PatsFans.com - Mobile
PatsFans.com
Search

Moneyball and the price of winning in the NFL

2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
What makes a championship team? Simply put, getting the the most talent possible out on the field for the same amount of money that everybody else pays. After that there are human factors and coaching that come into play, but generally those things only tend to REALLY matter if the above is close. As this year has shown us once again Players > Coaching. But what is the secret formula? It's impossible to know. Cause no one can tell us for sure what a player is worth any given year.

The 13% rule has been brought up a lot for QBs lately, and while it isn't always true, it is really part of a larger question about value and good contracts. Drafting well to get low priced talent in, and luck with injuries on your best/most valued players.

However, if we were to do a best estimate what would it take to be a super bowl champion? How much do you need to get on the field talent wise above the cap to be one of the top teams? It's an impossible question to answer for sure. But I'll give it a try. Let's look at the 2020 Bucs.

They entered with a salary cap of 198.2 which rolled over into 204, and they used 203 of it. That puts them 5 over the cap. They also had dead money and injured reserved. Subtract those and you have about 187M. At this point they are about 11M under expected value. However, their injuries where not major when it came to the most important times in the playoffs for them.

Here are the main contracts that were plus value. This will be totally based on my opinion.

Brady 28.5M vs a real value of 40M (+11.5M)
Evans 8.3M vs a real value of 17.3M (+9M)
Marpet 6.9M vs 12.9M (+6M)
Vea 4M vs 15M (+11M)
Wirfs 3M vs 15M (+12M)
Godwin 2.3M vs 14.2M (+12M)
Brown 2M vs 8M (+6M)
Bunting 1.7M vs 6.7M (+5M)
Davis 1.2M vs 9.2M (+8M)
Dean .9M vs 4.9M (+4M)
Winfield 1.3M vs 8.3M (+7M)
Misc (+6M) <They had very few bad contracts and a bunch of other pretty good contracts>

Add all of this up and their total on the field cash goes from 187M to (+97.5M) 284.5M or about 43.5% above cap value (198.2) by my estimate.

So what does this number really mean? Is there anything we can take from it? Let's look at one of our own Patriots teams and find out. Let's look at the most recent champion, the 2018 Patriots. The salary cap then was 177.2M. Taking away injured reserve and dead cap they spent 156M (so they are at 88% of the cap)

Brady 22M vs a real value of 37M (+15M) <A slightly higher % than 2020 for rounding purposes, but he was also slightly better then IMO>
Gilmore 8.9M vs a real value of 18.9M(+10M)
Cannon 6M vs 8M (+2M)
Edelman 3.9M vs 7.9M (+4M)
Van Noy 3.7M vs 7.7M (+4M)
Guy 3.7M vs 5.7M (+2M)
Mason 3.4M vs 12.4M (+9M)
McCourty 3.9M vs 6.9M (+3M)
Andrews 2.4M vs 8.4M (+6M)
Flowers 2M vs 13M (+11M)
Trenton Brown 1.9M vs 9.9M (+8M) <Who else kinda forgot about how big he was for us this year?>
Thuney .9M vs 8.9M (+8M)
J. Jones .6M vs 5.6M (+5M)
Jackson .5 vs 8.5M (8M) <This is at the time, his value has gone up since>
Misc (+3M) <some other okay contracts>

Overall this comes out to (+98M) I didn't do this math before hand by the way. So I didn't change anything to try to make it fit with anything else. Let's pop it in an see what happens. 98 + 155=253M That is about 43% above cap value. AND I SWEAR I DID NOT SET THIS UP BEFORE HAND OR CHANGE THE NUMBERS. You might disagree with my numbers and that is fine, do them yourself and see what you come up with. But it seems to me we might be seeing a pattern here. Something about getting over 40% of your cap value on the field is probably close to some kind of threshold.

Do it yourself and change my numbers and see what you come up with.
 
Last edited:

DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
What makes a championship team? Simply put, getting the the most talent possible out on the field for the same amount of money that everybody else pays. After that there are human factors and coaching that come into play, but generally those things only tend to REALLY matter if the above is close. As this year has shown us once again Players > Coaching. But what is the secret formula? It's impossible to know. Cause no one can tell us for sure what a player is worth any given year.

The 13% rule has been brought up a lot for QBs lately, and while it isn't always true, it is really part of a larger question about value and good contracts. Drafting well to get low priced talent in, and luck with injuries on your best/most valued players.

However, if we were to do a best estimate what would it take to be a super bowl champion? How much do you need to get on the field talent wise above the cap to be one of the top teams? It's an impossible question to answer for sure. But I'll give it a try. Let's look at the 2020 Bucs.

They entered with a salary cap of 198.2 which rolled over into 204, and they used 203 of it. That puts them 5 over the cap. They also had dead money and injured reserved. Subtract those and you have about 187M. At this point they are about 11M under expected value. However, their injuries where not major when it came to the most important times in the playoffs for them.

Here are the main contracts that were plus value. This will be totally based on my opinion.

Brady 28.5M vs a real value of 40M (+11.5M)
Evans 8.3M vs a real value of 17.3M (+9M)
Marpet 6.9M vs 12.9M (+6M)
Vea 4M vs 15M (+11M)
Wirfs 3M vs 15M (+12M)
Godwin 2.3M vs 14.2M (+12M)
Brown 2M vs 8M (+6M)
Bunting 1.7M vs 6.7M (+5M)
Davis 1.2M vs 5.2M (+4M)
Dean .9M vs 8.9M (+8M)
Winfield 1.3M vs 8.3M (+7M)
Misc (+6M) <They had very few bad contracts and a bunch of other pretty good contracts>

Add all of this up and their total on the field cash goes from 187M to (+97.5M) 284.5M or about 43.5% above cap value (198.2) by my estimate.

So what does this number really mean? Is there anything we can take from it? Let's look at one of our own Patriots teams and find out. Let's look at the most recent champion, the 2018 Patriots. The salary cap then was 177.2M. Taking away injured reserve and dead cap they spent 156M (so they are at 88% of the cap)

Brady 22M vs a real value of 37M (+15M) <A slightly higher % than 2020 for rounding purposes, but he was also slightly better then IMO>
Gilmore 8.9M vs a real value of 18.9M(+10M)
Cannon 6M vs 8M (+2M)
Edelman 3.9M vs 7.9M (+4M)
Van Noy 3.7M vs 7.7M (+4M)
Guy 3.7M vs 5.7M (+2M)
Mason 3.4M vs 12.4M (+9M)
McCourty 3.9M vs 6.9M (+3M)
Andrews 2.4M vs 8.4M (+6M)
Flowers 2M vs 13M (+11M)
Trenton Brown 1.9M vs 9.9M (+8M) <Who else kinda forgot about how big he was for us this year?>
Thuney .9M vs 8.9M (+8M)
J. Jones .6M vs 5.6M (+5M)
Jackson .5 vs 8.5M (8M) <This is at the time, his value has gone up since>
Misc (+3M) <some other okay contracts>

Overall this comes out to (+98M) I didn't do this math before hand by the way. So I didn't change anything to try to make it fit with anything else. Let's pop it in an see what happens. 98 + 155=253M That is about 43% above cap value. AND I SWEAR I DID NOT SET THIS UP BEFORE HAND OR CHANGE THE NUMBERS. You might disagree with my numbers and that is fine, do them yourself and see what you come up with. But it seems to me we might be seeing a pattern here. Something about getting over 40% of your cap value on the field is probably close to some kind of threshold.

Do it yourself and change my numbers and see what you come up with.

I like it. Nice analysis.
1. Hitting on cheaper rookie contracts is huge.
2. Bucs benefitted from random signings that Brady brought in.
3. I was going to say normally good cap allocation is to not overpay at RB or interior OLine but not always the case.
 

masterbouncer

On the Game Day Roster
NFL Picks Grand Champ!
Most value you get from rookies and their very cheap contracts, if you hit on them and they are major contributor you can be in the mix for the SB (of course other things like less injuries and a capable QB are important as well)

half of your list of the Bucs is including very good rookies with major contribution through the year (Vea, Wirfs, Winfield, Godwin, etc) if you don't have them its difficult to have such talent on the cheap thus having a team that is a contender, thats why it is important to hit in the draft
 

farn

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Bucs had interesting talent to start with & improved as the year went on. They bounced back from what was - at times - an inconsistant regular season to win it all.

Talk of « this new way of team building » will likely subside as they struggle to win back-back championships (as 99% of teams do) and the blueprint chat will move on to another squad just as it did re: KC (and PHI 2017, SEA 2013.....)
 

betterthanthealternative

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
You've put numbers to what Belichick has said about the reset. They managed to do something like this for six years in a row, with 4 SB's and 3 wins. Really remarkable.

What makes a championship team? Simply put, getting the the most talent possible out on the field for the same amount of money that everybody else pays. After that there are human factors and coaching that come into play, but generally those things only tend to REALLY matter if the above is close. As this year has shown us once again Players > Coaching. But what is the secret formula? It's impossible to know. Cause no one can tell us for sure what a player is worth any given year.

The 13% rule has been brought up a lot for QBs lately, and while it isn't always true, it is really part of a larger question about value and good contracts. Drafting well to get low priced talent in, and luck with injuries on your best/most valued players.

However, if we were to do a best estimate what would it take to be a super bowl champion? How much do you need to get on the field talent wise above the cap to be one of the top teams? It's an impossible question to answer for sure. But I'll give it a try. Let's look at the 2020 Bucs.

They entered with a salary cap of 198.2 which rolled over into 204, and they used 203 of it. That puts them 5 over the cap. They also had dead money and injured reserved. Subtract those and you have about 187M. At this point they are about 11M under expected value. However, their injuries where not major when it came to the most important times in the playoffs for them.

Here are the main contracts that were plus value. This will be totally based on my opinion.

Brady 28.5M vs a real value of 40M (+11.5M)
Evans 8.3M vs a real value of 17.3M (+9M)
Marpet 6.9M vs 12.9M (+6M)
Vea 4M vs 15M (+11M)
Wirfs 3M vs 15M (+12M)
Godwin 2.3M vs 14.2M (+12M)
Brown 2M vs 8M (+6M)
Bunting 1.7M vs 6.7M (+5M)
Davis 1.2M vs 5.2M (+4M)
Dean .9M vs 8.9M (+8M)
Winfield 1.3M vs 8.3M (+7M)
Misc (+6M) <They had very few bad contracts and a bunch of other pretty good contracts>

Add all of this up and their total on the field cash goes from 187M to (+97.5M) 284.5M or about 43.5% above cap value (198.2) by my estimate.

So what does this number really mean? Is there anything we can take from it? Let's look at one of our own Patriots teams and find out. Let's look at the most recent champion, the 2018 Patriots. The salary cap then was 177.2M. Taking away injured reserve and dead cap they spent 156M (so they are at 88% of the cap)

Brady 22M vs a real value of 37M (+15M) <A slightly higher % than 2020 for rounding purposes, but he was also slightly better then IMO>
Gilmore 8.9M vs a real value of 18.9M(+10M)
Cannon 6M vs 8M (+2M)
Edelman 3.9M vs 7.9M (+4M)
Van Noy 3.7M vs 7.7M (+4M)
Guy 3.7M vs 5.7M (+2M)
Mason 3.4M vs 12.4M (+9M)
McCourty 3.9M vs 6.9M (+3M)
Andrews 2.4M vs 8.4M (+6M)
Flowers 2M vs 13M (+11M)
Trenton Brown 1.9M vs 9.9M (+8M) <Who else kinda forgot about how big he was for us this year?>
Thuney .9M vs 8.9M (+8M)
J. Jones .6M vs 5.6M (+5M)
Jackson .5 vs 8.5M (8M) <This is at the time, his value has gone up since>
Misc (+3M) <some other okay contracts>

Overall this comes out to (+98M) I didn't do this math before hand by the way. So I didn't change anything to try to make it fit with anything else. Let's pop it in an see what happens. 98 + 155=253M That is about 43% above cap value. AND I SWEAR I DID NOT SET THIS UP BEFORE HAND OR CHANGE THE NUMBERS. You might disagree with my numbers and that is fine, do them yourself and see what you come up with. But it seems to me we might be seeing a pattern here. Something about getting over 40% of your cap value on the field is probably close to some kind of threshold.
Do it yourself and change my numbers and see what you come up with.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
Bucs had interesting talent to start with & improved as the year went on. They bounced back from what was - at times - an inconsistant regular season to win it all.

Talk of « this new way of team building » will likely subside as they struggle to win back-back championships (as 99% of teams do) and the blueprint chat will move on to another squad just as it did re: KC (and PHI 2017, SEA 2013.....)
The blueprint is and always will be get a franchise QB.
 

BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
The blueprint is and always will be get a franchise QB.

Yes and no. I'm as big if not bigger than anyone on this board on the importance of a QB. I will pound that drum all day every day. But it's possible to win without a great one, just very difficult. The reason being the QB is where the most VALUE can be had. Most super bowl wins involve a great QB, but a great one that is paid well below his value. Usually (but not always) because he is on his rookie deal.

Sometimes you get a low paid QB who plays over his head or has a hot streak. This is a big reason (though not the only one) Brady didn't win between 05'-13'. During that time he was one of the highest paid QBs during much of that time (the time he was the best deal was 08' and 09' sadly). Add in that a fair amount of draft picks didn't hit (so we didn't get good value on the field for what we paid) and it made it a lot harder. Also we need to remember the fact that during that time BB refused to go 'all in' during any period cap wise. It meant the Pats were almost always the least talented team on the field deep in the playoffs during those years, and it showed. Still, they were able to come close.

IMO a franchise QB is almost always undervalued cap wise, which is why they are so valuable even when you pay them big money. It is also true that money is better spent certain ways. Strength across position is important. I'm not sure how'd I'd draw up the formula, but even if you had the best LT LG and C of all time, if your RG and RT absolutely suck, it doesn't really matter. So it isn't like dumping all your cash into a few spots is the answer either.
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
The blueprint is and always will be get a franchise QB.

Yes, but lots of teams have won without a franchise QB. Since 2000, these teams have won the SB with a mediocre-at-best QB (based on performance, not necessarily salary):

2000 - Trent Dilfer, Bal
2002 - Brad Johnson, TB
2007 - Eli Manning, NYG
2011 - Eli Manning, NYG
2012 - Joe Flacco, Bal
2015 - Peyton Manning, Den (obviously an all-time great, but in 2015 he was a TERRIBLE quarterback)
2017 - Nick Foles

So that's 7 out of the last 21 years teams have won the Lombardi with a mediocre-to-subpar QB. One out of every three years. So yes, obviously, it's much better to have a franchise QB - makes it apparently twice as easy to win a championship that way. But it certainly can be done other ways.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yes, but lots of teams have won without a franchise QB. Since 2000, these teams have won the SB with a mediocre-at-best QB (based on performance, not necessarily salary):

2000 - Trent Dilfer, Bal
2002 - Brad Johnson, TB
2007 - Eli Manning, NYG
2011 - Eli Manning, NYG
2012 - Joe Flacco, Bal
2015 - Peyton Manning, Den (obviously an all-time great, but in 2015 he was a TERRIBLE quarterback)
2017 - Nick Foles

So that's 7 out of the last 21 years teams have won the Lombardi with a mediocre-to-subpar QB. One out of every three years. So yes, obviously, it's much better to have a franchise QB - makes it apparently twice as easy to win a championship that way. But it certainly can be done other ways.
Many of those teams had other strengths beside QB (2000 Bal and 2015 Denver) and/or the QB performed above his normal game (Eli, Flacco, Foles). 2020 has helped show us that it has been, and always will be, about the players on the field.
 

farn

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Many of those teams had other strengths beside QB (2000 Bal and 2015 Denver) and/or the QB performed above his normal game (Eli, Flacco, Foles). 2020 has helped show us that it has been, and always will be, about the players on the field.
Ok, well that indeed makes the point that not only is it possible to win w/o a HoF type QB, but it happens far more often than people here want to acknowledge.

That is why I want BB to collect as much talent as possible - at any/all positions - rather than reach for a first round QB (to the delight of so many posters). If the right QB is there : sure. But fawning, year after year, over unproven college stars who flame out more often than not.... it’s become an annoying trend on patsfans (or should I say MaddenFans).
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
Many of those teams had other strengths beside QB (2000 Bal and 2015 Denver) and/or the QB performed above his normal game (Eli, Flacco, Foles). 2020 has helped show us that it has been, and always will be, about the players on the field.

Well yes, that's the point - that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Of COURSE it's better and easier to win if you have an elite quarterback. But you CAN win without one - if you build your team well. I mean the Parcells Giants won with Jeff Hostetler and Phil Simms (who was good but not elite). The Redskins won with three different QBs - two of which were not that good. I mean, if not for a crazy great play by Mahomes (the throw to Tyreek with six minutes left in the game), SF probably wins the SB last year with JG at QB.

But yes, all those teams had other great aspects to them. The 2019 Pats had, for the first 8-10 weeks, an historically great defense. They could have won with that, but the defense faded and the offense vanished and didn't pick up the slack.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
What makes a championship team? Simply put, getting the the most talent possible out on the field for the same amount of money that everybody else pays. After that there are human factors and coaching that come into play, but generally those things only tend to REALLY matter if the above is close. As this year has shown us once again Players > Coaching. But what is the secret formula? It's impossible to know. Cause no one can tell us for sure what a player is worth any given year.

The 13% rule has been brought up a lot for QBs lately, and while it isn't always true, it is really part of a larger question about value and good contracts. Drafting well to get low priced talent in, and luck with injuries on your best/most valued players.

However, if we were to do a best estimate what would it take to be a super bowl champion? How much do you need to get on the field talent wise above the cap to be one of the top teams? It's an impossible question to answer for sure. But I'll give it a try. Let's look at the 2020 Bucs.

They entered with a salary cap of 198.2 which rolled over into 204, and they used 203 of it. That puts them 5 over the cap. They also had dead money and injured reserved. Subtract those and you have about 187M. At this point they are about 11M under expected value. However, their injuries where not major when it came to the most important times in the playoffs for them.

Here are the main contracts that were plus value. This will be totally based on my opinion.

Brady 28.5M vs a real value of 40M (+11.5M)
Evans 8.3M vs a real value of 17.3M (+9M)
Marpet 6.9M vs 12.9M (+6M)
Vea 4M vs 15M (+11M)
Wirfs 3M vs 15M (+12M)
Godwin 2.3M vs 14.2M (+12M)
Brown 2M vs 8M (+6M)
Bunting 1.7M vs 6.7M (+5M)
Davis 1.2M vs 5.2M (+4M)
Dean .9M vs 8.9M (+8M)
Winfield 1.3M vs 8.3M (+7M)
Misc (+6M) <They had very few bad contracts and a bunch of other pretty good contracts>

Add all of this up and their total on the field cash goes from 187M to (+97.5M) 284.5M or about 43.5% above cap value (198.2) by my estimate.

So what does this number really mean? Is there anything we can take from it? Let's look at one of our own Patriots teams and find out. Let's look at the most recent champion, the 2018 Patriots. The salary cap then was 177.2M. Taking away injured reserve and dead cap they spent 156M (so they are at 88% of the cap)

Brady 22M vs a real value of 37M (+15M) <A slightly higher % than 2020 for rounding purposes, but he was also slightly better then IMO>
Gilmore 8.9M vs a real value of 18.9M(+10M)
Cannon 6M vs 8M (+2M)
Edelman 3.9M vs 7.9M (+4M)
Van Noy 3.7M vs 7.7M (+4M)
Guy 3.7M vs 5.7M (+2M)
Mason 3.4M vs 12.4M (+9M)
McCourty 3.9M vs 6.9M (+3M)
Andrews 2.4M vs 8.4M (+6M)
Flowers 2M vs 13M (+11M)
Trenton Brown 1.9M vs 9.9M (+8M) <Who else kinda forgot about how big he was for us this year?>
Thuney .9M vs 8.9M (+8M)
J. Jones .6M vs 5.6M (+5M)
Jackson .5 vs 8.5M (8M) <This is at the time, his value has gone up since>
Misc (+3M) <some other okay contracts>

Overall this comes out to (+98M) I didn't do this math before hand by the way. So I didn't change anything to try to make it fit with anything else. Let's pop it in an see what happens. 98 + 155=253M That is about 43% above cap value. AND I SWEAR I DID NOT SET THIS UP BEFORE HAND OR CHANGE THE NUMBERS. You might disagree with my numbers and that is fine, do them yourself and see what you come up with. But it seems to me we might be seeing a pattern here. Something about getting over 40% of your cap value on the field is probably close to some kind of threshold.

Do it yourself and change my numbers and see what you come up with.
Where are you getting these numbers from?
Hie is market worth more than thuney? Wirfs worth more than brown?
Vea played in 7 games including the playoffs and less than 300 snaps. How is he worth 15 mill?
Jamal Dean worth more than hc Jackson or Jones or McCourty?
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Yes, but lots of teams have won without a franchise QB. Since 2000, these teams have won the SB with a mediocre-at-best QB (based on performance, not necessarily salary):

2000 - Trent Dilfer, Bal
2002 - Brad Johnson, TB
2007 - Eli Manning, NYG
2011 - Eli Manning, NYG
2012 - Joe Flacco, Bal
2015 - Peyton Manning, Den (obviously an all-time great, but in 2015 he was a TERRIBLE quarterback)
2017 - Nick Foles

So that's 7 out of the last 21 years teams have won the Lombardi with a mediocre-to-subpar QB. One out of every three years. So yes, obviously, it's much better to have a franchise QB - makes it apparently twice as easy to win a championship that way. But it certainly can be done other ways.

It's also distorted because Brady has won another 7 with Belichick tree franchise building.

The greatest variation is injuries. In a world where football injuries didn't exist, we would have won 9-12 Super Bowls with 2006 and 2015 the most obvious.

The reality is teams that set themselves up to be consistently in the tournament win. That's the key because actually winning is a matter of fate and circumstance. Baltimore was in the tournament for several years before winning in 2012. They were on the ropes in Denver that year when the idiot Safety pulled a Mike Pettine and allowed the long pass. Things went their way....like having Bernard Pollard on the roster.

They fell out and only recovered recently with the Joe Sucko contract. Teams that do become too QB dependent Like the Colts, Packers, and Saints will pick one up. Imagine if NO had their current defense 2011-2016.
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Yes, but lots of teams have won without a franchise QB. Since 2000, these teams have won the SB with a mediocre-at-best QB (based on performance, not necessarily salary):

2000 - Trent Dilfer, Bal
2002 - Brad Johnson, TB
2007 - Eli Manning, NYG
2011 - Eli Manning, NYG
2012 - Joe Flacco, Bal
2015 - Peyton Manning, Den (obviously an all-time great, but in 2015 he was a TERRIBLE quarterback)
2017 - Nick Foles

So that's 7 out of the last 21 years teams have won the Lombardi with a mediocre-to-subpar QB. One out of every three years. So yes, obviously, it's much better to have a franchise QB - makes it apparently twice as easy to win a championship that way. But it certainly can be done other ways.

In fairness to most of these guys....they may not be elite but at the right time, they did provide elite play.

Foles being the best example.
 

BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
Where are you getting these numbers from?
Hie is market worth more than thuney? Wirfs worth more than brown?
Vea played in 7 games including the playoffs and less than 300 snaps. How is he worth 15 mill?
Jamal Dean worth more than hc Jackson or Jones or McCourty?
Do your own then.

As for Wirfs vs Brown, I think Wirfs was better by a bit. When you adjust for cap difference it is smaller BTW. If you want to say Brown maybe should be worth 10.9 or 11.9 that year fine, I won't argue with you. Maybe it should be reconsidered. Do your own list them and see what you come up with.

I don't care how many games Vea played in. I care that he played in the right games and added the value in them. Keep in mind, this is about winning the super bowl. He helped them win the NFCCG and SB. I think his value was huge in those games so that is what I went by.

Yes. Dean is more valuable than McCourty or Jackson (in that playoff run). 2018 Jackson < Jackson later on. Dean is a better athlete than Jackson which allowed him to match up with guys Jackson can't and he was in his 2nd year at the time. He also pulled the #1 duties where as Jackson didn't as much. McCourty is a good CB but only as a #2. If he had the play the #1 roll like Dean it would have been harder. IDK who you're talking about in relationship to Thuney. :/
 
Last edited:

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
Nice research. This shows why the vast majority of the nfl past couple decades have a 4-5 year playoff window max before missing a few. Your rookie contracts will run out quick and nobody can keep up that kind of drafting consistently. Only exceptions I can think of to the window are us, kc since 2015, colts under manning. All 3 were very top heavy with talent and/or had hof QBs (qb+ hc in our case). But many teams with the hof fall prey as well at some point (Rodgers, brees, Ben)
 
Last edited:

borg

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Many of those teams had other strengths beside QB
Bucs had an elite playoff defense who put their 58% playoff passer (who shat himself vs GB) in great field position to succeed.
Brady may get the headlines but the Bucs D was the real story

The Bucs are easily one if not the most complete team I've watched in the past two decades.
The roster on both sides of the ball is stacked

Team health must be part of any equation as well.
Bucs were amazingly healthy down the stretch and their defense took advantage of two physically broken QBs, one mentally weak QB, and one quarantine insurance policy QB plucked from the refuse pile.
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Bucs had an elite playoff defense who put their 58% playoff passer (who shat himself vs GB) in great field position to succeed.
Brady may get the headlines but the Bucs D was the real story

The Bucs are easily one if not the most complete team I've watched in the past two decades.
The roster on both sides of the ball is stacked

Team health must be part of any equation as well.
Bucs were amazingly healthy down the stretch and their defense took advantage of two physically broken QBs, one mentally weak QB, and one quarantine insurance policy QB plucked from the refuse pile.

Better not point that out, the fanboi's will be out and looking for blood.

It should also be noted that against New Orleans, their three TD drives covered like 40 yards total. The short fields coming off turnovers.
 

Top