Monday Night Football on BSPN Game thread: Cheathawks vs Bears

[SammyBlueCat]

<Bangs spoon into pan>

<<<Takes off Cat like quick>>>>

Whoooah! What happened???

 

[PatriotReign]

When was the last time a Patriot's player jumped a route for an interception?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Amukamara? Cmon Wilson

 

[ViperGTS]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Wilson is the most overrated player in football. Nobody gets more excuses than he does. He has horrendous pocket presence. Every time the guy gets sacked people cry about his offensive line, but at least half the time it's because he holds the ball too long or starts scrambling when he doesn't have to. The guy is great at backyard football but in a structured, nuanced offense he is simply not good. In a handful of years, when his speed and agility starts to falter, he's going to be extremely mediocre.

Completely true...can’t believe you are getting disagrees for this post.

He has never led an above average offense when it comes to points but has the second best QB rating of all-time. That in itself is suggests something is terribly wrong with his game and/or the QB rating system. He typically throws for about 50 yards through 3 quarters then pads his stats to make it look like he carried the team; he’s the master of empty drives and empty touchdowns. And you are completely correct about his pocket presence. So many excuses and finger pointing. I think the Seahawks realize how overrated he is and the FO doesn’t want to pay him like the elite QB he isn’t.

He’s finally piling up the losses to fall back in line to where he should be, which is a guy who can’t carry a team, is not a top tier quarterback, and is a coddled like no other player. Read the recent article about the Seahawks demise - his teammates basically all resented him.

 

[GodBrady]

Completely true...can’t believe you are getting disagrees for this post.

He has never led an above average offense when it comes to points but has the second best QB rating of all-time. He typically throws for about 50 yards through 3 quarters then pads his stats to make it look like he carried the team; he’s the master of empty drives and empty touchdowns. And you are completely correct about his pocket presence. So many excuses and finger pointing. I think the Seahawks realize how overrated he is and the FO doesn’t want to pay him like the elite QB he isn’t.

I read some speculation -- and this was dating back to last year -- that the front office might not give him a long-term deal. Instead, they'll franchise him for a year or two to mitigate risk of locking him up through his late 30's. I think there is merit to the idea that the FO is gunshy. I think he's going to age really poorly.

 

[fightingirish595]

Wilson is the most overrated player in football. Nobody gets more excuses than he does. He has horrendous pocket presence. Every time the guy gets sacked people cry about his offensive line, but at least half the time it's because he holds the ball too long or starts scrambling when he doesn't have to. The guy is great at backyard football but in a structured, nuanced offense he is simply not good. In a handful of years, when his speed and agility starts to falter, he's going to be extremely mediocre.

I’ve been saying this for a long time. And I loved him in college. His legs are a huge part of his game. Can’t discredit him for that. But I think there are better players from the pocket. That being said his Oline has been garbage for a while.

 

[Delicate Genius]

Tom Brady killed the Seahawks.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I’ve been saying this for a long time. And I loved him in college. His legs are a huge part of his game. Can’t discredit him for that. But I think there are better players from the pocket. That being said his Oline has been garbage for a while.

I wonder if this has to do with his height. For years we’ve heard he is the one of the very few exceptions to the rule of thumb that you need to be 6’ minimum to have success in the league. Maybe he is better than most shorter QBs (I believe he’s the only one under 6’ to win a SB for one), but does he really provide an example of success or just reinforce that a QB needs to be taller to succeed? It’s very possible that he needs to constantly scramble and move around the pocket unnecessarily in order to see the field, as his vision is effected by his lack of height. Is he a successful quarterback? Again I point to the overwhelming fact that his offenses are always below average - and sometimes really bad - in points scored. There’s no other QB in the league whose passer rating is so uncorrelated to point production. In other words, his height greatly affects the ability of the offense to score, though it doesn’t show up in traditional individual stats, and he is massively overrated.

 

[fightingirish595]

I wonder if this has to do with his height. For years we’ve heard he is the one of the very few exceptions to the rule of thumb that you need to be 6’ minimum to have success in the league. Maybe he is better than most shorter QBs (I believe he’s the only one under 6’ to win a SB for one), but does he really provide an example of success or just reinforce that a QB needs to be taller to succeed? It’s very possible that he needs to constantly scramble and move around the pocket unnecessarily in order to see the field, as his vision is effected by his lack of height. Is he a successful quarterback? Again I point to the overwhelming fact that his offenses are always below average - and sometimes really bad - in points scored. There’s no other QB in the league whose passer rating is so uncorrelated to point production. In other words, his height greatly affects the ability of the offense to score, though it doesn’t show up in traditional individual stats, and he is massively overrated.

I just don’t know how to fairly judge him. He never had to do much when Seattle was great. But he didn’t mess it up either. Made plays when he had to. He can get away with holding ball too long because of that escapability. Back to the original point though. His Oline/run game went from 100 to 0 real quick. Ever since they traded unger. They stink.

It’s been the same story for Seattle for a while it seems like. They don’t do ******** on offense for 3 quarters. Defense does enough throughout game to keep them in it and then the crazy stuff starts to happen. I swear it seems like that’s how half of their games have played out the last 3-4 years. I know you or someone else mentioned something along those lines.

Thing is he seems to be pretty accurate. But as we said he holds onto the ball along time, is it height? Not having great weapons, doesn’t read defenses great? Bad scheming? Combination of everything?

Lastly though, no one could succeed behind their line

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I just don’t know how to fairly judge him. He never had to do much when Seattle was great. But he didn’t mess it up either. Made plays when he had to. He can get away with holding ball too long because of that escapability. Back to the original point though. His Oline/run game went from 100 to 0 real quick. Ever since they traded unger. They stink.

It’s been the same story for Seattle for a while it seems like. They don’t do ******** on offense for 3 quarters. Defense does enough throughout game to keep them in it and then the crazy stuff starts to happen. I swear it seems like that’s how half of their games have played out the last 3-4 years. I know you or someone else mentioned something along those lines.

Thing is he seems to be pretty accurate. But as we said he holds onto the ball along time, is it height? Not having great weapons, doesn’t read defenses great? Bad scheming? Combination of everything?

Lastly though, no one could succeed behind their line

It’s hard to say on how many of these factors contribute to poor results, but I know that I’ve seen Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Manning put up top-5 PPG offenses with revolving door offensive lines, sometime due to injuries, and they all make their skill players look better which Wilson does not. So while the really elite QBs are making their offenses look better, Wilson makes his look worse despite always getting his padded stat lines. Their line isn’t great but they aren’t as historically terrible as Wilson jock riders want you to believe. The receivers aren’t great, but how many receivers have been made by Brady, Manning and Rodgers to look like pro bowl players when they really aren’t that good either?

It almost seems like a con game. People were really hyping him for MVP last year while their offense was arguably the worst in the NFL except in the fourth quarter when defenses went into soft zones and allowed him to rack up garbage stats like no other. So the narrative was his making fourth quarter clutch play rather than the ineptitude for 75% of the game which shot any chance of winning. They blame the defense for ultimately folding, but few defenses can sustain unfavorable field positions and anemic offenses for long. He turns every play into a stunt and a show when better QBs would just throw the ball to the right spot without all the drama. Really can’t say enough negative things about his game and emphasize how overrated this guy really is. It’s obvious why the Legion of Boom essentially broke up over a a guy in the other side of the ball. They realize all of these things but see this guy basking in glory while they were the ones doing everything.

 

[Soliel]

I just don’t know how to fairly judge him. He never had to do much when Seattle was great. But he didn’t mess it up either. Made plays when he had to. He can get away with holding ball too long because of that escapability. Back to the original point though. His Oline/run game went from 100 to 0 real quick. Ever since they traded unger. They stink.

It’s been the same story for Seattle for a while it seems like. They don’t do ******** on offense for 3 quarters. Defense does enough throughout game to keep them in it and then the crazy stuff starts to happen. I swear it seems like that’s how half of their games have played out the last 3-4 years. I know you or someone else mentioned something along those lines.

Thing is he seems to be pretty accurate. But as we said he holds onto the ball along time, is it height? Not having great weapons, doesn’t read defenses great? Bad scheming? Combination of everything?

Lastly though, no one could succeed behind their line

It’s not a combination of several negative aspects, only one glaring one. He’s from Wisconsin

 

[therealmattheew]

The problem is they don't have iconic voices like Micheals, Madden, Summeral, Enberg, etc.

Also, too many networks have caused CBS, Fox to hijack big games like yesterday. Would've been a great prime time game.

What are you complaining about... Even the worst SNF match up is worth watching, this has got to be one of the best years for SNF

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Knee jerk reaction:

Russell Wilson was carried to the SB by a strong supporting cast.

Tom Brady carries his supporting cast to annual SB contention.

BIG difference.

 

[iapatsfan]

Jokes on you, because BOTH of those players are ultimately irrelevent in this 2018 offensive-based NFL!

Even JJ Watt in his prime couldnt dent the Pats on offense. Defense just doesnt matter against the truly elite offenses/QBs

Defense doesn't matter? The Pats just gave up 31 points to a JAG QB, backup RB and a far below avg WR core.

I truly think people are underestimating how bad the Jags offense is, and they just made the Pats D look horrible.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I miss Gruden, his stupidity in the booth was entertaining.

Those announcers are awful.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Defense doesn't matter? The Pats just gave up 31 points to a JAG QB, backup RB and a far below avg WR core.

I truly think people are underestimating how bad the Jags offense is, and they just made the Pats D look horrible.

Everyone concedes the point that the Patriots defense did not have a good day. On the other hand the Jaguars offense is not as bad as you are describing them to be. Teams grow and improve. Even teams we do not like. Let's see how they do against a wide variety of opponents.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

He wanted to go home to Chicago. Only way we keep him is a massive overpay.

I support the Pats cap management but Akeem Hicks is one example of where BB's "value calculator" was wrong. We really could have used Hicks the last few years and he would have earned his money.

 

[iapatsfan]

Everyone concedes the point that the Patriots defense did not have a good day. On the other hand the Jaguars offense is not as bad as you are describing them to be. Teams grow and improve. Even teams we do not like. Let's see how they do against a wide variety of opponents.

It's beyond not "having a good day". The defense as currently configured does not have the personnel to defend sideline to sideline, even against an avg offense like Jacksonville. The defensive team speed is awful, and any OC worth a grain of salt will be able to exploit it. Have you ever seen an NFL QB as comfortable and care-free as Bortles on Sunday.

Big slow DL + Big slow LB + Aging past their prime safeties = What you saw vs. Jax.

I don't know what happened to Hightower, but this is two games in a row where he was the slowest guy on the field. In the past I have been dreading the day of the inevitable HT injury, and while I do not wish injury on him whatsoever, I am not the slightest bit concerned about him missing time. He contributes nothing right now.

I have no idea what Grigsby can do, but if he can run I'd like to see him out there. As odd as it sounds, I was actually impressed with M Flowers last year when he earned time. It was weird watching a Pats LB who can run. I'd also like them to look into Deone Bucannon with the Cardinals. I don't know what the Cards have planned for him after his contract is up at the end of the year, but he seems like a player the Pats could absolutely use.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

It's beyond not "having a good day". The defense as currently configured does not have the personnel to defend sideline to sideline, even against an avg offense like Jacksonville.

My point is wait a few weeks. You suggest that Jacksonville has a weak offense and that may be true and it may not be true.