't even the best receiver on our team, nevermind the best in the league (note: Andre Johnson was 10x the player Moss was during the same time period). Have you ever watched the guy when he is not part of the play? He doesn't even fake it... he just stops and walks, and then the CB on his side goes and makes the tackle for a loss. Then the next play he'll alligator arm a tough catch up the middle and go cry on the sideline when he isn't targeted again within the next few plays. Randy Moss is a LOSER. Randy Moss is SOFT. Randy Moss is a BABY. Randy Moss is a ME GUY. Randy Moss is SELFISH. Randy Moss is OVERRATED. Randy Moss is a waste of a talent. Randy Moss is a STIFF.
I haven't hated a guy as much as Moss since the days of Chris Canti (Cante? sorry can't remember spelling).

WW

The funny thing is that barring a crazy, fluke play in the 2007 SB, Moss would have gone down as a saint in New England for his record breaking season and for catching what would have been the game-winning TD in the Super Bowl. He played great with Matt Cassel in 2008 and the team just wasn't build to contend in 2009 especially with Welker going down at the end of the season and Brady still getting back to normal from his knee injury.

Who knows what happens if Brady is healthy in 2008. Could have been another run at a perfect season or Super Bowl. Moss did more than anyone expected when he came here. He has been arguably the best receiver in football since he came to New England. But people still try to bring him down. I look forward to seeing him tear it up with Favre back home in Minnesota.

 

[Kontradiction]

Moss wasn't even the best receiver on our team, nevermind the best in the league (note: Andre Johnson was 10x the player Moss was during the same time period). Have you ever watched the guy when he is not part of the play? He doesn't even fake it... he just stops and walks, and then the CB on his side goes and makes the tackle for a loss. Then the next play he'll alligator arm a tough catch up the middle and go cry on the sideline when he isn't targeted again within the next few plays. Randy Moss is a LOSER. Randy Moss is SOFT. Randy Moss is a BABY. Randy Moss is a ME GUY. Randy Moss is SELFISH. Randy Moss is OVERRATED. Randy Moss is a waste of a talent. Randy Moss is a STIFF.
I haven't hated a guy as much as Moss since the days of Chris Canti (Cante? sorry can't remember spelling).

WW

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Moss wasn't even the best receiver on our team, nevermind the best in the league (note: Andre Johnson was 10x the player Moss was during the same time period). Have you ever watched the guy when he is not part of the play? He doesn't even fake it... he just stops and walks, and then the CB on his side goes and makes the tackle for a loss. Then the next play he'll alligator arm a tough catch up the middle and go cry on the sideline when he isn't targeted again within the next few plays. Randy Moss is a LOSER. Randy Moss is SOFT. Randy Moss is a BABY. Randy Moss is a ME GUY. Randy Moss is SELFISH. Randy Moss is OVERRATED. Randy Moss is a waste of a talent. Randy Moss is a STIFF.
I haven't hated a guy as much as Moss since the days of Chris Canti (Cante? sorry can't remember spelling).

Mike Felgers posting on this board now?

It was Canty

 

[stavros27]

Andre Johnson..10 x better than Moss? Sure he's a great receiver...but he has proven nothing.

Just for fun...Randy Moss' stats when he played Johnson's division last year.

VS TEN - 8 catches 129 yds 3 TDs
VS IND - 9 catches 179 yds 2 TDs
VS JAC - 4 catches 45 yds 3 TDs
VS HOU - 5 catches 75 tds 0 TDs

Randy may have caught 23 tds per season if he was in a division like this for his whole career.

 

[Kontradiction]

Andre Johnson..10 x better than Moss? Sure he's a great receiver...but he has proven nothing.

Just for fun...Randy Moss' stats when he played Johnson's division last year.

VS TEN - 8 catches 129 yds 3 TDs
VS IND - 9 catches 179 yds 2 TDs
VS JAC - 4 catches 45 yds 3 TDs
VS HOU - 5 catches 75 tds 0 TDs

Randy may have caught 23 tds per season if he was in a division like this for his whole career.

Yeah. That would pretty much mean that Johnson is 10 times the player of the second greatest receiver of all time. That's pretty impressive.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: My take on Moss fans.

I can't answer the first, but the second can be answered. The easy solution was to extend his contract or give him a new one. That would have avoided any unpleasantness that arose over the last week or so.

My opinion is that what's done is done. Could it have been prevented? Yes. Could Moss have behaved a little bit better? Yes. There's fault on both sides. The trade is done.

That is the maddening thing- the "what if" we're never going to know. He's always going to give us that tantalizing "what if it could have happened?"

I think Jason Whitlock said it best:

Moss is the unstable, super-hot girl you never marry. You tell her what she needs to hear, you might even give her the code to your garage door but you never commit. You enjoy the ride while it lasts and you move on without any hard feelings.

Moss trade reeks of desperation - NFL News - FOX Sports on MSN

 

[woodheadwow]

How many TDs does Johnson catch w/ Brady throwing to him? Plus, Johnson isn't a whiny little ***** contact avoider like Moss.

WW

Andre Johnson..10 x better than Moss? Sure he's a great receiver...but he has proven nothing.

Just for fun...Randy Moss' stats when he played Johnson's division last year.

VS TEN - 8 catches 129 yds 3 TDs
VS IND - 9 catches 179 yds 2 TDs
VS JAC - 4 catches 45 yds 3 TDs
VS HOU - 5 catches 75 tds 0 TDs

Randy may have caught 23 tds per season if he was in a division like this for his whole career.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: My take on Moss fans.

That is the maddening thing- the "what if" we're never going to know. He's always going to give us that tantalizing "what if it could have happened?"

I think Jason Whitlock said it best:



Moss trade reeks of desperation - NFL News - FOX Sports on MSN

That's a pretty solid take on Moss. I commend him.

 

[Run DMC]

You have to admit, never a dull moment with this team, eh?