Maturation of Julian Edelman

[BradyFTW!]

I was definitely wrong about Edelman. I thought he was a nice player but not a major cog, and wouldn't have really cared if he'd left this past offseason, since I figured that Amendola would do all of the things that Edelman ended up doing. I still don't think he's someone that you want as your top WR, but I'm definitely coming around to the idea that he can be a good WR2 on an exceptional offense.

This is partly because, after seeing more of his versatility at WR this year, I'm thinking of him less as a poor man's Welker and more as a poor man's Antonio Brown. While they both lack the height and speed to be a prototypical WR1, they make up for a lot of it by exploding in and out of their cuts, running very precise routes, having great hands, and running almost every route in the route tree. Brown is clearly the more productive player, but Edelman does seem to be that kind of guy. Comparing him to Welker undersells his versatility, while highlighting the fact that he'll never do what Welker does anywhere near as well as Welker does it.

 

[PatsFan2]

Edelman's Route running is vastly improved earlier in the year he was not running to the sticks he was always two or three yards short. Now his routes are to the sticks or beyond the sign of a Good WR. He now seems to have Better than average deep speed because Brady is not afraid to try him deep. With Two of our Young WR's down I see another 100 yard day for Edelman Sunday. Edelman is a Great story.

 

[Fencer]

I've always been a moderate on the subject of Edelman. When people want to cut him, I believe he's a keeper. When people want to call him a premier receiver, I have trouble finding evidence he's more than a JAG.

But I'm becoming a believer in Edelman the WR. I still don't think he's going to prove to be the second coming of Wes Welker ... but he's beginning to look more like he could be another Deion Branch. I.e., he has great quicks, he's where Brady wants him to be, he has good-enough hands and body control but nothing special,* he has good enough speed but nothing special,* and he has good-enough durability but nothing special.*

*By "nothing special" I of course mean "nothing special when compared to those other amazing athletes who also are NFL wide receivers."

 

[ewg_gestalt]

I've always been a moderate on the subject of Edelman. When people want to cut him, I believe he's a keeper. When people want to call him a premier receiver, I have trouble finding evidence he's more than a JAG.

But I'm becoming a believer in Edelman the WR. I still don't think he's going to prove to be the second coming of Wes Welker ... but he's beginning to look more like he could be another Deion Branch. I.e., he has great quicks, he's where Brady wants him to be, he has good-enough hands and body control but nothing special,* he has good enough speed but nothing special,* and he has good-enough durability but nothing special.*

*By "nothing special" I of course mean "nothing special when compared to those other amazing athletes who also are NFL wide receivers."

Of course, let it not be forgotten that unlike most of those other guys who are amazing talents, Edelman became a wide receiver after he was drafted. So he's still very much learning on the job—while all of the guys ahead of him in the stats lists (Welker included) have years if not decades of experience to draw upon.

Even if he's not a generational talent like a Megatron, just being the next Deion Branch or Wes Welker shows what kind of athlete Edelman has to be to make such rapid progress, especially in an offense as complex as New England's.

 

[Salva135]

Edelman is definitely nothing more than a JAG, but he's our JAG. And you simply can't ignore the stats. We complain year after year about receivers struggling in this system. He's done an exceptional job this year and even has a Brady nickname now. There's no greater sign of rapport. You have to lock him down, and it will come at a reasonable price. Let's not let another one of our shrimpy white guys who work well in the system go for no reason.

 

[Brady6]

When he broke his arm in 2009, he was leading all rookies in receptions.

I truly wonder how much farther he would have progressed had that not happened.

I think it's noteworthy that McDaniels has been able to see something in Edelman that O'Brien wasn't seeing. Edelman as you said under Belichick with O'Brien aiding got off to a great start to his career and then when O'Brien took control of the offense officially in 2010 Edelman fell off the depth chart. Then when McDaniels returned in 2012 Edelman was the third receiver and now this season his is the number one.

That's one of the things that frustrates me about McDaniels is he can assess talent in young players and make them into studs but he instead of focusing entirely on that time is misspent on players like Lloyd, Amendola, Gaffney, Fells and Stallworth because he feels comfortable with them or something I don't know, I just want him and Bill to build through the draft and stop signing injured or character concerns, what he has done to develop Edelman in the last 2 years has been remarkable.

 

[Salva135]

I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around that idea that currently Julian Edelman is our #1 wideout.

 

[DocHoliday]

I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around that idea that currently Julian Edelman is our #1 wideout.

You doubt the Edelgod?

Heathen!

 

[SoCal Pmen]

I can't recall who it was but there was a member of the Patriots and reiterated in the media, Edelman's success has a direct correlation to him understanding their system and getting more and more comfortable in it each year. It was also noted that Amendola will likely get as comfortable as he continues in it provided that he stays healthy so we could see him elevate his game to what Welker and Edelman have done by next year. But Edelman provides that added spark and talent to the special teams side of the ball. He has essentially replaced WW production and is a better punt returner.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Kudo's to you Ivan, for being one of the VERY few Edelman haters to stand up. You sir, are a man.

BTW- That being said, despite the current numbers, Edelman does NOT equal Welker. They are playing differently in a different offense. Suffice it to say, Edelman is proving to be a solid NFL WR as well as being an elite PR. Not bad value for under a million. Compare that to what Miami is paying Wallace

Ken, I was never an "Edelman hater," however I was someone who did not believe he could "easily replace Welker," who had put up Hall of Fame numbers for 6 years in New England. He simply had not shown the development or ability to stay on the field to believe that was the case. How=ever his production this season, and even more importantly his ability to turn himself into a player Brady would turn to when big first downs were needed speaks volumes about his growth this year, and as i said props to you for believing in him the way you did. You are welcome to search for posts where I hate on him but I don't believe you will find any, rather I think you will find a number where I say he isn't Welker and we shouldn't expect that kind of production from him. I have always liked him, I just never saw him as 100 catch, lead the league in 1st downs and YAC guy, however his production this season mazy mean that someday he will meet those crazy numbers.

 

[letekro]

Ken, I was never an "Edelman hater," however I was someone who did not believe he could "easily replace Welker," who had put up Hall of Fame numbers for 6 years in New England. He simply had not shown the development or ability to stay on the field to believe that was the case. How=ever his production this season, and even more importantly his ability to turn himself into a player Brady would turn to when big first downs were needed speaks volumes about his growth this year, and as i said props to you for believing in him the way you did. You are welcome to search for posts where I hate on him but I don't believe you will find any, rather I think you will find a number where I say he isn't Welker and we shouldn't expect that kind of production from him. I have always liked him, I just never saw him as 100 catch, lead the league in 1st downs and YAC guy, however his production this season mazy mean that someday he will meet those crazy numbers.

Welker and Edelman are both good players, but there a lot of guys in the NFL that would put up huge numbers in the slot in NE. I truly believe that Davone Bess, for example, would have had similar numbers to Wes if he had come here at the same point in his career. Ditto Jeremy Kerley and Harry Douglass and probably many others. This is because: (1) Brady is ridiculously accurate on short passes, allowing for YAC and (2) it is much easier to get open out of the slot because there is a two-way go and the receiver is off the line so can't get jammed. The thing that gives JE a little bit more value is that he is more than just a slot guy. He is able to play the slot and "Z" receiver positions in the Pats offense.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Always liked Edelman. But I was concerned about his durability @ WR and felt that his hands needed more focus. I'm unexpectedly surprised to see him do THIS well but I always felt he should be on the roster as WR depth and backup to Wes in the slot. He's more than a JAG. Impressed with his ability to get open deep this year. Love to see him operate in space after a catch with his PR moves.

Watching the horrific performances by KC's receivers Sunday is making me appreciate how far Brady's WR corps has come this season.

Good health and many more yards to my man Edelperson.

 

[TyronePoole]

Re: Re: Maturation of Julian Edelman

I love # 11, so gritty, so tough, makes the biggest plays when needed and gets every ounce of yardage possible with the ball in his hands. What a great, great athlete that kid is. He should just change his number to 83 next season.

You had to know this was coming within the first ten posts lol

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think it's noteworthy that McDaniels has been able to see something in Edelman that O'Brien wasn't seeing. Edelman as you said under Belichick with O'Brien aiding got off to a great start to his career and then when O'Brien took control of the offense officially in 2010 Edelman fell off the depth chart. Then when McDaniels returned in 2012 Edelman was the third receiver and now this season his is the number one.

That's one of the things that frustrates me about McDaniels is he can assess talent in young players and make them into studs but he instead of focusing entirely on that time is misspent on players like Lloyd, Amendola, Gaffney, Fells and Stallworth because he feels comfortable with them or something I don't know, I just want him and Bill to build through the draft and stop signing injured or character concerns, what he has done to develop Edelman in the last 2 years has been remarkable.

Edelman's drop in playing time in 2010 had more to do with GRONK and Branch than any problem with Edelman himself. And 2011 he had to split time with the D.

 

[Brady6]

Edelman's drop in playing time in 2010 had more to do with GRONK and Branch than any problem with Edelman himself. And 2011 he had to split time with the D.

If Edelman was able to see reps on a team with Moss (138 targets) and Welker (162 targets) in 2009 I don’t know what Gronkowski would have to do with it? You realize Gronkowski was only targeted 59 times in his rookie season correct? He has been targeted 62 times since returning in week 7 this season, he was not a top target he was actually fourth on the team in 2010. I know he played defense in 2011 but if he was an integral part of the offense I am sure they could have used Slater or found someone else to play that role, the reason he was used there is because he was not being used any place else.

Belichick 2009 – 11 games, 54 targets
O’Brien 2010 – 15 games, 14 targets
O’Brien 2011 – 13 games, 8 targets
McDaniels 2012 – 9 games, 32 targets

I look at that and I see a player who came in did really well as a rookie with Belichick handling the offense, then was not used much if at all in the next 2 years with O’Brien as the OC and under McDaniels is has progressed drastically 2 years under him. In my opinion that indicates that O’Brien was not using or developing Edelman and McDaniels has done an excellent job, from day 1 of training camp last year Edelman was used significantly more with McDaniels running things.

 

[Brady6]

I am sorry. I love Edelman as much as the next pats fan. But i would take Sanders over him as far as a pure WR.

I hope he stays next year and think he is showing what ll of us Edelman lovers thought he could do. But IMO his best work is done in the slot not out wide. I like Sanders as he is good all over the park.

In saying that. Dobson and KT might end up making the Sanders move redundant who knows.

In hindsight we’d have been much better off signing Sanders over Amendola. We would have had a nice group:

WR X – Dobson
WR Y – Sanders
WR Z – Edelman
TE Y – Gronkowski

Edelman is best off in the slot and Sanders is an ideal Y receiver capable of stretching the field and playing underneath. I would like to see them take a run at Sanders this offseason but unfortunately I think the Amendola contract is going to handcuff that possibility.

Either way I don’t think it comes down to Edelman or Amendola in my opinion if you wanted Sanders in this offseason you find a way to rid yourself of the Amendola contract, resign Edelman and sign Sanders.

 

[Brady6]

Kudo's to you Ivan, for being one of the VERY few Edelman haters to stand up. You sir, are a man.

In fairness to Ivan the expectation that any player could simply replace Wes Welker is unrealistic. Edelman has filled the void but he is not Wes Welker. I think the antics at the beginning of last season and the hard feelings as result of Welker leaving cause some to forget just how special he was during his time in New England. In 2011 Welker had 122 receptions for 1569 receiving yards and 9 touchdowns – it would be shocking if Edelman and Amendola can combine for that production playing at the same time. Edelman has been fantastic no doubt, but I personally cannot fault Ivan or anyone else for suggesting he wouldn’t just replace Welker.

 

[Fencer]

Of course, let it not be forgotten that unlike most of those other guys who are amazing talents, Edelman became a wide receiver after he was drafted. So he's still very much learning on the job—while all of the guys ahead of him in the stats lists (Welker included) have years if not decades of experience to draw upon.

Even if he's not a generational talent like a Megatron, just being the next Deion Branch or Wes Welker shows what kind of athlete Edelman has to be to make such rapid progress, especially in an offense as complex as New England's.

Yep. He has a lot more upside remaining than would be normal for a veteran of his pro experience.

 

[Avenger]

In fairness to Ivan the expectation that any player could simply replace Wes Welker is unrealistic. Edelman has filled the void but he is not Wes Welker. I think the antics at the beginning of last season and the hard feelings as result of Welker leaving cause some to forget just how special he was during his time in New England. In 2011 Welker had 122 receptions for 1569 receiving yards and 9 touchdowns – it would be shocking if Edelman and Amendola can combine for that production playing at the same time. Edelman has been fantastic no doubt, but I personally cannot fault Ivan or anyone else for suggesting he wouldn’t just replace Welker.

Edelman was starting to replace Welker even before he was off the team before Edelman got hurt last year.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Welker and Edelman are both good players, but there a lot of guys in the NFL that would put up huge numbers in the slot in NE. I truly believe that Davone Bess, for example, would have had similar numbers to Wes if he had come here at the same point in his career. Ditto Jeremy Kerley and Harry Douglass and probably many others. This is because: (1) Brady is ridiculously accurate on short passes, allowing for YAC and (2) it is much easier to get open out of the slot because there is a two-way go and the receiver is off the line so can't get jammed. The thing that gives JE a little bit more value is that he is more than just a slot guy. He is able to play the slot and "Z" receiver positions in the Pats offense.

Edelman is good, Welker was great, he's showing a lot but he still has a long way to go to be in Welker's class. As for Bess and Douglass etc... I think that athletically you are right, but what makes Brady's slot guys special is the ability to see the field the way he sees it and be open where he expects them to be instantly, and that is no small feat. Whether or not other guys can do that is open to question, and it has really taken Edelman his entire career to reach the point where Brady will turn to him as the go to guy on a big third down. You have to earn that and he has, as Faulk, Welker, Moss, Brown and Branch had in the past. And that is a big reason i would pay Edelman instead of going back after Sanders, although I would still take him as default.