Mock drafts - Rang and Reuter

[dryheat44]

NEXT in the NFL & NFL DRAFT: 5 Text Messages from NFL Scouts

Tebow is a first round pick for, at best, one franchise...Jacksonville. And if so, it won't be for his on-field play.

 

[Warren94]

I think we can get a guard in round 2. My personal favorites are Johnson from Alabama, Pouncey, and Asamoah from Illinois.

I think whether on the offensive or defensive side of the ball this team needs to hit some tape measure shots as far as players who can come in and give the offense or defense a needed lift.

 

[The Coon]

Frankly I hate any draft that doesn't have a QB first off the board going to the Rams. The Rams have no quarterback. You cannot win in this league without someone at quarterback. You have more chance of finding a credible DT in the next round than you do a QB. Not going to happen.

They have an ok offensive line, now draft a QB (Clausen or Bradford) and get working on that defense with every other pick.


This is, of course, an assumption that they draft sanely. But there's only one team that I won't assume will do that...the Raiders.

Just because you dont have a quarterback doensnt mean that they have to draft one with the #1 pick. Our top 2 qbs consist of a 6th rounder and an undrafted FA. Its clear to me that the rams need everything but a RB, mine as well take the best player available.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Mocks are fun but the 1st round is all about value and not need.
Did anyone have us taking Wilfork or Mankins ... who knew Wilfork would even be there?

 

[cstjohn17]

Tebow is a first round pick for, at best, one franchise...Jacksonville. And if so, it won't be for his on-field play.

What about a second round pick? team in question has 3 second rounders

 

[Brady to Brown]

What about a second round pick? team in question has 3 second rounders

I would use all 3 2nd rounders and the 1st rounder to move up and grab 2 play makers.

 

[mayoclinic]

I would use all 3 2nd rounders and the 1st rounder to move up and grab 2 play makers.

We should be able to move up into the late teens with 42 and 47 to grab a playmaker. If we get lucky and someone slips to 22, then we should be able to get 2 and still have #53.

 

[Nonentity]

I would use all 3 2nd rounders and the 1st rounder to move up and grab 2 play makers.

Disagree. We have plenty of holes to fill that fortunately can be filled in this draft. Unless we are taking elite 'once every 5 years' talent it's just not worth it. Free Agency is a mirage on the horizon - with the lack of UFAs every team will be competing for the same players.

 

[Metaphors]

We should be able to move up into the late teens with 42 and 47 to grab a playmaker. If we get lucky and someone slips to 22, then we should be able to get 2 and still have #53.

So there aren't going to be any playmakers in the 44-53 range?

From 2009:
44 Pat White
45 Clint Sintim
46 Connor Barwin
47 Michael Mitchell
48 Darcel McBath
49 Max Unger
50 Mohamed Massaquoi
51 Andy Levitre
52 David Veikune
53 LeSean McCoy

From 2008:
44 Matt Forté
45 Jordon Dizon
46 Jerome Simpson
47 Trevor Laws
48 Fred Davis
49 DeSean Jackson
50 Calais Campbell
51 Malcolm Kelly
52 Quentin Groves
53 Limas Sweed
As a bonus...
55 Ray Rice

From 2007 (a really bad draft class):
44 Sidney Rice
45 Dwayne Jarrett
46 LaMarr Woodley
47 David Harris
48 Justin Durant
49 Kenny Irons
50 Chris Henry
51 Steve Smith
52 Brian Leonard
53 Eric Wright

There are playmakers all over this area of the draft. Given that 2010 should be much deeper than the drafts I mentioned above, I expect the trend to continue.

The 2009 class is still developing, but Matt Forte, Desean Jackson, Ray Rice, Sidney Rice, LaMarr Woodley, David Harris, Steve Smith (NYG), Eric Wright. All playmakers. Outside of QB, S, K and P, the Pats could take playmakers at any of the other positions. Just sit back and let them fall to you in the 44-53 range. With 3 picks in that range, if you don't get a playmaker or two then you need to change your scouting...not your draft position.

 

[mayoclinic]

So there aren't going to be any playmakers in the 44-53 range?

From 2009:
44 Pat White
45 Clint Sintim
46 Connor Barwin
47 Michael Mitchell
48 Darcel McBath
49 Max Unger
50 Mohamed Massaquoi
51 Andy Levitre
52 David Veikune
53 LeSean McCoy

From 2008:
44 Matt Forté
45 Jordon Dizon
46 Jerome Simpson
47 Trevor Laws
48 Fred Davis
49 DeSean Jackson
50 Calais Campbell
51 Malcolm Kelly
52 Quentin Groves
53 Limas Sweed
As a bonus...
55 Ray Rice

From 2007 (a really bad draft class):
44 Sidney Rice
45 Dwayne Jarrett
46 LaMarr Woodley
47 David Harris
48 Justin Durant
49 Kenny Irons
50 Chris Henry
51 Steve Smith
52 Brian Leonard
53 Eric Wright

There are playmakers all over this area of the draft. Given that 2010 should be much deeper than the drafts I mentioned above, I expect the trend to continue.

The 2009 class is still developing, but Matt Forte, Desean Jackson, Ray Rice, Sidney Rice, LaMarr Woodley, David Harris, Steve Smith (NYG), Eric Wright. All playmakers. Outside of QB, S, K and P, the Pats could take playmakers at any of the other positions. Just sit back and let them fall to you in the 44-53 range. With 3 picks in that range, if you don't get a playmaker or two then you need to change your scouting...not your draft position.

There will probably be plenty of playmakers in the 2nd round, as there have been in past drafts. I addressed this in a recent thread on the 2nd round, giving examples such as LaMarr Woodley, Karlos Dansby, DeSean Jackson, Ray Rice and Maurice Jones-Drew.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/314811-second-rounders.html (see post #6)

There should be some very good playmakers in the 2nd round on both sides of the ball - guys like Jahvid Best, Golden Tate, Aaron Hernandez, Austen Lane, Greg Hardy, Jerry Hughes and Eric Norwood are some possibilities. I have no problem taking playmakers as they come. But I also have no problem trading up if we believe that an elite guy is within reach.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

There will probably be plenty of playmakers in the 2nd round, as there have been in past drafts. I addressed this in a recent thread on the 2nd round, giving examples such as LaMarr Woodley, Karlos Dansby, DeSean Jackson, Ray Rice and Maurice Jones-Drew.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/314811-second-rounders.html (see post #6)

There should be some very good playmakers in the 2nd round on both sides of the ball - guys like Jahvid Best, Golden Tate, Aaron Hernandez, Austen Lane, Greg Hardy, Jerry Hughes and Eric Norwood are some possibilities. I have no problem taking playmakers as they come. But I also have no problem trading up if we believe that an elite guy is within reach.

NFLDS now has Norwood falling to 3-4 range with the junior declarations.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I would use all 3 2nd rounders and the 1st rounder to move up and grab 2 play makers.

My thinking exactly. Impact play makers are hard to find and I think McClain is one that is too perfect a fit to pass up.

 

[mayoclinic]

NFL Draft - 2009 Mock Drafts - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

They actually have us drafting the same player - Odrick. And if the draft unfolds the way they have it, I think it's the right choice.

Here's a profile on Odrick from The Huddle Report:

Jared Odrick DT Penn St

TALENT BOARD -Round 3

STRENGTHS

Jared has good size to play his position. He shows potential athletic talent and seems to give good effort on every play. Jared has the respect of his opponents and is often double teamed. In the running game, offenses will run to the opposite side of the field of where he lines up. Jared's size and athletic ability make him a candidate to be a solid Defensive Lineman for the next level.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Jared doesn't use his hands at all and is easily handled one-on-one by the better guards at the college level right now. When he shoots the gap and gets into the backfield, he is often off-balance and struggles to make a tackle. He can be a disrupter in a one-gap system, but he seems to lack the true lateral agility to be a consistent run stuffer at this point of his career. When defending in the goal line situations and short yardage situations, Jared just throws a shoulder into his defender and pushes. His techniques are poor, and for a senior coming out with his overall talent, it is shocking and smacks of a lack of work ethic.

BOTTOM LINE

It's just this simple: Jared is overrated. It's quite surprising to me that he is even being considered as a possible first round pick in this draft. He has talent and could be a good defensive tackle in the future (if he works really hard). However, he is by no means an impact defensive tackle for the next level. Just because you show up and make a play every once in a while in a big game doesn't make you an impact player for the next level, at least not in my book. I don't draft potential solid defensive tackles in the first round just because they have excellent size, solid workout numbers and look good in their underwear. Personally, that crap doesn't impress me unless you are producing on the field and, at the college level, Jared has just been "OK" on the field -- unfortunately, certainly not enough to convince me to spend first round money on him.
Drew Boylhart 1/10
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/ppSD/protected/2010DRAFT/PlayerProfiles/Jared.Odrick.htm

I see no need to reach for this kind of a prospect at 22. Probably not in the 2nd round.

 

[mayoclinic]

Compare the Huddle Report's review of Odrick with 2 DT's of very different styles who I really like, Brian Price and Dan Williams.

First, Price:

[n]Brian Price DT UCLA

TALENT BOARD[/b] - Round 1

STRENGTHS

Brian has excellent athletic ability along with size and strength to play his position. He could play in a 4-3 defensive front or be a nose guard in a 3-4 defensive front. He has great lateral agility to shut down an opponent's running game. He's willing to do the dirty work and funnel plays to his teammates to make the tackles. Brian shows excellent quickness to rush the passer. He has good feet as well as balance and can be used in a 1-gap or 2-gap system as a run stuffer or pass rusher. Brian's ability to be able to play in any style defensive front as a pass rusher or run stuffer makes him worthy of being considered early in the first round.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Physical stamina is always a concern with players who are as big and as physical as Brian. Character is also an important consideration for first round draft candidates. Brian will have to have good workouts to convince some people of his talents -- not me, but others. When I watch Brian play, I see a player who has a strong personality to go along with his size, strength and versatility.

BOTTOM LINE

Brian looks to be a strong willed kid that plays football because it gives him the self-esteem that he needs to be successful. Some players play for money, some for the adulation of the fans -- Brian plays for respect. The respect of his peers, the fans, the press, and his coaches. Money will be a part of that respect, but it will not be everything. Brian shows leadership skills; just know that if you disrespect him, he will use those leadership skills to lead a team right down the field the wrong way. This kid has excellent talent and is the type of player you can build your defense around. He is not a boom or bust player as far as his play on the field. He is a boom or bust player if you do not respect him or if he has problems with how you coach him. This could make him very disruptive in the locker room. He reminds me a lot of Ted Washington, former DT for a number of championship teams. I believe after Brian works out, there will be teams in the top ten that will be interested in drafting him. Brian's athletic talents and ability to play in multiple defensive fronts as a pass rusher and run stuffer would be hard for me to pass up if I was a top ten team and needed a multi-talented Defensive Tackle. They are too hard to find with this type of talent.

Drew Boylhart 1/10
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/ppSD/protected/2010DRAFT/PlayerProfiles/Brian.Price.htm
At 6'2" 300# Price may be too short to be an effective 5-technique player for us, but I'd certainly take a closer look. I think it's a moot point though, as I think he will end up being a top 15 pick. I think the Giants would jump all over him at 15 if he lasts that long.

Next, Williams:

Dan Williams DT Tennessee

TALENT BOARD - Round 1


STRENGTHS

Dan is a big, strong Defensive Tackle with excellent foot speed and quickness for a player of his size. He has the strength to push the pocket when rushing the QB and the athletic talent to engage and shed his blocker and make a tackle when defending in the running game. Dan has the quickness to split a double team and get into the back field and disrupt the blocking assignments of any pulling offensive line. He can play in a one gap system or a two gap system. He can also play nose tackle in a 3-4 defense. Dan has some solid pass rushing moves and will get sacks from the defensive position. He has the talent to play DT in any style of defense. Dan reminds me a lot of Vince Wilfork (DT New England Patriots).

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Dan just needs to keep working as hard as he has this year to improve. He will need to work on his physical stamina for the next level. The more plays Dan is on the field, the more he will be able to impact. Dan has the abilities to be a hell of a DT for the team that drafts him.

BOTTOM LINE

Because of Dan's size and quickness and good lateral agility he can play multiple positions in any style of defense for you. I have no doubt that he could be a DE in a 3-4 defense also because of his quickness off the line and lateral agility. Dan is as close to a finished product that you can get at the college level for his position. He has the speed to catch most QB's from behind when they break the pocket, which is surprising for a person who is as large as he is. Let me tell you, when you see Dan on film start to chase down a QB from behind, it's like sitting on a boat and staring at a stunt plane as you think it is diving into the horizon when in all actuality, it just dove directly into the lake your boat was sitting on. It looks like it's all not happening in real time. That's why I call him Dan (Real Time) Williams because it looks like Dan is not playing in real time.

Drew Boylhart 11/0
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/ppSD/protected/2010DRAFT/PlayerProfiles/Dan.Williams.htm
I would seriously consider Williams at #22 depending on who else is available. We could plug him in at DE next to Wilfork day 1 in a Haloti Ngata kind of role, and I think our line would be markedly improved. He would also provide insurance in case Wilfork left, now or in a year. Teams before us that could consider him include Denver at 10/11, Jacksonville at 10/11, Miami at 12, Tennessee at 17, Pittsburgh at 18, and Houston at 20.

 

[MaineMan]

Just because you dont have a quarterback doensnt mean that they have to draft one with the #1 pick. Our top 2 qbs consist of a 6th rounder and an undrafted FA. Its clear to me that the rams need everything but a RB, mine as well take the best player available.

Well, there's also the fact that the 60% owners are desperately trying to sell their share of the team in order to avoid an inheritance tax bill roughly equivalent to Maine's annual state budget. Possessing the #1 overall pick is a huge value in that regard, but only until it's used. IOW, if they still own both the team and the pick come Draft Day (and are still trying to sell), they're confronted with an interesting choice. No matter who they pick at #1, they'll be saddling the business with a huge financial liability for six years - with no real guarantee of ROI in terms of increasing the franchise value (IOW, supporting their asking price). This could lead them to conclude that they're better off, under the circumstances, to trade down out of the #1 spot if they can. From our perspective, that may seem utterly stupid. But the only thing that ultimately matters is their perspective which may be diametrically different.

 

[MaineMan]

Getting back to Odrick . . . .

I haven't seen much love for Ciron Black as an LT and I tend to think he wouldn't be successful in the NFL at that spot, but could make a pretty decent starting RT. However, playing as a "second-rate" LT, IIRC, he pretty much controlled Odrick. Doesn't say much for Odrick.

 

[mayoclinic]

Getting back to Odrick . . . .

I haven't seen much love for Ciron Black as an LT and I tend to think he wouldn't be successful in the NFL at that spot, but could make a pretty decent starting RT. However, playing as a "second-rate" LT, IIRC, he pretty much controlled Odrick. Doesn't say much for Odrick.

I'm not even sure Black could play RT in the NFL. Some are projecting him to guard.

Here's what the Huddle Report had to say about Black:

Ciron Black OT LSU
TALENT BOARD - Round 5

STRENGTHS

Ciron is a wide load. He is tall and big and much larger than most (if not all) players he goes up against. He does an excellent job of leaning on and over the players he is up against when blocking. In the running game, he can stand straight up and hide a blocking fullback and a running back so that the linemen and linebackers trying to make a tackle cannot even locate them on the field for the first five yards. That's about all I have to say about Ciron!!!

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Ciron is out of shape. He has not developed his techniques as far as run blocking or pass blocking is concerned. You can't use him as a guard or a tackle as long as his weight is out of control and he continues to have no knowledge of the techniques that will be needed to be an average offensive lineman for the next level. At this point, I don't believe he can be used in a pulling system because of the lack of stamina and foot speed. Ciron does not show the quick feet needed to play in a zone blocking scheme either. Ciron has some athletic abilities, but they have not been developed. There is a pro offensive lineman someplace in there somewhere, but right now his size has covered for his lack of development; therefore, I cannot see the pro player yet.

BOTTOM LINE

This is where coaches need to show more in the way of caring about their student athletes with honest assessments of their current readiness for NFL play. I'm sure that Ciron has some good athletic talent, but to promote and suggest that this kid (just because of his size) is going to be a first round pick in a draft shows the lack of objectivity in some college coaching ranks. I don't totally blame Ciron. He is a kid who is being influenced into thinking that he is better than he is. These coaches are enabling this kid to get by on size by playing him at the Left tackle position. They are giving him the false sense that he is up to the task. The simple truth is that the coaches are not developing this kid as an athlete or as a person. Ciron, I wish you well and I hope with all of my heart that I am wrong about your ability to be drafted. The truth is, right now I don't see you being able to play right guard at the next level. You must lose weight and prove that you can get out of a three point stance first. Then you will have to learn the techniques needed to be an average guard. One thing everybody needs to understand when I profile a player for the draft is this: I will not blow smoke up anyone's hindquarters just because everyone else does. I hope this profile shocks this kid enough to prove me wrong. I don't like writing profiles like this. It bothers me, but I see what I see and I know what is occurring in this kid's situation is just wrong.

Drew Boylhart 11/09
http://www.thehuddlereport.com/ppSD/protected/2010DRAFT/PlayerProfiles/Ciron.Black.htm
Not a flattering review.

 

[MaineMan]

I'm not even sure Black could play RT in the NFL. Some are projecting him to guard.

Here's what the Huddle Report had to say about Black:

Ciron Black OT LSU
TALENT BOARD - Round 5

STRENGTHS

Ciron is a wide load. He is tall and big and much larger than most (if not all) players he goes up against. He does an excellent job of leaning on and over the players he is up against when blocking. In the running game, he can stand straight up and hide a blocking fullback and a running back so that the linemen and linebackers trying to make a tackle cannot even locate them on the field for the first five yards. That's about all I have to say about Ciron!!!

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Ciron is out of shape. He has not developed his techniques as far as run blocking or pass blocking is concerned. You can't use him as a guard or a tackle as long as his weight is out of control and he continues to have no knowledge of the techniques that will be needed to be an average offensive lineman for the next level. At this point, I don't believe he can be used in a pulling system because of the lack of stamina and foot speed. Ciron does not show the quick feet needed to play in a zone blocking scheme either. Ciron has some athletic abilities, but they have not been developed. There is a pro offensive lineman someplace in there somewhere, but right now his size has covered for his lack of development; therefore, I cannot see the pro player yet.

BOTTOM LINE

This is where coaches need to show more in the way of caring about their student athletes with honest assessments of their current readiness for NFL play. I'm sure that Ciron has some good athletic talent, but to promote and suggest that this kid (just because of his size) is going to be a first round pick in a draft shows the lack of objectivity in some college coaching ranks. I don't totally blame Ciron. He is a kid who is being influenced into thinking that he is better than he is. These coaches are enabling this kid to get by on size by playing him at the Left tackle position. They are giving him the false sense that he is up to the task. The simple truth is that the coaches are not developing this kid as an athlete or as a person. Ciron, I wish you well and I hope with all of my heart that I am wrong about your ability to be drafted. The truth is, right now I don't see you being able to play right guard at the next level. You must lose weight and prove that you can get out of a three point stance first. Then you will have to learn the techniques needed to be an average guard. One thing everybody needs to understand when I profile a player for the draft is this: I will not blow smoke up anyone's hindquarters just because everyone else does. I hope this profile shocks this kid enough to prove me wrong. I don't like writing profiles like this. It bothers me, but I see what I see and I know what is occurring in this kid's situation is just wrong.

Drew Boylhart 11/09

Not a flattering review.

WELL! When you put it THAT way!!

Seriously, I was having a really hard time last year when Black was often being projected for the late first/early second round if he'd declared. Kind of unreal that some big boards still have him going as high as the second this year. I was thinking he was more like a guy who could maybe be taken in the 3rd or 4th as a developmental project - by SOMEbody. We don't really have that luxury at this point.

The original point being, of course, that if Odrick can't get by Ciron Black most of the time, it's a pretty strong DIS-recommendation for Odrick.

 

[mayoclinic]

The original point being, of course, that if Odrick can't get by Ciron Black most of the time, it's a pretty strong DIS-recommendation for Odrick.

Yes, it certainly is.