Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Ras-IR Dowling]

There either was a domino effect or Belichick and Patricia are the Milli Vanilli of coaching, considering they never played the best TE cover SS in the league Chung on Ertz, while playing him in the slot, they played Rowe outside instead in the slot, they played DMac on Ertz instead of helping Rowe, then they used Bademosi outside when he played the majority of his previous snaps in the slot.

16-year olds on Madden would have done a better job with the match-ups.

So either this was a horrendous game plan full of mismatches, or it was a good game plan that went sour when Belichick decided to get rid of Butler and handicap the entire defense because of it.

No, just call it what it was, a horrible gameplan that exposed 3 mismatches (ertz agholor and Jeffrey). We made the adjustment on Jeffrey but had no answer for the other 2

 

[Ring 6]

Understood. Terrible decision to stay in the big nickel. Take your chances sacrificing some run defense in order to upgrade the coverage. The only good decision we made on defense the entire night was switching Gilmore to Jeffrey. They still ran well against the big nickel and also exposed two great matchups for them (ertz, agholor).

But the run was the real problem. We got bashed by the run and a lot of the success in the passing game was because of it.
You can’t go smaller when they are running all over you.

The more I look at this the more i think people ar overlooking that the eagles offense played great. The OL dominated in the run gane and stoned the pass rush. Any team can throw when they are running well and getting all day to throw. Most of the big pass plays had guys very close in coverage, it’s not like receivers were running around wide open.
Ultimately the secondary was probably the least of the problem.

 

[Ring 6]

No, just call it what it was, a horrible gameplan that exposed 3 mismatches (ertz agholor and Jeffrey). We made the adjustment on Jeffrey but had no answer for the other 2

What are you going to do?
You install a game plan and your cb2 struggles to pick up what you want him to do. Then he apparently has a meltdown.

You are left with what you have. McCourty and chung each coveted Ertz a lot.

 

[Boomer B]

That’s not a butker issue that’s a decision to play big nickel.
The big nickel was obviously used because of their OL and running gane and even then we didn’t hold up.
If we played regular nickel we probably would have allowed 250 rushing yards.

Bademosi played many downs with 3 cbs on the field. There was a domino effect. It was absolute insanity to have Patrick Chung covering Nelson Agholor.

I’m of the opinion Belichick is the best of his era, but this was an epic failure from him. If the game plan was big nickel and he couldn’t adjust = failure. If Butler was benched due to his performance like Shefter and others confirmed and Belichick was unwilling to put him in after he played 98% of the snaps this year = epic failure. Either way, this falls in Belichick’s lap.

 

[Kargetina]

No, just call it what it was, a horrible gameplan that exposed 3 mismatches (ertz agholor and Jeffrey). We made the adjustment on Jeffrey but had no answer for the other 2

But we don't know that. Johnson is pretending like he was in the room where the big dime was prepared as the game plan.

Rowe had no idea he was starting. Butler had no idea he was benched. The game plan is far more likely to have been modified once Butler was out rather than sticking with the idea that these coaches are so clueless that they thought our best corner is best suited for their #3 receiver, our #3 CB is best suited for their #1 WR, the best TE cover in our team is best suited for playing in the slot while TE was left to wreak havoc and Bademosi was playing a role he had no business doing it.

If Belichick benched Butler and had that travesty of a game plan regardless of that...well i have nothing else to add to this topic.

 

[Boomer B]

But the run was the real problem. We got bashed by the run and a lot of the success in the passing game was because of it.
You can’t go smaller when they are running all over you.

The more I look at this the more i think people ar overlooking that the eagles offense played great. The OL dominated in the run gane and stoned the pass rush. Any team can throw when they are running well and getting all day to throw. Most of the big pass plays had guys very close in coverage, it’s not like receivers were running around wide open.
Ultimately the secondary was probably the least of the problem.

That doesn’t explain why on 3rd and long (which they converted many of) we had Patrick Chung on Nelson Agholor or Bademosi missing tackles. Running and Big Nickel didn’t have anything to do with many of those 3rd and long conversions.

 

[supafly]

Exactly, we used a safety or two safety’s in slots that should be a corner slot. That’s the domino. Benching Butler put safeties in positions to cover wide receivers. It failed miserably.

It did fail miserably, but is it a coincidence that it’s the exact same personnel grouping used against the KC run/pass/option offense? We used 4 safeties and 2 CBs against them too, and gave up 40+ to both of them.

 

[skinnydog]

So since you haven’t read a report about something that would never get reporters any way that means thr fand plan they used was the game plan they installed? THAT is something that would get reported.
If you seriously think they scrapped the entire game plan Sunday afternoon and created a new one and no one has commented on that yet you are delusional.




Rowe was with the 1s all week. Reiss says the captains new butler would play a diminished role days before the game.
Not sure why Rowe practicing as a starter but not realizing until kickoff it was official is meaningful.


Half of Richards snaps were when chung was injured. The other half was a package to match up against something thry saw.

I’m lost about what you are arguing.

We watched the gane plan but now it seems you are arguing it wasnt he gane plan

So you really think the game plan the coaches came up with during the Superbowl bye week was to dust off the 4 safety game plans from the beginning of the year that failed miserably and use them for the Super Bowl? Are you serious? I guess that I’m lost at what you are arguing. You seem to think the game plan all along was that the coaches said, you know this CB we’ve started all year and who has played in 98% of the defensive snaps, we’ll. That’s been our problem all along. What we really need are those mediocre to bad Safeties on the field a lot. Guess B.B. shared his game plan with you so you are certain it was the plan all along and not a product of some last minute shuffling which is what it appeared to be.

And yes, Rowe not knowing he was the starter until just before kick off does indicate the plan was shifting or not fully rolled out to the team.

 

[skinnydog]

It did fail miserably, but is it a coincidence that it’s the exact same personnel grouping used against the KC run/pass/option offense? We used 4 safeties and 2 CBs against them too, and gave up 40+ to both of them.

The result is not a coincidence at all. It’s just really hard to believe the coaching staff thought the way to win was to go with that game plan that resulted in Alex Smith having the best game of his career

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

What are you going to do?
You install a game plan and your cb2 struggles to pick up what you want him to do. Then he apparently has a meltdown.

You are left with what you have. McCourty and chung each coveted Ertz a lot.

That’s speculating. Im not going to 100% call a guy crying after finding out before kickoff that he wasn’t playing a meltdown.

He very well could’ve struggled in practice. Doesn’t necessarily mean it would translate in the game. He’s been a starting corner all year and we’ve played the big nickel a lot this year, he knows the system. Executing is a whole other story but giving up pts on every possession minus the Harmon pick, he needed to be inserted at some point

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly, we used a safety or two safety’s in slots that should be a corner slot. That’s the domino. Benching Butler put safeties in positions to cover wide receivers. It failed miserably.

No it’s not a domino effect. It’s the scheme. If butler was in the field Rowe would not have been

 

[Kargetina]

It did fail miserably, but is it a coincidence that it’s the exact same personnel grouping used against the KC run/pass/option offense? We used 4 safeties and 2 CBs against them too, and gave up 40+ to both of them.

Which is why it makes absolutely no sense that that was the game plan

No it’s not a domino effect. It’s the scheme. If butler was in the field Rowe would not have been

You have no idea what the scheme was. No idea whatsoever. None.

You're doing nothing but constantly repeating what you saw on the field as the starting formation. Whether that was the game plan before Butler was benched, you have no knowledge of. Stop pretending like you were in the huddle during the creation of the game plan.

Either they changed the game plan or they went with the same game plan that allowed 42 points, the most in the B/B era...which was followed by 41 points, and 530+ yards, second most in the B/B era.

So either Belichick is a total buffoon or they modified the game plan when Butler was benched. Pick one.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

we never lost to the chargers in an afc title game

NE did get completely destroyed by the Chargers in the 1963 AFL Championship.

 

[Ring 6]

Bademosi played many downs with 3 cbs on the field. There was a domino effect. It was absolute insanity to have Patrick Chung covering Nelson Agholor.

Bademosi played 11 snaps many of which were with chung out.
Maybe you don’t understand what a domino effect is. On more than 90% of the snaps the scheme called for EITHER butler or Rowe.

It’s no surprise we played big nickel since we played in more than regular nickel during the season and this opponent was a typical opponent we would use it against.

I’m of the opinion Belichick is the best of his era, but this was an epic failure from him. If the game plan was big nickel and he couldn’t adjust = failure.

What adjustment are you looking for? His front 7 got manhandled. They couldn’t stop the run and they couldn’t sniff the qb. Going smaller isn’t the answer to that.

If Butler was benched due to his performance like Shefter and others confirmed and Belichick was unwilling to put him in after he played 98% of the snaps this year = epic failure. Either way, this falls in Belichick’s lap.

So is butler sucked in practice and couldn’t pick up the way they wanted him to play you just put him in and let him suck because he played 98% of the snaps?

It’s like you are trying to say bill belichick looked at this and was afraid to put butler on the field because of the level of pkay he expected from him, a drastic, surely difficult and painful decision for him and you are saying you can make that decision better than him. Why would you think that?
You think belichick isn’t qualified to recognize a player isn’t ready to play?

 

[Ring 6]

Which is why it makes absolutely no sense that that was the game plan


You have no idea what the scheme was. No idea whatsoever. None.

Of course I do. They played it.

You're doing nothing but constantly repeating what you saw on the field as the starting formation. Whether that was the game plan before Butler was benched, you have no knowledge of. Stop pretending like you were in the huddle during the creation of the game plan.

.
So you think they put in a game plan and practiced it all week then ditched it and made up another one in the fly?
That’s ridiculous.

Either they changed the game plan or they went with the same game plan that allowed 42 points, the most in the B/B era...which was followed by 41 points, and 530+ yards, second most in the B/B era.

It wasn’t the same game plan. Not sure why you think that.

So either Belichick is a total buffoon or they modified the game plan when Butler was benched. Pick one.

Or you are the total buffoon.

 

[Ring 6]

That doesn’t explain why on 3rd and long (which they converted many of) we had Patrick Chung on Nelson Agholor or Bademosi missing tackles. Running and Big Nickel didn’t have anything to do with many of those 3rd and long conversions.

There were not many 3rd and long plays. Playing a dime package with 4 safeties to deal with a good TE and dangerous receiving backs when your LBs can’t cover isn’t crazy.

Bademosi mussed one tackle.

 

[Ring 6]

That’s speculating. Im not going to 100% call a guy crying after finding out before kickoff that he wasn’t playing a meltdown.

There are other things being said that make that seem reasonable.
Plus if there wasn’t a melt down they would have gotten him on the field even if to just play man for a few snaps.
Either you believe belichick suddenly made a decision unlike any other he has made in his career or you believe butler did something to force his hand. I don’t need to put more that one second of thought into that to be confident I know the answer.

He very well could’ve struggled in practice. Doesn’t necessarily mean it would translate in the game

But Bill Belichick decided it would. Are you saying you are better qualified?

. He’s been a starting corner all year and we’ve played the big nickel a lot this year, he knows the system. Executing is a whole other story but giving up pts on every possession minus the Harmon pick, he needed to be inserted at some point

Why?
If you think he is not going to be able to help you why would you put him in? You would be making a decision to make it worse.

 

[Ring 6]

So you really think the game plan the coaches came up with during the Superbowl bye week was to dust off the 4 safety game plans from the beginning of the year that failed miserably and use them for the Super Bowl? Are you serious?

No because that’s not the game plan they used. The game plan had elements of what they did vs kc which makes sense because it’s exactky the same offensive scheme.
It wasn’t the same game plan. .

I guess that I’m lost at what you are arguing. You seem to think the game plan all along was that the coaches said, you know this CB we’ve started all year and who has played in 98% of the defensive snaps, we’ll. That’s been our problem all along. What we really need are those mediocre to bad Safeties on the field a lot. Guess B.B. shared his game plan with you so you are certain it was the plan all along and not a product of some last minute shuffling which is what it appeared to be.

The game plan is what they did.
The gane plan was to play big nickel and the result was a minimal role for the 3rd corner. That is why it isn’t a “domino effect”. If butler had his head in straight Rowe would have played a handful of snaps.

And yes, Rowe not knowing he was the starter until just before kick off does indicate the plan was shifting or not fully rolled out to the team.

Rowe worked with the 1s all week. He was fully prepared.

 

[PatsDeb]

Eagles took full advantage of belichick's blunder.

I was at the game. They were giddy.

 

[Ring 6]

That doesn’t explain why on 3rd and long (which they converted many of)

The completed only one 3td and more than 7