Mark Cuban Contrasts NBA Growth vs NFL Demise cites Pats players

[rochrist]

The CTE stuff is true, youth football through High School has taken a huge hit. He loses me with the NBA, there's Curry and LeBron after that it really falls off as far as star power. On the football side, beside Brady and Co. You have JJ Watt, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Antonio Brown, and rising Stars like Went and Goff. Obviously, he has an interest in promoting the NBA.

The part about NBA stars isn't even remotely true.

 

[scott99]

Taylor Momsen....shudders with lust...

Yeah, I was trying to keep it respectful, but yeah, she is beautiful.

 

[Kdo5]

blow it out your ass Cuban. Basketball (next to soccer) must be one of the most boring sports on earth.

Nah basketball is the easiest to watch and definitely not boring.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

The NFL has taken a 2 year hit in ratings, no doubt. The NBA, OTOH, has seen more upward growth up until this latest season. Cuban is right, right? (post hoc ergo propter hoc).

The NFL's TV numbers being so utterly dominant that growth would be much more difficult than the NBA's very solid but FAR from NFL ubiquity numbers. The NBA could see growth for years while the NFL see fall backs for years -- yet the NFL will still be bigger in terms of per event nielsens. The NBA numbers are good and need not apologize to anyone, however, the NFL even now remains absurd in its numbers.

IMHO once the NFL embarked on the PR justice of Goodell the stage had been set for softening numbers. The outcome of PR justice is always going to be having show dishonesty, talking out the side of the mouth, unequal actions and eventually alienation of potential viewers with ever greater group/demo diversity.

On CTE, yes it is a serious issue but I don't believe CTE has tangibly hurt the NFL numbers. IMHO this is akin to boxing in its greatest days. Fans knew, deep down anyways, a guy getting his melon bashed for 20 minutes that somehow staggers to stay on his feet so he could get his melon bashed for an extra 5 minutes ain't gonna really gonna be good for that guy's health. So even if CTE wasn't yet defined and known, were there that many who actually thought the bashing of skulls (even with helmets on) over a 10 year career was ok for that guy until CTE was defined?
Consider this: years ago people would line up to see Evel Knievel jump a motorcycle over a country mile of buses. Sure, hey, sometimes Evel ended up landing a bur or two short which caused him to do a 180 MPH cartwheel down 10 city blocks. Ahem, that was just part of the sporting event, right? There are 1000 other different ways a human has presented themselves (in sport or individual action) where danger and threat of violence/doom has packed in the crowds. This is part of who we humans are going all the way back to the Roman Coliseum and before. So IMHO Cuban is making that simple minded A-B connection that has a much deeper, logical explanation (some of which isn't PC to speak about -- that humans like to watch danger/threat of violence, admire those who will willingly face it, and we will never really stop to consider the 10 year or 20 year later ramifications even though most are smart enough to know the ramifications have always been very possible).

 

[rochrist]

The NFL has taken a 2 year hit in ratings, no doubt. The NBA, OTOH, has seen more upward growth up until this latest season. Cuban is right, right? (post hoc ergo propter hoc).

The NFL's TV numbers being so utterly dominant that growth would be much more difficult than the NBA's very solid but FAR from NFL ubiquity numbers. The NBA could see growth for years while the NFL see fall backs for years -- yet the NFL will still be bigger in terms of per event nielsens. The NBA numbers are good and need not apologize to anyone, however, the NFL even now remains absurd in its numbers.

IMHO once the NFL embarked on the PR justice of Goodell the stage had been set for softening numbers. The outcome of PR justice is always going to be having show dishonesty, talking out the side of the mouth, unequal actions and eventually alienation of potential viewers with ever greater group/demo diversity.

On CTE, yes it is a serious issue but I don't believe CTE has tangibly hurt the NFL numbers. IMHO this is akin to boxing in its greatest days. Fans knew, deep down anyways, a guy getting his melon bashed for 20 minutes that somehow staggers to stay on his feet so he could get his melon bashed for an extra 5 minutes ain't gonna really gonna be good for that guy's health. So even if CTE wasn't yet defined and known, were there that many who actually thought the bashing of skulls (even with helmets on) over a 10 year career was ok for that guy until CTE was defined?
Consider this: years ago people would line up to see Evel Knievel jump a motorcycle over a country mile of buses. Sure, hey, sometimes Evel ended up landing a bur or two short which caused him to do a 180 MPH cartwheel down 10 city blocks. Ahem, that was just part of the sporting event, right? There are 1000 other different ways a human has presented themselves (in sport or individual action) where danger and threat of violence/doom has packed in the crowds. This is part of who we humans are going all the way back to the Roman Coliseum and before. So IMHO Cuban is making that simple minded A-B connection that has a much deeper, logical explanation (some of which isn't PC to speak about -- that humans like to watch danger/threat of violence, admire those who will willingly face it, and we will never really stop to consider the 10 year or 20 year later ramifications even though most are smart enough to know the ramifications have always been very possible).

Cuban's point isn't entirely about pure numbers. He's correct that the demographic for NBA viewers has been skewing younger and younger, while the NFL viewership has gotten older and older. The younger demographic is far more desirable to the advertising people.

 

[maineman209]

it's only tolerable with beer

When I lived in Detroit, there wasn't a much better way to beat the late July swelter than a Twi-Night Tigers double-header on the radio with a 12-pack of ice cold Stroh's.

 

[DarrylS]

All of Television and traditional view have seen their ratings decline..

Pure, American, flagwaving and wholesome NASCAR is down something like 17% in TV ratings..

MLB is down about 5%..

NBA viewing is up, maybe a competent commissioner is helpful.

TV is watched mostly by the oldest demographic(51 hours a week) and least by the youngest demographic(14 hours per week down from 26 hours per week in 2011)..

OTOH 3 of the top rated TV shows last week were all NFL broadcasts..

The argument about how the NFL is floundering is disingenuous at best as all of traditional TV viewing is changing..

 

[maineman209]

yet the NFL will still be bigger in terms of per event nielsens.

For NBC, CBS, Fox and ABC (ESPN), NFL games are nearly always their highest rated, regularly-scheduled weekly programs - even Thursday Night Football. The national advertising revenue they receive from the games far exceeds anything they receive from any other block of dramas, sitcoms, etc. That's one of the reasons that TNF exists in the first place, and it's also why these networks have been so persistent in lobbying the owners about expanding the regular season to 20 weeks (with a second BYE week) and expanding the playoffs. Doing so would expand their weekly revenue bonanza opportunities from 20 weeks (with playoffs) to almost a full six months.

 

[maineman209]

NASCAR is down something like 17% in TV ratings..

It seems to me that muscle car ownership among ordinary people is also down. Not many "true" muscle cars being manufactured anymore, and those that come closest aren't nearly as affordable as they once were. And the days of being able to DIY an old clunker into a muscle car that's street-legal by current emissions standards are long gone, it seems.

Anyway, with fewer folks owning - or having ever owned or experienced the face-flattening, feeling-the-roar-through-your-spine thrill of stomping on a gas pedal and rocketing away in "warp drive" - maybe there a fewer people who can viscerally identify with what they're seeing on the screen with NASCAR?

 

[Kontradiction]

Taylor Momsen....shudders with lust...

She looks like the kind of girl that would let you choke her.

Not that I’m into that sort of thing.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I like both equally ... I think the sneakers help out a lot in building younger fans.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

If Roger is our savior, I'm sorry....I'm with her...

Wow! Reminds me of someone I dated back in college (though the woman I knew had dark hair). Otherwise could be her sister (or Mother given the age difference). She was a singer in a local rock band.

 

[borg]

A few disconnected thoughts:
-Fantasy football helped take the NFL to the next level....and it is my opinion that the fantasy craze has mellowed which likely has had some affect on viewership.
-Regarding pre / post game TV productions...aka 'filler'.....the info/highlights desired by viewers is readily attainable with a few key strokes making the TV 'expert panels' obsolete.
-And using my teen son's game day habits as my basis, he plays fantasy vs his classmates who all bypass live game broadcasts and instead split time between Red Zone and their computers where they do 5 different things at once.
And to paraphrase baseball GM Billy Beane's character in Money Ball..."I don't watch the games."
-VipBox has become my household's sports streaming destination of choice and Netflix is the non-sports destination. The TV is rarely on now.
-I also have to believe the bombardment of college football on Saturdays takes its toll on viewership on Sundays. The NCAA and the broadcasters have done a great job building up big game hype for their Saturday night games that have a "big event" feel to them....while many of the NFL's 1PM broadcasts seem more like the ugly step children you keep out of sight. The over saturation of football is real.
-Then there's the Premiere League soccer on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Personally, I love everything about this league.....one interruption matches that never last more than two hours, commercial free, during a part of the day when I'm not doing much any way. It helps to adopt a team to support. For me, these games entertain me much more than non-Patriots games. My kid and his friends are all hooked on the Premiere League as well.
-The NFL's 100 commercials / game broadcast model irritates me to no end and has become a deal breaker. As all our attention spans become smaller and an endless see of alternatives only a keystroke away, the commercial model is becoming a dinosaur.


-

 

[patriot1136]

I guess this might be getting off topic, but I am also a Premiere League fan (Manchester United). It is nice that it is limited interruptions and all that. I even more appreciate the passion of the fans and the history/traditions which makes it easy to get into. It just has a different feel to it and vibe compared to all other sports which makes it enjoyable but also a bit unique.

 

[maineman209]

Wow! Reminds me of someone I dated back in college (though the woman I knew had dark hair). Otherwise could be her sister (or Mother given the age difference). She was a singer in a local rock band.

Lucky SOB.

 

[Ring 6]

Cuban's point isn't entirely about pure numbers. He's correct that the demographic for NBA viewers has been skewing younger and younger, while the NFL viewership has gotten older and older. The younger demographic is far more desirable to the advertising people.

Are you sure about the demographics? And why would young viewers with less money be more valuable to advertisers than older viewers with more money?

 

[BTTA]

...-The NFL's 100 commercials / game broadcast model irritates me to no end and has become a deal breaker. As all our attention spans become smaller and an endless see of alternatives only a keystroke away, the commercial model is becoming a dinosaur.

Yup. I don't watch games live anymore, with the exception of Pats' playoff games, because of the ads. Record them for the first hour and watch at that point, skipping past the ads. The playoff games I'm too pumped about to wait, and I always bring something else to do while the ads are on and muted.

 

[BTTA]

He loses me with the NBA, there's Curry and LeBron after that it really falls off as far as star power. On the football side, beside Brady and Co. You have JJ Watt, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Antonio Brown, and rising Stars like Went and Goff. Obviously, he has an interest in promoting the NBA.

Cuban's point isn't entirely about pure numbers. He's correct that the demographic for NBA viewers has been skewing younger and younger, while the NFL viewership has gotten older and older. The younger demographic is far more desirable to the advertising people.

I'd love to see actual research about name recognition in the various pro sports by demographic. My suspicions are that the younger you get, the more basketball names go up and football down, and vice versa. And that there will be geographic differences, and urban/suburban/rural differences.

 

[Kontradiction]

Are you sure about the demographics? And why would young viewers with less money be more valuable to advertisers than older viewers with more money?

From a marketing standpoint, it depends on the product. Harley Davidson, for example, would be marketed toward an older demographic because young people simply do not buy them and have less disposable income to spend on such products. He's probably correct about the NBA, though, because a lot of the boomers and older fans remember the way basketball used to be when Bird and Magic were playing. You can see the widespread rejection on this forum alone for how the game changed when Jordan began to win championships. While I would still personally market toward boomers (as you say, they have the most amount of money to spend right now and the time value of money concept is always relevant), there are only so many advertising dollars to go around. Clearly, the NBA is going in the direction of trying to attract the younger generation with long-term gains in mind while the NFL is clearly trying to do everything it can to maximize its short-term earnings. There are reasons for that, but you can see that attempt by the NBA to bring in the younger demographic with mobile device connectivity and streaming advantages that the NFL is only beginning to catch up on. That's targeted at the millennials.

How things will shake out remains to be seen. I think the game of football will be negatively impacted in the future the more and more we hear about concussions and their effects on the brain at a young age. How much more impacted it will get is up for debate. There are still those in poorer urban areas, for example, that will probably still let their kids play the sport because it may be the kid's only way out. Since that demographic makes up the majority of the talent in the NFL today, I don't think we can fully write off the sport's future in favor of the NBA just yet.

 

[Ring 6]

From a marketing standpoint, it depends on the product. Harley Davidson, for example, would be marketed toward an older demographic because young people simply do not buy them and have less disposable income to spend on such products. He's probably correct about the NBA, though, because a lot of the boomers and older fans remember the way basketball used to be when Bird and Magic were playing. You can see the widespread rejection on this forum alone for how the game changed when Jordan began to win championships. While I would still personally market toward boomers (as you say, they have the most amount of money to spend right now and the time value of money concept is always relevant), there are only so many advertising dollars to go around. Clearly, the NBA is going in the direction of trying to attract the younger generation with long-term gains in mind while the NFL is clearly trying to do everything it can to maximize its short-term earnings. There are reasons for that, but you can see that attempt by the NBA to bring in the younger demographic with mobile device connectivity and streaming advantages that the NFL is only beginning to catch up on. That's targeted at the millennials.

How things will shake out remains to be seen. I think the game of football will be negatively impacted in the future the more and more we hear about concussions and their effects on the brain at a young age. How much more impacted it will get is up for debate. There are still those in poorer urban areas, for example, that will probably still let their kids play the sport because it may be the kid's only way out. Since that demographic makes up the majority of the talent in the NFL today, I don't think we can fully write off the sport's future in favor of the NBA just yet.

I can understand a plan to attract young fans to grow the popularity of the league. I disagree that’s the demographic that attracts and excites advertisers.
I’m also curious if it’s a fact not just an impression that the nba fan base is substantially younger than the NFLs.