Maye must play

[PatsFan2]

Ugh. Maye outplayed him but brissett had a good OTA, so he starts?
Mayos first time in the spotlight isn’t going so well for him, he looks overwhelmed by decision making.

Speaking of decision making Drake Maye can improvise Biscuit cannot! that should make Mayo's decision very easy.

 

[Pats2000]

He was traded twice and never had a losing season his last 7 years in the league.He was selected #1 and went to a dumpster fire in SF. Once he was traded to KC and Washington (never released) he won 2/3 of his games 61/92. Not what I would call a journeyman.

Show me another HOF or all pro QB traded twice. He couldn't get the job done. Remind me how many super bowls he won.

 

[Pats2000]

Ugh. Maye outplayed him but brissett had a good OTA, so he starts?
Mayos first time in the spotlight isn’t going so well for him, he looks overwhelmed by decision making.

They have to make a decision on putting their rookie QB behind one of the worst lines in the NFL. I would start Brissett right now too. Let him get his ass handed to him while they try to get the line to coalesce

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Lol exactly.. I'd love to see how many were saying Mac sucked when he had the team at 9-3 at one point. I really would have liked to see how Mac's tenure would have turned out if Josh never left.

Probably like the end of the last year Josh was here when defenses figured out how to play Mac. If Josh came back, do you think the opposing defenses would have changed the way they played Mac in 2022?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Truth is not an excuse. Bad coaching did have a lot to do with his flameout here. That’s not up for debate.

McDaniels was a good coach and Mac sucked in the end of 2021 when defenses changed their approach. O'Brien is a good coach and Mac sucked under him.

There is no debate with closed minded posters - I agree.

 

[lancerman]

Probably like the end of the last year Josh was here when defenses figured out how to play Mac. If Josh came back, do you think the opposing defenses would have changed the way they played Mac in 2022?

People weren't saying Mac sucked the last few games of 2021 though. The whole off season to 2022 was people saying "we have the best rookie of the last draft class and he should take a step forward his sophmore year and we should be back to being in the mix".

It wasn't until we went 4-4 the next year that people started souring on Mac. And even then the 2-5 at the end of the season was what really pushed people over the edge on him and had them looking elsewhere.

Anyways there were so many ways Mac's developement went wrong for us that it's hard to see a scenario where he succeeds.

-3 OC's, including one who never should have been close to an offense in Patricia and another who couldn't bring on his own staff.
-Mac's own limitations never being developed.
-A lack of WR talent that limited what we could do on offense
-The line having paper thin depth and being a liability a lot of his run with the team

Mac might never have been able to succeed regardless, but nobody can objectively look at that situation and say he was given the best chance to develop here. Look at the QB's that broke out over the last several years in the NFL. Mahomes had Kafka and Bienemy the entire time, Hill for the first couple of years and Kelce always who are both game breakers, and they made aggressive investments in the offensive line. Allen had Daboll the first 4 years of his career and they made an aggressive pursuit for Diggs which ended up being the key to unlocking his potential. Burrow, Callahn was his OC for his first 4 years, Pitcher was his QB coach the entire time and is now his OC, they draged Chase with the 5th overall, his failures have been mostly the bad line holding them back the first two years and they've slowly been building that more effectively than us.

The model has traditionall been coaching consistency, have x factor pass catchers that can break games out to make it easier, and develop a solid line for protection. You can argue we've done the complete opposite. His limitations as a player might have got him in the end no matter what, butI don't think anyone can say we did a remotely competent job giving him a chance to work out.

And we better learn that lesson with Maye, because if 3 years from now he's onto a new coaching regime, we still have these ****ty WR's and the line isn't atleast above average, we will be talking about drafting the next guy even with Maye's physical toolset.

 

[archstanton543]

People weren't saying Mac sucked the last few games of 2021 though. The whole off season to 2022 was people saying "we have the best rookie of the last draft class and he should take a step forward his sophmore year and we should be back to being in the mix".

It wasn't until we went 4-4 the next year that people started souring on Mac. And even then the 2-5 at the end of the season was what really pushed people over the edge on him and had them looking elsewhere.

Anyways there were so many ways Mac's developement went wrong for us that it's hard to see a scenario where he succeeds.

-3 OC's, including one who never should have been close to an offense in Patricia and another who couldn't bring on his own staff.
-Mac's own limitations never being developed.
-A lack of WR talent that limited what we could do on offense
-The line having paper thin depth and being a liability a lot of his run with the team

Mac might never have been able to succeed regardless, but nobody can objectively look at that situation and say he was given the best chance to develop here. Look at the QB's that broke out over the last several years in the NFL. Mahomes had Kafka and Bienemy the entire time, Hill for the first couple of years and Kelce always who are both game breakers, and they made aggressive investments in the offensive line. Allen had Daboll the first 4 years of his career and they made an aggressive pursuit for Diggs which ended up being the key to unlocking his potential. Burrow, Callahn was his OC for his first 4 years, Pitcher was his QB coach the entire time and is now his OC, they draged Chase with the 5th overall, his failures have been mostly the bad line holding them back the first two years and they've slowly been building that more effectively than us.

The model has traditionall been coaching consistency, have x factor pass catchers that can break games out to make it easier, and develop a solid line for protection. You can argue we've done the complete opposite. His limitations as a player might have got him in the end no matter what, butI don't think anyone can say we did a remotely competent job giving him a chance to work out.

And we better learn that lesson with Maye, because if 3 years from now he's onto a new coaching regime, we still have these ****ty WR's and the line isn't atleast above average, we will be talking about drafting the next guy even with Maye's physical toolset.

Agree 100%

 

[Real fan 02]

Probably like the end of the last year Josh was here when defenses figured out how to play Mac. If Josh came back, do you think the opposing defenses would have changed the way they played Mac in 2022?

In 2022 is where it all when bad. At least Josh could adjust better to what defenses were doing to Mac. I just believe it would had been better for Mac's career to have had josh.. by three time Billy O came back Mac was mentally checked out.

 

[sb1]

McDaniels was a good coach and Mac sucked in the end of 2021 when defenses changed their approach. O'Brien is a good coach and Mac sucked under him.

There is no debate with closed minded posters - I agree.

O’Brien did a lousy job last year. There’s a reason why the Pats moved on.

Jones is in year 4 and he’s still mechanically flawed. That’s because he wasn’t coached out of those habits. That’s 100% on the coaching he had here.

And the idea that Jones sucked in the end of 2021 is overstated. His passer rating from the start of December on in 2021 was about 87. That rating is a lot closer to average than “sucked in the end”. The Bills game in Foxboro was the only poor game he had in that stretch. The wild card game where BB’s defense got embarrassed 47-17 - he never had a chance.

 

[Ring 6]

In 2022 is where it all when bad. At least Josh could adjust better to what defenses were doing to Mac. I just believe it would had been better for Mac's career to have had josh.. by three time Billy O came back Mac was mentally checked out.

If he mentally checked out and couldn’t be coached you’ve just made the argument against him.

 

[Kasmir]

People weren't saying Mac sucked the last few games of 2021 though. The whole off season to 2022 was people saying "we have the best rookie of the last draft class and he should take a step forward his sophmore year and we should be back to being in the mix".

It wasn't until we went 4-4 the next year that people started souring on Mac. And even then the 2-5 at the end of the season was what really pushed people over the edge on him and had them looking elsewhere.

Anyways there were so many ways Mac's developement went wrong for us that it's hard to see a scenario where he succeeds.

-3 OC's, including one who never should have been close to an offense in Patricia and another who couldn't bring on his own staff.
-Mac's own limitations never being developed.
-A lack of WR talent that limited what we could do on offense
-The line having paper thin depth and being a liability a lot of his run with the team

Mac might never have been able to succeed regardless, but nobody can objectively look at that situation and say he was given the best chance to develop here. Look at the QB's that broke out over the last several years in the NFL. Mahomes had Kafka and Bienemy the entire time, Hill for the first couple of years and Kelce always who are both game breakers, and they made aggressive investments in the offensive line. Allen had Daboll the first 4 years of his career and they made an aggressive pursuit for Diggs which ended up being the key to unlocking his potential. Burrow, Callahn was his OC for his first 4 years, Pitcher was his QB coach the entire time and is now his OC, they draged Chase with the 5th overall, his failures have been mostly the bad line holding them back the first two years and they've slowly been building that more effectively than us.

The model has traditionall been coaching consistency, have x factor pass catchers that can break games out to make it easier, and develop a solid line for protection. You can argue we've done the complete opposite. His limitations as a player might have got him in the end no matter what, butI don't think anyone can say we did a remotely competent job giving him a chance to work out.

And we better learn that lesson with Maye, because if 3 years from now he's onto a new coaching regime, we still have these ****ty WR's and the line isn't atleast above average, we will be talking about drafting the next guy even with Maye's physical toolset.

Looking back at 2021 with the perspective of what happened to Mac in 2022 and 2023, I'd say that BB's openly not trusting him to throw in that first Buffalo game may have begun the damage to his confidence and also signaled to other teams that Bill didn't trust Mac's arm so they could overplay the short and intermediate stuff.

Besides the sad excuse for offensive coaching in 2022, I suspect the other significant event was the combination of Mac being called out league wide as a dirty player and then the injury which some even saw as deliberate retribution.

Mac played scared after that, by his own admission watching the DLINE instead of looking downfield. It was all over at that point.

I'm not surprised he had a great preseason; I even predicted it here. The big question with Mac is whether he will continue to be prone to panic. I think it affects him not just under a pass rush, but also because any time the play breaks down he tends to freeze up.

I might add that Mac is plenty fast and agile enough to make you think he could play well off platform. And he's actually quite accurate throwing on the move on designed throws. But he panics when the play breaks down.

If he can't control his panic he can't play QB in this league.

 

[archstanton543]

Looking back at 2021 with the perspective of what happened to Mac in 2022 and 2023, I'd say that BB's openly not trusting him to throw in that first Buffalo game may have begun the damage to his confidence and also signaled to other teams that Bill didn't trust Mac's arm so they could overplay the short and intermediate stuff.

No. It was because they were playing in hurricane force winds. It didn't irreparably damage his confidence. People are looking for that one "ah-ha!" moment. There isn't one. His breakdown was a combination of things outlined in Lancerman's post.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Make your predictions! Mayo will name which QB as the starter?

I'm going with Maye.

 

[sb1]

People weren't saying Mac sucked the last few games of 2021 though. The whole off season to 2022 was people saying "we have the best rookie of the last draft class and he should take a step forward his sophmore year and we should be back to being in the mix".

It wasn't until we went 4-4 the next year that people started souring on Mac. And even then the 2-5 at the end of the season was what really pushed people over the edge on him and had them looking elsewhere.

Anyways there were so many ways Mac's developement went wrong for us that it's hard to see a scenario where he succeeds.

-3 OC's, including one who never should have been close to an offense in Patricia and another who couldn't bring on his own staff.
-Mac's own limitations never being developed.
-A lack of WR talent that limited what we could do on offense
-The line having paper thin depth and being a liability a lot of his run with the team

Mac might never have been able to succeed regardless, but nobody can objectively look at that situation and say he was given the best chance to develop here. Look at the QB's that broke out over the last several years in the NFL. Mahomes had Kafka and Bienemy the entire time, Hill for the first couple of years and Kelce always who are both game breakers, and they made aggressive investments in the offensive line. Allen had Daboll the first 4 years of his career and they made an aggressive pursuit for Diggs which ended up being the key to unlocking his potential. Burrow, Callahn was his OC for his first 4 years, Pitcher was his QB coach the entire time and is now his OC, they draged Chase with the 5th overall, his failures have been mostly the bad line holding them back the first two years and they've slowly been building that more effectively than us.

The model has traditionall been coaching consistency, have x factor pass catchers that can break games out to make it easier, and develop a solid line for protection. You can argue we've done the complete opposite. His limitations as a player might have got him in the end no matter what, butI don't think anyone can say we did a remotely competent job giving him a chance to work out.

And we better learn that lesson with Maye, because if 3 years from now he's onto a new coaching regime, we still have these ****ty WR's and the line isn't atleast above average, we will be talking about drafting the next guy even with Maye's physical toolset.

To me the fact he is still mechanically flawed… like how he is still throwing off his back foot this preseason validates everything above. He was not developed properly and likely as a result of bad and dysfunctional coaching, full stop.

At his best he is what he was projected to be. High floor low ceiling. A really good backup or a starter only on the right team. Botching his development has pulled the trap door on that “floor” down to something not playable in the NFL.

 

[TheRainMaker]

O’Brien did a lousy job last year. There’s a reason why the Pats moved on.

Agreed. I never liked the hire and didn't like him when he was here for 2009-2011.

Jones is in year 4 and he’s still mechanically flawed. That’s because he wasn’t coached out of those habits. That’s 100% on the coaching he had here.

No doubt the coaching was bad, but good players find a way to overcome bad coaching. If you rely on a coach to make you good, then that's a problem.

And the idea that Jones sucked in the end of 2021 is overstated. His passer rating from the start of December on in 2021 was about 87. That rating is a lot closer to average than “sucked in the end”. The Bills game in Foxboro was the only poor game he had in that stretch. The wild card game where BB’s defense got embarrassed 47-17 - he never had a chance.

At the end of the day, he was a rookie QB and our expectations of him playing strong down the stretch to get the #1 seed was pretty unrealistic. He was not at that point, nor was the team built, to take on better teams or keep up in shootouts. 10 of their 17 games were against teams .500 and above. That is a lot. They went 3-7 which is something that is underrated.

Tom's first year as a starter only played 6 games against teams .500 and above going 2-4 with two of those wins coming within the division. The Pats really benefitted from a last place schedule that season. Had Tom faced 10 teams .500 and above, they wouldn't have made the playoffs 2001 as we saw in 2002. He played a whopping 13 games in 2002 going 6-7 against those teams with a .500 or better record.

Bill made the necessary upgrades in 2003 and Tom had more experience. That's when things really took off.

 

[Real fan 02]

Make your predictions! Mayo will name which QB as the starter?

I'm going with Maye.

I've mentioned in a few post... we all will be paying attention to the practice reports. Let's see how Brissett practices.

I saw on ESPN last night Schefter was saying internally the organization knows Drake the best QB and questioning do they want to start him or bring him along in the season... START HIM!!

 

[neuronet]

Is the expectation we don’t play him until he’s 100% ready?

Why are we as fans becoming such helicopter parents with the guy? Let him get dirty. If he gets dinged up, rest him a little more than you normally would. But he needs his reps.

There's a middle ground between 0 and 100 though. What is the minimum viable product (MVP) you are willing to put out there against a real defense? That's the question, and is he there yet? We don't know only the coaching staff has a really good idea.

 

[neuronet]

I've mentioned in a few post... we all will be paying attention to the practice reports. Let's see how Brissett practices.

I saw on ESPN last night Schefter was saying internally the organization knows Drake the best QB and questioning do they want to start him or bring him along in the season... START HIM!!

Obviously he's the best qb on the team they made a great draft pick. Doesn't mean he has to be starting game 1 though. This is a really tough decision honestly. I'm absolutely fine letting Maye marinate a while longer before going under center in the real world. I'd also be ok if they think he is truly ready to make that last push in the crucible. I trust the coaching staff.

 

[sb1]

Agreed. I never liked the hire and didn't like him when he was here for 2009-2011.

No doubt the coaching was bad, but good players find a way to overcome bad coaching. If you rely on a coach to make you good, then that's a problem.

At the end of the day, he was a rookie QB and our expectations of him playing strong down the stretch to get the #1 seed was pretty unrealistic. He was not at that point, nor was the team built, to take on better teams or keep up in shootouts. 10 of their 17 games were against teams .500 and above. That is a lot. They went 3-7 which is something that is underrated.

Agreed 100%.

Tough enough to coach a rookie to break bad habits that were successful in college and Jones was never a special player that could do it on his own. Even Pederson commented that it wasn't easy breaking his habits. I think it is telling that he still has those bad mechanical habits at all in his 4th year.

Tom's first year as a starter only played 6 games against teams .500 an above going 2-4 with two of those wins coming within the division. The Pats really benefitted from a last place schedule that season. Had Tom faced 10 teams .500 and above, they wouldn't have made the playoffs 2001 as we saw in 2002. He played a whopping 13 games in 2002 going 6-7 against those teams with a .500 or better record.

Bill made the necessary upgrades in 2003 and Tom had more experience. That's when things really took off.

Yup and if their defense was better maybe he would have been over .500 that year.

 

[Real fan 02]

Obviously he's the best qb on the team they made a great draft pick. Doesn't mean he has to be starting game 1 though. This is a really tough decision honestly. I'm absolutely fine letting Maye marinate a while longer before going under center in the real world. I'd also be ok if they think he is truly ready to make that last push in the crucible. I trust the coaching staff.

I'm with you! Brissett and the injury is throwing a wrench into the plan the organization has for Drake. However I give big credit for Mayo and his staff for developing Drake to where he can ready to play out the gate. I believe they think he's ready.. but they may WANT to slow go it.. honestly maye and his abilities are the only way we have any chances to win this season. If he starts let him go through the the ups and downs of being a rookie. This will only be beneficial to him.