Mayock says Vollmer's perfomance was overhyped

[Deus Irae]

Exactly. The spin move he highlighted was the one play where I saw Vollmer with bad technique. The misleading part of this is that Vollmer "had" help...not that Vollmer "got" help or even "needed" help. He could have shown about 20 snaps where Freeney tried an outside rush and Vollmer escorted him around the pocket and put him on the ground. Supporting this, Brady never set the pocket too deep and was quick to step up, so the plan was obviously to funnel Freeney and Mathis outside.

Rather than focus on help, he should focus on what Vollmer actually did. He got into his set quickly and almost never let Freeney get into his pads. That one spin move was awful (pads too high and didn't keep his feet under him) but I'll chalk that one up to a lack of concentration. Something for him to work on so that it never happens in the playoffs. It is OK to get physically beat occasionally, but can't lose focus or bad things happen.

It's a lot easier to look good when you're getting help, especially when it comes to slowing down speed rushers.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Exactly. The spin move he highlighted was the one play where I saw Vollmer with bad technique. The misleading part of this is that Vollmer "had" help...not that Vollmer "got" help or even "needed" help. He could have shown about 20 snaps where Freeney tried an outside rush and Vollmer escorted him around the pocket and put him on the ground. Supporting this, Brady never set the pocket too deep and was quick to step up, so the plan was obviously to funnel Freeney and Mathis outside.

Rather than focus on help, he should focus on what Vollmer actually did. He got into his set quickly and almost never let Freeney get into his pads. That one spin move was awful (pads too high and didn't keep his feet under him) but I'll chalk that one up to a lack of concentration. Something for him to work on so that it never happens in the playoffs. It is OK to get physically beat occasionally, but can't lose focus or bad things happen.

Thing is Matt Light has always gotten physically beat on occasion, particularly by speed rushers, and required help, and more recently increasingly loses focus and bad things have happened as a result. Assessing Vollmer's performance in this setting can only be accomplished by assessing that of the guy he replaced. The guy drawing pro bowl votes again this year because fan's recognize his name as Brady's vaunted by association LT and have no clue who Mannings's is (not their fault though since Peyton may not know that for sure this season either...and lots of good LT's are stuck fronting bad QB's). A case could easily be made that if this entire OL since 2002 had been asked to continue fronting Drew Bledsoe or some other QB absent Brady's deft pocket presence, somebody might be dead and they all might be wearing suits or working construction by now.

Dante has done a tremendous job coaching all of them up. Given Vollmer's combination of size and agility and apparently brains since he's slid into the starting roll as a rookie and passed every test to date, he should represent an upgrade going forward. Considering the hype Mike and others heep on draft picks who have yet to set foot on an NFL field and so often fail to pan out, it's almost comical to see him attempting to de-hype a player who is actually starting and succeeding in the NFL...

 

[BionicPatriot]

Thing is Matt Light has always gotten physically beat on occasion, particularly by speed rushers, and required help, and more recently increasingly loses focus and bad things have happened as a result. Assessing Vollmer's performance in this setting can only be accomplished by assessing that of the guy he replaced. The guy drawing pro bowl votes again this year because fan's recognize his name as Brady's vaunted by association LT and have no clue who Mannings's is (not their fault though since Peyton may not know that for sure this season either...and lots of good LT's are stuck fronting bad QB's). A case could easily be made that if this entire OL since 2002 had been asked to continue fronting Drew Bledsoe or some other QB absent Brady's deft pocket presence, somebody might be dead and they all might be wearing suits or working construction by now.

Dante has done a tremendous job coaching all of them up. Given Vollmer's combination of size and agility and apparently brains since he's slid into the starting roll as a rookie and passed every test to date, he should represent an upgrade going forward. Considering the hype Mike and others heep on draft picks who have yet to set foot on an NFL field and so often fail to pan out, it's almost comical to see him attempting to de-hype a player who is actually starting and succeeding in the NFL...

Exactly. Every time I used to see Light dismnatle Freeney he almost always had Graham who was a freaking bear at blocking people helping him out. It's not like your talking about Orlando Pace here, we're comparing Vollmer to Matt Light. Sure he's been good, but Matt Light on any other team isn't nearly as hyped up as he is on the Pats. He just doesn't have what it takes to be an elite tackle, you can always count on him every game it seems to give up a free sack.

I'm all for Vollmer going forward. Chalk me up as not worried about the kid. I could see if he was a 6 year vet constantly getting help like Light, but his first game against Freeney on that turf? I'll take that every time.

 

[WhiZa]

sounds like bulletin board material

 

[HarkDawg]

bull.....


he got beat twice..... non of which resulted in a Brady sack

 

[HarkDawg]

this is a rush heavy team and no sacks came from the left side........

 

[HarkDawg]

I think the Pats should consider drafting a guard early next year, maybe 2nd round even. Whenever Neal gets hurt the protection up the middle seems to suffer a lot.

that and we need legit DE's to pass rush

 

[HarkDawg]

this is the Vollmer we saw vs. Indy

he got help sometimes.... but the majority??? hell no... terrible analysis Mayock


YouTube - Sebastian Vollmer - New England Patriots - Draft Video Profile



Counter Argument

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMT_B5555lw

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Thing is Matt Light has always gotten physically beat on occasion, particularly by speed rushers, and required help, and more recently increasingly loses focus and bad things have happened as a result. Assessing Vollmer's performance in this setting can only be accomplished by assessing that of the guy he replaced. The guy drawing pro bowl votes again this year because fan's recognize his name as Brady's vaunted by association LT and have no clue who Mannings's is (not their fault though since Peyton may not know that for sure this season either...and lots of good LT's are stuck fronting bad QB's). A case could easily be made that if this entire OL since 2002 had been asked to continue fronting Drew Bledsoe or some other QB absent Brady's deft pocket presence, somebody might be dead and they all might be wearing suits or working construction by now.

Dante has done a tremendous job coaching all of them up. Given Vollmer's combination of size and agility and apparently brains since he's slid into the starting roll as a rookie and passed every test to date, he should represent an upgrade going forward. Considering the hype Mike and others heep on draft picks who have yet to set foot on an NFL field and so often fail to pan out, it's almost comical to see him attempting to de-hype a player who is actually starting and succeeding in the NFL...

Unfortunately, this is really standard. Mayock was Cutler's biggest advocate in 2006 and continues to be his biggest ball washer. He has yet to even acknowledge that McDaniels might have been maybe a wee bit correct.

Likewise, SeeBass got a collective "Huh?" on the draft day broadcast. Seems perfectly logical to "de-hype" a guy obviously didn't see.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

YouTube - Sebastian Vollmer had help on Freeney 36 out of 44 passing attempts


Yeah, I don't know. Mayock claims to have charted every Pats passing attempt. Kind of lame if you ask me. I'm sure Collinsworth would beg to differ......

Mayock also supported Bill for going for it on 4 and 2, so I'm sure he's not saying this unless he thinks he's right. Who cares if Vollmer had help? He's a rook and freeney an all-pro. end of the day is you have to stop Freeney whether you double, triple, or quadruple team him. Unfortunately that left Mathis one on one with Kaczur for most of the game.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Mayock also supported Bill for going for it on 4 and 2, so I'm sure he's not saying this unless he thinks he's right. Who cares if Vollmer had help? He's a rook and freeney an all-pro. end of the day is you have to stop Freeney whether you double, triple, or quadruple team him. Unfortunately that left Mathis one on one with Kaczur for most of the game.

Mike is a bright guy but in the last year as his profile skyrocketed it's become increasingly difficult to miss the developing ego and diminished humility where his assessments are concerned. Turns a blind eye to the failed players he touted and cops an attitude about the success of those he missed or dissed. He's almost come to fisticuffs with some of his set mates...

As for Kaczur, he had help too, just not enough to avoid a sack and a fumble we luckily recovered (although on that drive we therefore had to settle for a FG as a result...).

 

[mystrymaster]

I saw that, however that means there was 8 times he was one on one on Freeney. Most tackles in the league lose that battle 4 times. I think he lsot it once or twice as I saw Freeney close on 2-3 plays.

His performance can not be overhyped at all. Freeney is a monster and I thought your Rookie was going to get eaten alive.

Any time you can finish the game and you can think Freeney looked pedestrian you win.

Remember The world beater Jonathon Ogden? How silly did Freeney make him look? and on top of that I think Freeney is playing the best right now in his entire career.

Vollmer did a hell of a job and should be commended for it.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Well, there we go...if the OPPOSITION thinks he did a great job....then....well....

He did a great job!

 

[Metaphors]

The thing that impresses me is that he is taking guys completely out of the play. Not only is he engaging defenders but he is disposing of them. They don't hang around and eventually get tackles or QB hits.

 

[HarkDawg]

I saw that, however that means there was 8 times he was one on one on Freeney. Most tackles in the league lose that battle 4 times. I think he lsot it once or twice as I saw Freeney close on 2-3 plays.

His performance can not be overhyped at all. Freeney is a monster and I thought your Rookie was going to get eaten alive.

Any time you can finish the game and you can think Freeney looked pedestrian you win.

Remember The world beater Jonathon Ogden? How silly did Freeney make him look? and on top of that I think Freeney is playing the best right now in his entire career.

Vollmer did a hell of a job and should be commended for it.

He is my boy that is why it did not happen

 

[sbpatfan]

Someone playing a team sport had help received help from his teammates? What the..

 

[HarkDawg]

Mayock also supported Bill for going for it on 4 and 2, so I'm sure he's not saying this unless he thinks he's right. Who cares if Vollmer had help? He's a rook and freeney an all-pro. end of the day is you have to stop Freeney whether you double, triple, or quadruple team him. Unfortunately that left Mathis one on one with Kaczur for most of the game.

so?? Mayock is still wrong about the ratio of double coverage at LT.

 

[farn]

Help or no help, Freeney was ineffective, and Vollmer was the key reason. I didn't think I'd be on his bandwagon so early in his career and I was reluctant to enshrine him when he was everyone's binky.

But... I have been impressed. People said he might struggle against the "speed rusher", being supposedly better suited to man up against strength. But you know, I feel pretty good about Vollmer becoming our everyday LT before I thought it would happen.

Let's put it this way : when Light returns, it'll be cool - but I wouldn't freak out if Vollmer had to be the guy.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Actually we lost because of them, helpers included. There was pressure from the edges but even worse pressure up the middle collapsing the pocket. Neal went out and his replacement as well as Koppen and Mankins got manhandled. It's easier to counter edge rushers. You won't stop 'em every time but if you stop them 85% of the time you still allow Brady and the receivers to perform. Collapse his pocket entirely and all bets are off.

Well said! My thoughts exactly. Edges were prime concern, through middle your done and it changes "O" philosophy.

 

[billdog3484]

so in the other 8 games freeney played, the LT wasnt given help?