My $0.02 on the crowd

[Ring 6]

Uhh yeah. Real fair analogy.. Booing in comparison to drug use

We need to have a course on this board on what an analogy is.
This is not one.
I did not compare booing to drug use.

I was talking about his argument, and its horrendous structure.
Try keeping up with the point, then you won't have to get confused on why you think someone is doing something that they arent doing.

 

[PonyExpress]

The team that played last Sunday deserved a good booing. Adulation must be earned week to week. No self-respecting fan could watch that performance and not be disgusted on a moral and spiritual level. It was the worst performance in 8 years by this team.

 

[Kontradiction]

You guys are joking right?

Or are you really comparing cheering or booing at a sports game to rape or drug use or any other actual actions of major consequence?

Are you guys even listening to yourselves?

People are going to express their opinion at sporting events whether you try to heap righteous shame on them or not. Accept it.

Yes, I was joking. I thought that was obvious with the cool sunglasses emote that I used but I guess my sense of humor must be too cutting edge for some.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

This is really parallel though.
There are many flaws in the comparison.
1) When you produce your product there isnt a competitor trying to prevent you from producing it.
2) I would imagine you are not in an industry where your production is acceptable 50% of the time and unacceptable 50% of the time (i.e. win or lose) and if you were I would imagine that 21 good productions in a row would earn you goodwill if the 22nd were subpar (again assuming you only have a 50/50 shot)
3) Your 'bad day' at work would have to affect your product, because thats what you are at work for.
4) I dont imagine your job parallels football in that you are 'live' once a week, and spend a week preparing for that, but rather that your work throughout the week contributes to the finished product.
There are just too many differences between a regular job and a football player, or teams job to make them parallel.

1) You'd be wrong. They put out a better product, they win.
2) You'd be wrong on this one too. All they care about is the bottom line and what my product can and will bring in. Businesses don't run on goodwill. They exist for one single reason, to make a profit.
3) No more than a bad practice does. If you have a bad practice, it slows things down. If I have a bad work day, it slows things down
4) I do go live every week. Everything I produce determines the outcome of the final product. If I can't get it done, I don't ship. It's as simple as that. Much like a bad product means no Super Bowl.

If a movie is bad, I walk out.
If a restaurant is bad, I never go back.
I can go down the line. If a product is bad, accepting that bad product without being critical because it's football is really pushing it when you wouldn't be silent in other areas of your lives.

This is football. It's a game and it you're paying to see the game, whether someone cheers, boos or leaves early is their own business in my view. If people don't like it, they have one option. They can ignore it.

 

[Ring 6]

You guys are joking right?

Or are you really comparing cheering or booing at a sports game to rape or drug use or any other actual actions of major consequence?

Are you guys even listening to yourselves?

People are going to express their opinion at sporting events whether you try to heap righteous shame on them or not. Accept it.

Wow, just wow.
I don't know how I can continue to converse with you, if you are incapable of understanding what is written.

I used the drug example to show how far off you were in stating my side of the arguemnt. Please reread that. Please read the ENTIRE post. Please notice how I am saying that the question you asked is IGNORANT.
I say it isnt a matter of effort, and you conclude that me not agrereing with booing means that I wouldn't care if my son gave no effort. It is totally backward. That is where the drug example comes in.

Let me spell it out slowly.
You implying based on what I have said to date that I wouldn't care if my son gave no effort would be EQUIVALENT TO DRAWING THE CONCLUSION of the drug example.
IN OTHER WORDS your conclusion has NO BASIS to what I have said nad the example of drug use is to ILLUSTRATE ANOTHER POOR CONCLUSION.

Please keep up, because its getting very hard to have to explain everything I type to you as if you never received an education.

 

[Tunescribe]

The team that played last Sunday deserved a good booing. Adulation must be earned week to week. No self-respecting fan could watch that performance and not be disgusted on a moral and spiritual level. It was the worst performance in 8 years by this team.

Please tell me you're joking. Please. (The being disgusted on a moral and spiritual level would seem to indicate as much. Next time use a smiley so we don't have to guess.)

 

[maverick4]

If a movie is bad, I walk out.
If a restaurant is bad, I never go back.

If you are a huge fan of a specific movie star, who has pumped out tons of your personal favorite movies, who is still in his/her prime, and then has one horrendous movie, do you boo during or right after that movie?

You probably say it was a bad movie, and keep quiet, instead of go around booing.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

But he is right.
You said that the players didnt even try to win the game. How ignorant can you be.

Please detail for me all of the evidence that says they weren't trying to win. Specifically how YOU KNOW they werent trying. Not what they did poorly that you didn't like, but exactly the inistances where you saw they werent even trying.

Love the insults by the VIP, Mod crowd if anything shows nothing but frustration cause it sure as hell doesnt bother me.

Please detail for me the evidence that they gave it their all and failed to win the game despite giving it their all. When you find that evidence please present it.

You can just see that besides the beginning of the game where they made a stand once fins scored they just gave up. It just happened that there was lack of effort. The mere fact that someone mentions that here is reason for character assasination. Bottom line people went to see the game and like I stated earlier in my opinion there was a lack of effort and when that happens it is subject to displeasure by the crowd. They have a right to do that. Just because you dont agree it doesnt make the crowd idiots not appreciative of what the team has accomplished or will accomplish.

This is my opinion and I could care less whether you approve of it or not.

 

[Ring 6]

1) You'd be wrong. They put out a better product, they win.
2) You'd be wrong on this one too. All they care about is the bottom line and what my product can and will bring in. Businesses don't run on goodwill. They exist for one single reason, to make a profit.
3) No more than a bad practice does. If you have a bad practice, it slows things down. If I have a bad work day, it slows things down
4) I do go live every week. Everything I produce determines the outcome of the final product. If I can't get it done, I don't ship. It's as simple as that. Much like a bad product means no Super Bowl.

If a movie is bad, I walk out.
If a restaurant is bad, I never go back.
I can go down the line. If a product is bad, accepting that bad product without being critical because it's football is really pushing it when you wouldn't be silent in other areas of your lives.

This is football. It's a game and it you're paying to see the game, whether someone cheers, boos or leaves early is their own business in my view. If people don't like it, they have one option. They can ignore it.

1) I'm not wrong. Of course you have competition, but they aren't in front of you trying to prevent you from doing your job. I.e. business and football is a terrible analogy
2) You seem to ignore the most important facet. If you are expected to succeed 50% of the time and you succeed 100% of the time for a long period of time and are EXCEEDING EXPECTATIONS, you do no know business if you think a mistake will be treated the same as if you were medicore.
3) much different than practice
4) completing tasks weekly isnt the same as practicing all week for 1 game.
you work to finish the product throughout a week, its entirely different

As I said, you just cant draw a parallel it is very different.
Unless you corner the market and sell your product to everyone who buys it, you cannot compare what you do to the expectation of having to win every week.

 

[Ring 6]

Love the insults by the VIP, Mod crowd if anything shows nothing but frustration cause it sure as hell doesnt bother me.

Please detail for me the evidence that they gave it their all and failed to win the game despite giving it their all. When you find that evidence please present it.

You can just see that besides the beginning of the game where they made a stand once fins scored they just gave up. It just happened that there was lack of effort. The mere fact that someone mentions that here is reason for character assasination. Bottom line people went to see the game and like I stated earlier in my opinion there was a lack of effort and when that happens it is subject to displeasure by the crowd. They have a right to do that. Just because you dont agree it doesnt make the crowd idiots not appreciative of what the team has accomplished or will accomplish.

This is my opinion and I could care less whether you approve of it or not.

Its not an insult, its a conclusion. Your comments ARE ignorant.
There is simply no way that you can honestly judge their level of effort. Its inane to suggest you can.
They played poorly, you didn't like it. You feel you are entitled to them winning. It made you mad, you booed. When asked why you booed, you decided that it would be ok to boo if you cared more about winning than they did, so you chose that answer.
Ignorant.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Its not an insult, its a conclusion. Your comments ARE ignorant.
There is simply no way that you can honestly judge their level of effort. Its inane to suggest you can.

Whether my comments are ignorant or not I am not getting into it you have your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.As far as their level of effort: Our all-star DL being pushed around by scrubs what does that tell you?

They played poorly, you didn't like it.

Did you?

It made you mad, you booed.

It made me mad yes did I boo was not at the game but I could see why they did.

When asked why you booed, you decided that it would be ok to boo if you cared more about winning than they did, so you chose that answer.
Ignorant.

Not at all. In my view it's ok to boo if the players dont give it their all. As far as ignorant again if I can help in any way to help you with your frustration about the matter thats what fellow pats fans are here for. I am glad to help.

So two questions for you:

Do you think the players gave it their all in this game?

Our all-star DL being pushed around bys scrubs why do you think it happened?

 

[Wildo7]

Whether my comments are ignorant or not I am not getting into it you have your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.As far as their level of effort: Our all-star DL being pushed around by scrubs what does that tell you?



Did you?



It made me mad yes did I boo was not at the game but I could see why they did.



Not at all. In my view it's ok to boo if the players dont give it their all. As far as ignorant again if I can help in any way to help you with your frustration about the matter thats what fellow pats fans are here for. I am glad to help.

So two questions for you:

Do you think the players gave it their all in this game?

Our all-star DL being pushed around bys scrubs why do you think it happened?

I think they gave it their all, but then again I have no clue because I am not psychic. Those "scrubs" are NFL players and on any given Sunday they can push around anyone. Not o mention that your characterization of them getting "pushed around" is far too simplistic.

This is exactly what pisses me off the most about this. A bunch of whiny spoiled fans passing judgment about how hard a team tried that just won 21 straight. Some of you people are a complete joke.

 

[PonyExpress]

Please tell me you're joking. Please. (The being disgusted on a moral and spiritual level would seem to indicate as much. Next time use a smiley so we don't have to guess.)

...........

 

[Mike the Brit]

...........

Ah ... thank goodness!

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think I can find some common ground here.

The fans that booed are bad fans because they booed.

The fans that seem to feel a need to tell those fans they're bad, are also bad fans for being so judgmental and righteous.

And the fans that told the righteous and judgmental fans that they're judgmental and righteous are also bad fans for defending those who booed in the first place.

Does that about cover it?

 

[JoeSixPat]

In my view it's ok to boo if the players dont give it their all.

Amen Brother.

I'll cheer the Patriots in a 50-0 loss if they're giving it their all.

If they're not giving it their all, that's just not the Patriot way, and it doesn't matter how long a streak they're coming off of.

I'm just still trying to figure out when Patriots players and so many fans decided it was OK for the team to rest on their laurels. THAT'S what's making me mad - not the booing.

 

[Ring 6]

Whether my comments are ignorant or not I am not getting into it you have your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.As far as their level of effort: Our all-star DL being pushed around by scrubs what does that tell you?



Did you?



It made me mad yes did I boo was not at the game but I could see why they did.



Not at all. In my view it's ok to boo if the players dont give it their all. As far as ignorant again if I can help in any way to help you with your frustration about the matter thats what fellow pats fans are here for. I am glad to help.

So two questions for you:

Do you think the players gave it their all in this game?

Our all-star DL being pushed around bys scrubs why do you think it happened?

The exact reason I am calling you ignorant is that you have no way of knowing whether they 'gave their all' or not. You are saying they didn't because it justifys being immature and booing. Why boo is they aren't trying but not if they are just awful? Is that what we are now talking about? We only boo effort, it doesnt matter if they win or lose? So we won't boo them if they are 0-16?

I will answer both of your questions.

1) I do not know if they gave their all. I cannot judge that from my vantage point. I assume they did because its hard for me to envision that professional football players go out on the field and just decide to not try. I imagine there are some players that make it to the NFL who have effort issues. I cannot imagine a team having effort issues and I cannot imagine the effort level of an entire team varying game to game.
Mostly, I find it ludicrous to think that in a sport where you spend the day having collisions, and physically beating or being beaten that its even an option to not 'give it your all' you really seem to be suggesting that Richard Seymour decided that he was going to let the guy across from him physically beat him, and he didn't really care. He wouldnt try to not get beaten up. Its foolish to me.

2) They got outplayed. You are talking like they were being blocked by 180lb girls, and the only way they get blocked is if they lay down or fall asleep. These are NFL players. Any NFL player has the ability to beat any NFL player. There is not a single matchup in the NFL that one guy wins all day long.
Go back and grade the DL. Tell me honestly with each guy how many plays he won, how many he lost, and how many you think he didn't try.
Dont tell me the result was bad, so they didnt try, tell me you looked at the tape, tell me you saw a guy not get blocked and walk not run to the ballcarrier and miss him, or something tangible to say there was no effort.

At this point no effort is something you have made up because it gives credence to your booing. Give me a shred of evidence.

 

[Ring 6]

Amen Brother.

I'll cheer the Patriots in a 50-0 loss if they're giving it their all.

If they're not giving it their all, that's just not the Patriot way, and it doesn't matter how long a streak they're coming off of.

I'm just still trying to figure out when Patriots players and so many fans decided it was OK for the team to rest on their laurels. THAT'S what's making me mad - not the booing.

This is revisonary history.
Fans booed because of the SCORE.
After the fact, the explanation was effort. Show me examples of how they werent trying. Explain to me how they could lose 50-0 and give it there all?
Tell me even how you could tell they werent giving their all.
If the players truly were out there not giving a damn, how does that happen? How does a whol team of players decide one day, independently of each other to just not try? How do people who make their living winning or losing man to man fights all of sudden not care if they lose them?
What do you look at to decide whether they are giving their all? It can't be the result because you just said 50-0 could still mean they are.
This approach that you watch, assessed how hard they were trying, and judged THAT to be the problem regardless of the score is disingenuous. It simply could not have happened.

 

[Pats726]

I've got pretty simple rules that I tend to follow.

When players play well, they get cheered.

When they play badly, I don't cheer.

When they play well below what they are capable of, I boo.

There's no statute of limitations on how many games following a winning streak that prohibits booing. Though there shoud be a statute of limitations on how many threads about booing we should have.

Maybe some of the players are upset about the fans who showed up and booed.

Give the fans some credit - at least they showed up.

So you do the same thing as a Jet fan would do if the Patriots were playing in NY...BOOOOO!! Wonderful....I don't get the logic of booing one's own team..it seems the OPPOSITE of what a fan is about...HOW does THAT booing support the team?? you see..it doesn't...and that is the point..

 

[Ring 6]

I think I can find some common ground here.

The fans that booed are bad fans because they booed.

The fans that seem to feel a need to tell those fans they're bad, are also bad fans for being so judgmental and righteous.

And the fans that told the righteous and judgmental fans that they're judgmental and righteous are also bad fans for defending those who booed in the first place.

Does that about cover it?

Not really.

Fans booed.
These discussions have been about the VALUE SYSTEM OF THE POSTERS.

Some, like me, have a value system that says this team had done things that fans should appreciate, and they would need to do a lot worse than what happened in one half of football for it to be justified for the fans to turn on them.

Some feel its about them, and they can do what they want.

Some feel they are the consciense of the players, and must decide when they dont care so they can boo them into caring.

Some feel that regardless of whatever has happened before today, if the team does something wrong they should be villified equally to as if they had never accomplished anything before.

It isn't about good or bad, it is about a value system.
I choose to think my value system is much less selfish that what I am hearing here, and within my value system being less selfish is better.