Manny to FLA, Hermida to PIT, Bay to BoSox

[Double G]

Umm what? How exactly is Sabathia an overrated tub of goo?

How did he do the other night vs the Cubs in a battle for first place in the NL Central? How did he do in game 6 vs the Red Sox last year in the ALCS when he had a chance to close them out? Sorry, he's overated in my book. Beckett should have won the Cy Young last year, not him.

He's probably gonna win another Cy Young this year, and I don't know about you but a rotation of Beckett, Sabathia, Dice-K, Lester and Wakefield sounds downright disgusting.

Beckett was so so his first year in Boston, a home run machine trying to blow fastballs by everyone. Last year he was awesome and we won the WS thanks to him; this year, he's mediocre, not a money pitcher at this point when he needs to be, 9-8 with an era close to 4.00.

If they trade away Manny and get 50 cents on the dollar, that is like waving a white flag in my book. They have done nothing while the Yankees and Angels have made huge upgrades over the past week............

 

[Foley]

How did he do the other night vs the Cubs in a battle for first place in the NL Central? How did he do in game 6 vs the Red Sox last year in the ALCS when he had a chance to close them out?

He pitched a quality start against the best team in the league, and would have left the game in line for the win if not for an error by the 2B on a routine double play. Regardless, that was his first outing that wasn't phenomenal since the trade into a tight pennant race. And he pitched a shutout against the other team chasing them in the division the start before.

As far as the postseason, he pitched over 250 innings last year. I think being overworked had more to do with his performance than him being unable to handle pressure. He pitched great down the stretch last year for the Indians, and is doing the same for the Brewers now.

 

[Wildo7]

Sabathia's 2-0 with a 0.90 ERA in October and 17-9 with a 2.97 ERA in September. Taking single games against the Sox and Cubs that he lost because of his team's defense is just as stupid as judging Beckett off of his pitiful performance tonight. Sabathia is one of the top 5 pitchers in the entire league.

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

that would suck...so we would end up getting Bay for Manny then. I guess you have to get something for Manny at this point because there is no way he is in Boston next year.

Bay is a good Canadian Kid from a small mining town in BC. He knows the meaning of hard work and giving it your all 110% of the time.

 

[Wildo7]

Has anyone seen the latest Manny quote? WOW. I'm totally convinced that there's almost no way he's on this team after 4pm tomorrow.

"The Red Sox don't deserve me."

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Bay is a good Canadian Kid from a small mining town in BC. He knows the meaning of hard work and giving it your all 110% of the time.

sounds like a scrapper to me.

he's not manny ramirez and he plays in the national league. i am very wary of obtaining national league talent.

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

sounds like a scrapper to me.

he's not manny ramirez and he plays in the national league. i am very wary of obtaining national league talent.

Not only that the Bruins could sign him up.

 

[Wildo7]

sounds like a scrapper to me.

he's not manny ramirez and he plays in the national league. i am very wary of obtaining national league talent.

His numbers are only a shade behind Manny's this year, and he's a defensive upgrade who may actually break a light jog running to 1st base. Throw in the amount of change they're saving on this guy and the fact that he'll be going to a much better lineup in a park that's built for his swing and it's a no brainer. He also plays in the best division in the NL with the Cubs, Brewers and Cards. The only knock is the injuries.

Jason Bay: .377/.523/.900
Manny: .399/.533/.932

 

[Wildo7]

The more I think about it the more I absolutely love this trade:

10:33pm: The Palm Beach Post says a tentative agreement has been reached, despite Gammons' comments. Here's the deal:

The Marlins will get Ramirez for Hermida, right-hander Ryan Tucker and two other prospects, with those four players being flipped to Pittsburgh for outfielder Jason Bay and left-hander John Grabow.

The Red Sox will send the Marlins enough cash to cover the remainder of Ramirez contract, as well as an unnamed prospect.

Pittsburgh gets Hermida and two prospects - two from Florida and one from Boston. One of the Marlins' prospects is believed to be Tucker.

10:22pm: More from Gammons. The deal is definitely not done - the Bucs aren't yet satisfied with the players they'd get from Boston for Bay. Nothing has been done in regards to Manny's no-trade or paperwork to the Commissioner's Office.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

 

[Real World]

How's Sabathia going to win the Cy Young if his season is split between two different leagues, with two different trophies?

If the rumored deal goes through, it's about as good a deal as the Sox could expect, but still a significant drop off in quality & production. Aside from the pure statistical difference, is the performance in the clutch. Manny was a killer when it mattered, and teams feared him. Bay will have a hard time replicating that respect and production in the clutch. Still, Bay is an excellent talent, controlled till next year at decent coin ($7.5 million) and serves as a bonafied replacement in left. I think the Sox are doing about as good as they can if the rumored deal goes through.

I'd never do Lowrie for Wilson. Wilson is a terrific defensive player, but his bat is real soft. He's got a lifetime slg% under .400, and a career OPS+ of 78! With Varitek, Crisp, and Ellsbury struggling offensively, and the drop from Manny to Bay, Wilson would mean 3-4 outs in the lineup.

 

[Wildo7]

How's Sabathia going to win the Cy Young if his season is split between two different leagues, with two different trophies?

Because the writers vote and they'll take his AL stats into consideration as if they were NL stats all year. It'd be dumb to discount his AL stats especially since he went from the tougher league to the easier one.

 

[Foley]

I'd like the trade a lot more if Grabow wasn't involved. He's really nothing special, and getting him means that they have to give up more prospects. If all they give up is just a Kris Johnson level prospect it'll be fine, but any more than that is too much.

If they need another lefty they can get Ron Mahay for Brandon Moss (which the Royals offered Boston). He's 37 years old, but he's put up good numbers in a division with some very good teams.

 

[Wildo7]

I'd like the trade a lot more if Grabow wasn't involved. He's really nothing special, and getting him means that they have to give up more prospects. If all they give up is just a Kris Johnson level prospect it'll be fine, but any more than that is too much.

If they need another lefty they can get Ron Mahay for Brandon Moss (which the Royals offered Boston). He's 37 years old, but he's put up good numbers in a division with some very good teams.

Well it all depends on which prospect we're talking about. Grabow is nothing special but he adds a needed arm to the bullpen. If you look at it from the Pirates' point of view, their giving up a very good player they have through 2009 and a RP for prospects. Considering the fact that Manny only has value for any team we trade him to for the next two months (no one can pick up his 2009 option) he's not worth as much as Bay.

 

[Run DMC]

God I wish we could get Hanley Ramirez back. That will never happen, unfortunately. I sometimes wonder if getting Beckett and Lowell for him was worth it. I guess the answer is yes, but it still hurts to lose the greatest prospect to ever come out of our system.

 

[Wildo7]

God I wish we could get Hanley Ramirez back. That will never happen, unfortunately. I sometimes wonder if getting Beckett and Lowell for him was worth it. I guess the answer is yes, but it still hurts to lose the greatest prospect to ever come out of our system.

Not even close. Hanley for Lowell and Beckett is a deal the Sox do again tomorrow if they could.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

All I can say is that this deal sounds a lot better than the garbage I was hearing about on Tuesday (Manny and Ellsbury(!) to the Mets for Carlos Beltran).

 

[Real World]

Because the writers vote and they'll take his AL stats into consideration as if they were NL stats all year. It'd be dumb to discount his AL stats especially since he went from the tougher league to the easier one.

First of all they won't do that, and second, his overall stats aren't worthy of a Cy Young. He's 10-8 with an ERA over 3. When Rick Sutcliffe got traded during the season and won the CY Young in the NL, he made 20 starts, and went 16-1, with a sub 3 ERA. There wasn't a pitcher who had more dominant stats than him. Matter of fact, the writers excluded the 10 or so starts he made in the AL, since his ERA there was over 5. In the NL this year, there are at least 6 pitchers with a superior amount of wins over CC, who have a sub 3 ERA. CC has ZERO chance.

 

[Real World]

I'd like the trade a lot more if Grabow wasn't involved. He's really nothing special, and getting him means that they have to give up more prospects. If all they give up is just a Kris Johnson level prospect it'll be fine, but any more than that is too much.

If they need another lefty they can get Ron Mahay for Brandon Moss (which the Royals offered Boston). He's 37 years old, but he's put up good numbers in a division with some very good teams.

Grabow is a LOOGY. He's having a solid year, but you're right about him not being anything special. If the Royals offer is legit (I've heard the same as you), then the Sox would be dumb to pass up sending Moss for him. Moss isn't going to be a a starter for the Sox. With Drew locked in RF, and Ellsbury in CF, the Sox are going to need a RH hitting OF in left, and one that hits for power if Manny isn't going to be here moving forward. Mahay is a terrific arm out of the pen. He's not a LOOGY, as he's got a low OPS & BAA versus both lefties & righties. He's 37, but he's only got next year on his deal at $4 million. I think that's a net positive in today's league. His stats over his last 4 or 5 years have been terrific.

 

[Double G]

This whole scenario anyway you slice it sucks. If/when the Sox trade Manny, they are doing so because he is a distraction now and says dumber things by the day to try to shoot his way out of town.

They gave the guy 160 million dollars, have a club option for two years, but that is not good enough for Manny. He wants them to tear up the contract and give him what, four years at 100 million? Not gonna happen, he should have just kept his mouth shut and honored his contract.

This is way different than 2004 when they traded Nomar at the deadline; they got back a gold glove first baseman, a playmaker at short who could also hit and a guy who could steal a base for them, a guy who basically saved their season vs the Yankees in game four. He gets thrown out, the season ends right there.

This is the old addition by subtraction, but your'e trading away a first ballot HOF guy and getting back what, 60 cents on the dollar?

The Angels made a huge upgrade, the Yankees made two huge upgrades and the Red Sox made a downgrade if/when the deal goes through.

I completely understand this is how it has to be, but that doesn't make it any easier to accept. Not the way I pictured Manny's days as a Red Sox player to end, what fan in their right mind comes down on his side in this one.

Red Sox nation is and has every right to be pissed at Manny, he has a million dollar swing and a .02 cent head.

 

[JAYHAWKS34]

God I wish we could get Hanley Ramirez back. That will never happen, unfortunately. I sometimes wonder if getting Beckett and Lowell for him was worth it. I guess the answer is yes, but it still hurts to lose the greatest prospect to ever come out of our system.

One of the most dominating pitchers today and should have been Cy Young last year, and a world series MVP.. ya I think that trade was decent