MNF 12/12 Pre-game thread: Pats @ Arizona

[RobertWeathers]

MAC JONES SUCKS WE CANNOT WIN WITH HIM CONSISTENTLY! There.

How do you really feel?

 

[jdlboot14]

This season is over, let's admit the obvious.
it's not that the team/players can't gut out a couple more wins, but the way Bengals & Raiders have rebounded, I don't even know if we can beat them. And it seems highly unlikely we beat the Dolphins and Bills. This Cards game could be our last win of the season.
It's disappointing, but it seems things have to get pretty low for BB to recognize his current string of stupid decisions (mostly staff) can't continue.
I just hope they don't completely destroy Mac or our young/core skill players (Meyers, Henry, Smith, Thornton, Rham). And who knows if any of the other 3 WR will be back next season. What a waste of potential.
I think what will become known as "the Patricia year", will be looked at worse than the Cam Newton year.

 

[ashley]

MAC JONES SUCKS WE CANNOT WIN WITH HIM CONSISTENTLY! There.

Personally, I think the O-line is the bigger issue right now. I think if we surround Mac with a good line, we'll be a playoff team. We were last year and we didn't have the Offensive weapons or the defense we had this year. Also would probably help to have a "full time" O-coordinator.

I would put Matty back into a consulting role, behind the scenes.

 

[jdlboot14]

Personally, I think the O-line is the bigger issue right now. I think if we surround Mac with a good line, we'll be a playoff team. We were last year and we didn't have the Offensive weapons or the defense we had this year. Also would probably help to have a "full time" O-coordinator.

I would put Matty back into a consulting role, behind the scenes.

and who is the OL coach again??? Oh ya, Fat Matt - a Defensive coach.
It's ludicrous.

 

[PatsFan2]

How do you really feel?

BB is not playing the guy who gives us the best chance to win.

 

[Toofy]

Patsfans come up with some bold strategies. Hasn't been ugly enough for you this year you actually want to see it get worse.

Patience is a virtue

It's like you want to skip to the good part.

It doesn't work like that the better our guys play the better they are for it moving forward.

If we say get to 3-2 and bill convinces Kraft that the Patricia experiment is working and it is mac's fault and zappe would tear up next year and then spends some money on middling agents and then we go 5- 12 in 2023 with Zappe with reduced cap space in 2024 and also having runined both Mac and zappe through Patricia and Judge.


At that point we are getting into broncos Russel Wilson territory.


Better to nip it in bud and clip bills powers . He hasn't demonstrated anything in last 3 years to continue to wield that level of influence. When we can let go of GOAT QB , no point being emotional about coach after 4 no post season wins.

We need to go in different direction and we need to offer a fresh slate to whoever is coming in.

 

[ashley]

and who is the OL coach again??? Oh ya, Fat Matt - a Defensive coach.
It's ludicrous.

I would promote the fat body they have behind Matty now and move Patricia into a "behind the scenes" role, kind of like Ernie Adams.

 

[signbabybrady]

If we say get to 3-2 and bill convinces Kraft that the Patricia experiment is working and it is mac's fault and zappe would tear up next year and then spends some money on middling agents and then we go 5- 12 in 2023 with Zappe with reduced cap space in 2024 and also having runined both Mac and zappe through Patricia and Judge.


At that point we are getting into broncos Russel Wilson territory.


Better to nip it in bud and clip bills powers . He hasn't demonstrated anything in last 3 years to continue to wield that level of influence. When we can let go of GOAT QB , no point being emotional about coach after 4 no post season wins.

We need to go in different direction and we need to offer a fresh slate to whoever is coming in.

 

[RobertWeathers]

BB is not playing the guy who gives us the best chance to win.

Last 4 games Mac is completing 70% of his passes with 0 picks and a 101.5 Qb rating.

You are blaming the wrong person.

 

[JMC00]

Patience is a virtue

I have patience. But with an nfl caliber OC and OL coach this team would probably be 8-4 maybe 9-3.

 

[PatsFan2]

Last 4 games Mac is completing 70% of his passes with 0 picks and a 101.5 Qb rating.

You are blaming the wrong person.

You can't be serious.

 

[Rob0729]

The game plan to beat NE is simple. The last 2 games are virtually the same.

1 - Stopping the Pats run game is job # 1. The Vikings stepped up and did a marvelous job shutting down NEs offensive strength which are the RBs. Vs the Bills, the Pats were already playing on 1 leg without Harris. Regardless, the Bills did not allow the Pats run game to flourish.

2 - Force Mac Jones to beat you. Weve seen the Bill Belichick Patriots do this to countless other hapless NFL QBs over the last 2 decades. Now, the tables have been turned and the view from this end aint pretty. The NE offense struggles to score and cannot sustain drives. The NE Punter gets plenty of practice and Bailey and Palardy are having bad seasons.

3 - The NE defense is continually back on the field. Hence, Time of Possession eventfully ends up being grossly in favor of the opponent thus wearing down the NE defense to dust.

Settling for 3 is better than nothing, but its still digging yourself a grave vs a powerful scoring team. There are too many Patriot wins to count where the other team settle for FGs while the Patriots scored TDs. Typically, when a defense holds another offense to 3 points its seen as a victory.

Stopping the run isn't hard when Patricia doesn't call running plays. The Pats ran 14 times vs the Bills. Against the Vikings they ran 13 times. Stevenson had 5.1 YPC vs the Vikes and 5.4 YPC vs the Bills and ran it for a combined 17 times in those two games. Other teams don't need to stop the Patriots from running the ball. Patricia takes care of that just fine on his own.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You can't be serious.

Are you? To not lay at least 75% of the blame of this crap offense at the feet of Fat Matt and the Oline is misguided.

Look at the playcalling. Look at the game management. Look at the production last year. What changed?

 

[Rob0729]

The most underplayed criticism of Patricia's god awful play calling is since Harris went down, he has all but given up on the running game all together. Stevenson has caught two less passes the last two weeks (15 receptions) than running attempts (17 attempts).

 

[crawhammer]

Last 4 games Mac is completing 70% of his passes with 0 picks and a 101.5 Qb rating.

You are blaming the wrong person.

They won back to back games with the opposition scoring 6 combined points. Mac wasn't good in several key situations vs Minnesota and he was bad against Buffalo. The team has a lot of problems, so it's not all about Mac, but he's one of the problems too.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

BB is not playing the guy who gives us the best chance to win.

Lets say Zappe somehow has a higher ceiling than Mac. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day if he's some marginal upgrade, which I really don't think you can affirmatively say, because the offensive line isn't healthy and/or playing like utter dog****, and the offensive play calling sucks.

Fix the OL, replace Patricia, then assess from that point.

 

[crawhammer]

Look at the playcalling. Look at the game management. Look at the production last year. What changed?

Mac was bad last season after week 13. Five collectively bad games with McDaniels. Don't get me wrong, Patricia is a huge problem, but Mac hasn't been playing well since last December.

 

[PatsFan2]

Lets say Zappe somehow has a higher ceiling than Mac. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day if he's some marginal upgrade, which I really don't think you can affirmatively say, because the offensive line isn't healthy and/or playing like utter dog****, and the offensive play calling sucks.

Fix the OL, replace Patricia, then assess from that point.

That's it right there.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They won back to back games with the opposition scoring 6 combined points. Mac wasn't good in several key situations vs Minnesota and he was bad against Buffalo. The team has a lot of problems, so it's not all about Mac, but he's one of the problems too.

Hes a 2nd year QB who was injured, has **** for coaching and a sieve for an o-line.

You need to give the 15th pick in the 1st round every opportunity to be successful.

The NEP have done the opposite.

The fact that 1/2 the board is ready to dump him based on the current set of circumstances is absurd. Zero patience. Typical.

 

[crawhammer]

Hes a 2nd year QB who was injured, has **** for coaching and a sieve for an o-line.

The fact that 1/2 the board is ready to dump him based on the current set of circumstances is absurd.

He's not passing the eye or gut test either. I agree he's not getting much help in certain areas. But he has a strong complimentary running game and good receivers. His decision making and general awareness just looks really off this season. Things looked cleaner with Zappe for whatever reasons. I'm not convinced Zappe is the long term answer but I would go back to him for the remainder of this season right now. I'd probably be inclined to look for a veteran FA upgrade at quarterback heading into camp next season and consider trading Mac while holding onto to Zappe as the backup (and possibly the future quarterback). Sticking with Mac for this season and beyond shouldn't be considered a disaster at this point but there's legitimate doubt he can be a true franchise quarterback.