Malcolm Butler sort of talks about his SB benching

[RobertWeathers]

We know why every single other high profile benching on the Patriots happened. Butler is the only one we don't know. We know why Welker missed time for a foot joke, we know why Gray got benched for missing an alarm clock, we know why guys got benched for games because of fumbling. There's exactly one mystery that nobody has gotten an explanation for over the 24 years Belichick coached on the Patriots.

Bill has had zero problems calling people out for talking **** about him and making stuff up before. You're making it sound like the production was the only time he could respond. It's been a year and frankly stories of players getting pissed off and thinking it was a personal decision have been out there for years. And we know Bill's camp works the media, guys like Lombardi etc are all over the place. When Bill wants his story out, it gets out. We've seen it for years. Hell two years ago he was making sure all of sudden the terms of his contract were out in public when it looked like he was on the hotseat. When he wants his stance out there because it benefits him, it gets out there.

Again it's very telling that the owner of the Patriots publicly said that the 2017 Super Bowl was the first time in his partnership with Belichick that Bill put his personal matters above the team and none of Bill's talking heads or anyone from his camp has bothered to refute it. There's also a reason when the Brady break up was happening and his team was talking to the media, they specified the 2017 Super Bowl as a huge souring point in the relationship.

He's not having his guys in the media back him up because everyone is fine letting sleeping dogs lie, and if he calls certain people liars over it for making it known they disagree with how he handled that, then he gives them a reason to air it out to defend themselves.

We'll disagree on this matter.

Bill has never, ever stated publicly why a player was benched.

I don't buy what Kraft was selling. Personnel matters? Please.

 

[lancerman]

Bill has never, ever stated publicly why a player was benched.

I don't buy what Kraft was selling.

We'll disagree on all of this.

In yet somehow every Bill Belichick benching besides one has made it's way to the media within like a day or two. The one where the owner is calling it personal and his star player is having his team tell the media how pissed off he and other players were over how it was handled is conveniently the one that didn't get out there.

You can disagree with Kraft, but he's legitimately the only person on the planet who could drag Bill into his office and demand an explanation for why he made such a huge decision with the team he owns. And if he just flagarantly makes up a bs lie about Bill Belichick and airs it out to the world, he looks like absolute dogshit if Bill comes back and says no he's lying with receipts.

Again there's a reason there's 1 benching we didn't get an explanation for within a couple days, still doesn't have an official explanation out there, has the owner calling it personal, has players leaking to media that it's personal, and has a ton of people at Patriots place who are connected to all the hire ups going around saying it was personal. And frankly there's more than a few Boston reporters who have alluded to what happened and it's been out there. In fact, the biggest elements of it were actually one of the first things the media put out (the Steve Belichick/Malcolm Butler fight).

And there's a reason why whenever people try to say it's a football decision they can never explain why Bill watched his defense have the worst game of the year and didn't go back to the CB who played the most snaps that year and was crying on the sideline of the Super Bowl.

 

[TheRainMaker]

If Malcolm plays, Pats win another ring. Period. I'll never stop believing that.

Had Bill put Gilmore on Jeffrey from the 1st play of the game as he did after Rowe was responsible for 10 early points and Butler on Agholor, the Pats most likely hold off the Eagles in a shootout. It's still disappointing how Bill didn't have answers for the gimmick RPO.

The refs also gifted the Eagles 14 points on the illegal shift and on the bobbling catch (not sure what downs those were).

Blount haunting the Pats also stung big time when he rumbled for 90 yards including a 36 yard TD run.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In yet somehow every Bill Belichick benching besides one has made it's way to the media within like a day or two. The one where the owner is calling it personal and his star player is having his team tell the media how pissed off he and other players were over how it was handled is conveniently the one that didn't get out there.

You can disagree with Kraft, but he's legitimately the only person on the planet who could drag Bill into his office and demand an explanation for why he made such a huge decision with the team he owns. And if he just flagarantly makes up a bs lie about Bill Belichick and airs it out to the world, he looks like absolute dogshit if Bill comes back and says no he's lying with receipts.

Again there's a reason there's 1 benching we didn't get an explanation for within a couple days, still doesn't have an official explanation out there, has the owner calling it personal, has players leaking to media that it's personal, and has a ton of people at Patriots place who are connected to all the hire ups going around saying it was personal. And frankly there's more than a few Boston reporters who have alluded to what happened and it's been out there. In fact, the biggest elements of it were actually one of the first things the media put out (the Steve Belichick/Malcolm Butler fight).

And there's a reason why whenever people try to say it's a football decision they can never explain why Bill watched his defense have the worst game of the year and didn't go back to the CB who played the most snaps that year and was crying on the sideline of the Super Bowl.

Please list all explanations Belichick has offered the media regarding player benchings...Seymour in 03. Welker in 2010.

I think we've learned quite well how Kraft goes to great efforts to distance himself from issues and lay blame.

Malcolm's benching wasn't a football decision. It was a "coaches decision". You can read into that any way you want.

 

[lancerman]

Please list all explanations Belichick has offered the media regarding player benchings...Seymour in 03. Welker in 2010.

I think we've learned quite well how Kraft goes to great efforts to distance himself from issues and lay blame.

Malcolm's benching wasn't a football decision. It was a "coaches decision". You can read into that any way you want.

Every example you have might have Bill not specifically saying it in a press conference but it was out there before or right after the game. The Welker benching was known going into the game and why it was happening lol. There's one in his history that people don't have a firm exclamation for.

I won't say Kraft is some perfect person who doesn't have an agenda trying to overstate his accomplishments. But realistically there haven't been examples of him making a flagrant accusation at someone and their character publicly that were just blatant lies. And he's not the first person close to the team or even on the team to suggest it was not a decision made in the interest of the team. And again we KNOW Bill has guys in the media who make sure his side of stories get out. We've seen it play out all 2023 season.

I'll go a step further. It wasn't a football decision, it wasn't a coaches decision, it was a "dad decision". And that's why Kraft last year and some high profile players in the media let it be known they felt betrayed by it. Now it's 7 years later and a lot of the bad blood died on it because it was one day out of 20 years of success.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Every example you have might have Bill not specifically saying it in a press conference but it was out there before or right after the game. The Welker benching was known going into the game and why it was happening lol. There's one in his history that people don't have a firm exclamation for.

I won't say Kraft is some perfect person who doesn't have an agenda trying to overstate his accomplishments. But realistically there haven't been examples of him making a flagrant accusation at someone and their character publicly that were just blatant lies. And he's not the first person close to the team or even on the team to suggest it was not a decision made in the interest of the team. And again we KNOW Bill has guys in the media who make sure his side of stories get out. We've seen it play out all 2023 season.

I'll go a step further. It wasn't a football decision, it wasn't a coaches decision, it was a "dad decision". And that's why Kraft last year and some high profile players in the media let it be known they felt betrayed by it. Now it's 7 years later and a lot of the bad blood died on it because it was one day out of 20 years of success.

Thank you for sharing what you believe.

Again, we'll disagree on all points.

 

[lancerman]

Thank you for sharing what you believe.

Again, we'll disagree on all points.

That’s cool.

 

[Tunescribe]

I have long suspected the assumed impact of Butler's benching is overblown. A while back in another of the zillion threads devoted to this, I linked a detailed assessment of the defenses Patricia ran in that game. The game plan was not to stop Philly (which would've been futile, largely because of the Pats' weak pass rush) but slow them down/eat up clock via extremely loose zone play. Then, bank on the offense winning a shootout.

So this idea of Butler spelling the difference between victory and defeat in THAT defense is pretty optimistic, especially since he wasn't necessarily a lockdown corner to begin with.

 

[ahmed]

“Coach’s decision”

And cost us a ring. No doubt about it

This was the day Bill lost my support. Still get pissed off anytime this comes up.

 

[signbabybrady]

This was the day Bill lost my support. Still get pissed off anytime this comes up.

What is that Bill did and why?

 

[aluminum seats]

I try not to get sucked into these things, I really do.

But please. It was an indefensible decision by Belichick.

—Butler played more defensive snaps than anyone else that season, usage that got the Patriots to the Super Bowl.

—He didn’t play a single defensive snap in the Super Bowl, and the Patriots got historically torched by a team led by Nick Foles and lost the Super Bowl.

It was a horrible horrible decision, nothing will ever change that, so let’s just stop talking about it.

 

[PP2]

My understanding of the situation is this:

The Eagles were loaded with really big wide receivers, and Butler had struggled all season with big wide receivers.

Belichick and the coaches informed Butler that the game plan against Philly had Butler moving inside as the slot corner.

Butler, who was about to hit free agency after the game took this as a demotion. He then confronted Steven Belichick about it, and got way out of line in doing so, and may have threatened him, or become physical with him.

Butler then called out sick for the first week of practices.

Belichick then told Butler he wouldn’t be playing against the Eagles

Butler later admitted to causing the problem, and acknowledged that he didn’t know the game plan.

This is also my conjecture.

I believe that prior to practice week for the SB, the coaching staff told Butler he was being moved inside. I believed that BB had designed this both to address Butler's liability against taller receivers, and also to bushwhack Philly with a surprise tweak.

But as you say, Butler, who was already stewing/stressed about the lack of a long term contract which would have assured him of long term security, took this the wrong way (e.g., viewed this as a demotion) and did one or more, or all of the following: had a mental breakdown, confronted SB or Patty, threatened either or both, called in sick, partied, refused to learn the game plan, and missed the team flight.

This would plausibly explain why BB benched Butler for a championship game. Starting a player who doesn't know/refused to learn the game plan is just as bad as not starting him, even if it's a championship game.

Not for a moment do I believe that BB had ever intended to leave Rowe on an island. BB is not that dumb. His hands were forced because he decided to leave Butler out of the rotation, and put Bademosi, a pure ST player in at star. Richards was also left on an island and got torched as well. Leaving a major cog out of the rotation meant a lot less help for other players, especially those left in single coverage. In absolutely no way was this an intended design.

That most corners and safeties were left with a lot of one on one coverage responsibilities, to me, points to a defense gameplan that had to be radically redesigned at the last minute, and rather than risk total disarray, the staff went with safe and simple.

Of course, as we all saw, Philly went right at Rowe from the outset. They also attacked Bademosi and burned him.

 

[signbabybrady]

I try not to get sucked into these things, I really do.

But please. It was an indefensible decision by Belichick.

—Butler played more defensive snaps than anyone else that season, usage that got the Patriots to the Super Bowl.

—He didn’t play a single defensive snap in the Super Bowl, and the Patriots got historically torched by a team led by Nick Foles and lost the Super Bowl.

It was a horrible horrible decision, nothing will ever change that, so let’s just stop talking about it.

Unless you can answer why he did it how do you know it was indefensible?

 

[aluminum seats]

Unless you can answer why it was fine how do you know it was indefensible?

Huh?

 

[Wozzy]

What Butler did with the Titans couldn't be any more irrelevant to that game. Fact: Sans Butler it was Eagles 41 Patriots 33.
And speaking of incompetence how did the personnel that was out there instead of Butler do against Foles? The Eagles players are on record being amused that Rowe was playing instead of Butler. Nuff said. Butler didn't have to be Deion Sanders but there's no question they win it with one or two stops that they don't get with the other guys out there. Yet for some reason Bill decided that having that personnel out there getting smashed by Foles all game was better than the alternative.

They lost because Bill blew it. He had a lot of great coaching moves over the years but this is the worst coaching move in Super Bowl history hands down. Period.

Butler stunk that season, he stunk going forward… but he would have won the game for him. Sounds legit…

 

[Wozzy]

The Patriots lost because the defense was an injury riddled mess. They lost their 350 pound Nose Tackle in Alan Branch, they lost their overall best defensive player in Donta Hightower, their starting slot CB in Jon Jones and lost their Strong Safety in-game in Patrick Chung… that’s why they lost.

Football is won and lost in the trenches. Butler peaked in 2016 and went downhill after that. The notion that he would have played better than Eric Rowe, who was a better player going forward, is just typical clueless fan histrionics and BB hating bullsht. The Eagles #1 ranked offensive line averaged 6 yards per carry rushing, another CB who was playing at a league worst level wouldn’t change anything except to make it worse.

Learn the game…

 

[sb1]

Butler stunk that season, he stunk going forward… but he would have won the game for him. Sounds legit…

And yet he was an upgrade over what they had out there. Yep his presence would have won that game.

Bill blew it. Coaches can't win games but they can lose them and Bill did.

 

[sb1]

The Patriots lost because the defense was an injury riddled mess. They lost their 350 pound Nose Tackle in Alan Branch, they lost their overall best defensive player in Donta Hightower, their starting slot CB in Jon Jones and lost their Strong Safety in-game in Patrick Chung… that’s why they lost.

And the Eagles were missing their starting QB and their starting LT. And still smoked what Bill put out there on the field instead of Butler.

Football is won and lost in the trenches. Butler peaked in 2016 and went downhill after that. The notion that he would have played better than Eric Rowe, who was a better player going forward, is just typical clueless fan histrionics and BB hating bullsht. The Eagles #1 ranked offensive line averaged 6 yards per carry rushing, another CB who was playing at a league worst level wouldn’t change anything except to make it worse.

Complete nonsense. Defend that wall baby

 

[signbabybrady]

Huh?

You can't call something indefensible if you don't know what you're defending

 

[aluminum seats]

You can't call something indefensible if you don't know what you're defending

Sorry, genuinely don’t know what you’re saying