Mike Giardi: The offense was so beat up this time last year, that they could not run a full practice

[scott99]

Missing 3/5's of our Super Bowl Oline, missing our top 2 RB's (Blount and Lewis, AND our FB James Develin), JE playing at 50%, those things alone make it a miracle the Pats even made it to the playoffs. Add in all the other major injuries, and they still came within a field goal of going to the Super Bowl. Amazing mentally tough team.

 

[The Brandon Five]

No one else pointed this out until after the game. There are a lot of things going on during a game at the college level, let alone pro. Each coach has a lot to do and there is a lot of thinking and observing that got on.

So BB and the other coaches are busy. But, ultimately, you're right. Between Googs, McD, BB, Daboll, O'Shea, Frears and so on, someone should have picked this up. So maybe there was more to it than that.

I kept thinking that Denver had to be getting away with jumping offside. Miller was by the tackle before the ball was in Tom's hands sometimes.

 

[AzorianPats]

That still doesn't explain the head-bobbing thing not being fixed for the Denver game, allowing them to tee off on the O-line and Brady.

They explained that 2 days after the AFCC when they let go of Gooch

 

[bbobbo]

regarding the stork head bob, i actually tried to take a look at this after the game by analyzing every patriots snap frame-by-frame. unfortunately, it took me a long time, so i only got a third of the way through. from the 31 plays i analyzed (out of 93 total patriots plays), there wasn't any discernable pattern i could see.

my methodology:

1. view each play a few seconds before the snap
2. note the game situation--down & distance, under center (UC) or shotgun, play clock when the ball was snapped, result of play, QB pocket
   
3. note the snap pattern (see below)
   
4. measure the time that stork's head was in the down position
   
5. measure the time from when stork's head was fully up to the start of the snap motion

there were three different snap patterns:

DOWN-UP-PAUSE-SNAP (used 20 times)
DOWN-UP-SNAP (used 5 times; the snap was simultaneous to raising the head)
UP-SNAP (used 1 time; stork's head started from the down position)

the numbers below the "Down" and "Pause" are the number of television frames; there are about 30 frames-per-second, so divide that number by 30 to get the time in seconds. the "Down" period varied from 6 seconds to 0.2 seconds; the "Pause" period varied from 0.6 seconds to 0.03 seconds.

in the 31 plays i charted, there were 20 plays that were either a pass, a scramble, or a sack. of those 20 plays, there was 1 sack, 3 knockdowns, 1 hit, 5 pressures, and 10 clean throws.

some things i notice:

1. i can't discern any pattern in the snap, either the pattern or the timing. maybe that changes in the last 60 plays.
2. the pressure starts almost immediately, from the 5th patriots snap; it's doubtful they picked up any "tells" that quickly
3. most plays were snapped with less than 10 seconds left on the play clock; the closer the play clock approaches 0, the easier it is for the defense to anticipate the snap
4. there were only 6 run plays; lack of a run game allowed denver to play the pass

maybe one day i can complete the analysis. you can see what i did below:

 

[patfanken]

INJURIES were involved????????? I've been told by Mike Felger all this past off season and into this one that the reason the Pats lost the Superbowl last season was because Bill Bellichick's arrogance in not trying to win one of the last 2 games of the season. This meme has been echoed by mediots and fans here for the last 6 months. NOW you tell me that there were injuries involved as well.

Of course it was all about the injuries last season. We've seen how injuries derailed the Ravens, SD, and other teams this season. We see how injuries derail most teams EVERY season. What we DON'T see is injuries seem to derail the Patriots, even when they make thing very difficult. Just another reason why haters think we are cheating.

Great coaching and spectacular planning make this franchise the exception in every way. The fact BB got that team to the AFCCG last season was easily his best coaching job. No other coach in the league gets his team to the top half of the draft with those injuries, let alone to the league's final 4

 

[n1997y]

That still doesn't explain the head-bobbing thing not being fixed for the Denver game, allowing them to tee off on the O-line and Brady.

Probably didn't have any head-bobbing during the walkthrus

 

[woolster22]

regarding the stork head bob, i actually tried to take a look at this after the game by analyzing every patriots snap frame-by-frame. unfortunately, it took me a long time, so i only got a third of the way through. from the 31 plays i analyzed (out of 93 total patriots plays), there wasn't any discernable pattern i could see.

my methodology:

1. view each play a few seconds before the snap
2. note the game situation--down & distance, under center (UC) or shotgun, play clock when the ball was snapped, result of play, QB pocket
   
3. note the snap pattern (see below)
   
4. measure the time that stork's head was in the down position
   
5. measure the time from when stork's head was fully up to the start of the snap motion

there were three different snap patterns:

DOWN-UP-PAUSE-SNAP (used 20 times)
DOWN-UP-SNAP (used 5 times; the snap was simultaneous to raising the head)
UP-SNAP (used 1 time; stork's head started from the down position)

the numbers below the "Down" and "Pause" are the number of television frames; there are about 30 frames-per-second, so divide that number by 30 to get the time in seconds. the "Down" period varied from 5 seconds to 0.2 seconds; the "Pause" period varied from 0.6 seconds to 0.03 seconds.

in the 31 plays i charted, there were 20 plays that were either a pass, a scramble, or a sack. of those 20 plays, there was 1 sack, 3 knockdowns, 1 hit, 5 pressures, and 10 clean throws.

some things i notice:

1. i can't discern any pattern in the snap, either the pattern or the timing. maybe that changes in the last 60 plays.
2. the pressure starts almost immediately, from the 5th patriots snap; it's doubtful they picked up any "tells" that quickly
3. most plays were snapped with less than 10 seconds left on the play clock; the closer the play clock approaches 0, the easier it is for the defense to anticipate the snap
4. there were only 6 run plays; lack of a run game allowed denver to play the pass

maybe one day i can complete the analysis. you can see what i did below:

Half a second isnt enough variance, is the issue. And taking a look at your chart, the snap either came immediately after (1-5 frames) or approximately 1/2 a second after. This allows the d to be geared up for the quick snap, or the ability to jump it at that 1/2 second interval.

 

[deroc5050]

I think most of us knew the Pats were banged up. They were afraid to get more people hurt, so they ran it with Stephen Jackson 27 times vs Miami. There really was no other explanation.

I am just surprised Denver actually beat Carolina last year. They literally had no offense.. it was a boring Super Bowl last year but I gotta hand it to Denvers defense for getting it done.

 

[deroc5050]

INJURIES were involved????????? I've been told by Mike Felger all this past off season and into this one that the reason the Pats lost the Superbowl last season was because Bill Bellichick's arrogance in not trying to win one of the last 2 games of the season. This meme has been echoed by mediots and fans here for the last 6 months. NOW you tell me that there were injuries involved as well.

Of course it was all about the injuries last season. We've seen how injuries derailed the Ravens, SD, and other teams this season. We see how injuries derail most teams EVERY season. What we DON'T see is injuries seem to derail the Patriots, even when they make thing very difficult. Just another reason why haters think we are cheating.

Great coaching and spectacular planning make this franchise the exception in every way. The fact BB got that team to the AFCCG last season was easily his best coaching job. No other coach in the league gets his team to the top half of the draft with those injuries, let alone to the league's final 4

Well they were healthy through the first 8 games. And they started 10-0 so they had a pretty good sized cushion.. 1 week we lost Dion Lewis.. The next week we lost Edelman.. that right there was like 60% of our skilled position players. We lost Gronk for a game and then we lost Blount.. we lost some O line men.. By week 13 we were running thin. Not to mention even the O linement that were playing were banged up. Marcus Cannon had a toe injury and was playing.. that might not seem like much but that guy is like 350 pounds and it probably effected his first step alot.

Our offense over the last 4 games looked horrible last season.. and it wasn't until the KC playoff game when Julian came back onto the field... did I take a huge deep breath and say ok.. the Pats have a chance.

You can win a Super Bowl with Julian Edelman and Gronk alone.. we almost saw it last year. This year its seems like we have everyone except for Gronk and while we might not score as well in the red zone, we are obviously better suited to win the Super Bowl this year.

 

[Joey007]

And so . . . a new strength and conditioning coach and now . . . the Pats have 5 players on PUP/IR. I wonder . . .

I know a guy who is a Packer fan, and they've been ravished with injuries the last couple of years. He thinks it's all just bad luck. Of course, while injuries being unavoidable is true to an extent, I do think that injury riddled teams like Green Bay have fundamental issues with their conditioning.

Perhaps we had the same issues last year, and fixed them.

 

[TomPatriot]

I know a guy who is a Packer fan, and they've been ravished with injuries the last couple of years. He thinks it's all just bad luck. Of course, while injuries being unavoidable is true to an extent, I do think that injury riddled teams like Green Bay have fundamental issues with their conditioning.

Perhaps we had the same issues last year, and fixed them.

That's what I think. But it's just speculation on my part.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

That's what I think. But it's just speculation on my part.

I wouldn't call it a coincidence. The Patriots wanted to improve how they managed the health of their roster... which is one main reason why they had far fewer players on IR

Mike Reiss wrote about this earlier this season

Bill Belichick pleased with 'significant improvement' on health of roster

• Moses Cabrera was elevated to head strength and conditioning coach, with James Hardy hired as his assistant.
• Full-padded practices have mostly been moved from Wednesday to Thursday, giving players an extra day after Sunday games before absorbing contact.
• Lightening the load on players in practice -- and sometimes not having players practice at all -- when GPS tracking data worn in players’ practice jerseys indicates they could benefit from a reduction.
• Adopting rotations at certain positions in games to limit higher snap counts while also building depth. This has always been part of the approach to some degree.
  

 

[Tony2046]

I wouldn't call it a coincidence. The Patriots wanted to improve how they managed the health of their roster... which is one main reason why they had far fewer players on IR

Mike Reiss wrote about this earlier this season

Bill Belichick pleased with 'significant improvement' on health of roster

• Moses Cabrera was elevated to head strength and conditioning coach, with James Hardy hired as his assistant.
• Full-padded practices have mostly been moved from Wednesday to Thursday, giving players an extra day after Sunday games before absorbing contact.
• Lightening the load on players in practice -- and sometimes not having players practice at all -- when GPS tracking data worn in players’ practice jerseys indicates they could benefit from a reduction.
• Adopting rotations at certain positions in games to limit higher snap counts while also building depth. This has always been part of the approach to some degree.

I heard something like that on the radio (I think) the other day. Anyways thanks for the post as I missed most of the discussion.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I wouldn't call it a coincidence. The Patriots wanted to improve how they managed the health of their roster... which is one main reason why they had far fewer players on IR

Mike Reiss wrote about this earlier this season

Bill Belichick pleased with 'significant improvement' on health of roster

• Moses Cabrera was elevated to head strength and conditioning coach, with James Hardy hired as his assistant.
• Full-padded practices have mostly been moved from Wednesday to Thursday, giving players an extra day after Sunday games before absorbing contact.
• Lightening the load on players in practice -- and sometimes not having players practice at all -- when GPS tracking data worn in players’ practice jerseys indicates they could benefit from a reduction.
• Adopting rotations at certain positions in games to limit higher snap counts while also building depth. This has always been part of the approach to some degree.

Re: GPS it's pretty cool stuff. There are a number of products out there. This just one. I think fmr RB Sammy Morris is part of the training Dept now and is the admin for this.

SPT

 

[goheels22002]

That still doesn't explain the head-bobbing thing not being fixed for the Denver game, allowing them to tee off on the O-line and Brady.

C'mon. The 2015 Patriots offensive line was a mess. They started 13 different line combinations in 16 games - most in the NFL. According to MMQB the Patriots used 39 different OL lineups while the Vikings used the same 5 guys in the same position for all but 14 plays. The context of this is so very important.

People want to blame Deguglielmo, but he was tremendously handicapped by the injuries and guys playing out of position. Bryan Stork played center, guard and tackle last year, and we found out he had a broken arm at the end of the season.

I read and heard what Matt Light said, and factor that in, but this stuff all goes together. Throw in the loss of Blount, Boldena and Lewis in the backfield, and as others have said, it's still amazing how far they got last year.

Whatever, this year looks so fortunately different.

 

[goheels22002]

That can be explained by Googs being a ****ty coach and Stork being a moron.

Easy on Bryan Stork. He was great as a rookie in the SB winning 2014 season. He suffered concussion and neck injuries so that his career was limited to less than two full seasons.

It's sad, really, and I wish the best for him.

Bryan Stork - Wikipedia

 

[RobertWeathers]

Easy on Bryan Stork. He was great as a rookie in the SB winning 2014 season. He suffered concussion and neck injuries so that his career was limited to less than two full seasons.

It's sad, really, and I wish the best for him.

Bryan Stork - Wikipedia

Y'know...You are right to call me out on that.

I had some back n forth with a couple of posters on this topic and part of me began to wonder if there was something cognitive going on with Stork that game. Wonder if that played into the snap issues. If that was the case, why the hell didn't they put Andrews in?

Just so unlike this team not to account for that kind of detail.

 

[libra957]

Until proven otherwise you may even say we're one Rob Gronkowski play away from being champion this year

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Until proven otherwise you may even say we're one Rob Gronkowski play away from being champion this year

Of course...that's a given

Despite in-season losses in talent, our defense is playing more cohesively as a unit despite losing Collins, while our offense is showing the quality of its depth by playing better than it ever has before when Gronk has gone down in the past.

But if neither is sufficient to win us a Super Bowl, then we'll inevitably point back to these two players and question whether their presence might've helped.

We shall see....we shall see

 

[TomPatriot]

I wouldn't call it a coincidence. The Patriots wanted to improve how they managed the health of their roster... which is one main reason why they had far fewer players on IR

Mike Reiss wrote about this earlier this season

Bill Belichick pleased with 'significant improvement' on health of roster

• Moses Cabrera was elevated to head strength and conditioning coach, with James Hardy hired as his assistant.
• Full-padded practices have mostly been moved from Wednesday to Thursday, giving players an extra day after Sunday games before absorbing contact.
• Lightening the load on players in practice -- and sometimes not having players practice at all -- when GPS tracking data worn in players’ practice jerseys indicates they could benefit from a reduction.
• Adopting rotations at certain positions in games to limit higher snap counts while also building depth. This has always been part of the approach to some degree.

Wow. Never saw this. Good catch!