Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[TheRainMaker]

Would have been 6 if he didn’t go full ******. Anyway, “forgiveness” entails that you’re now aware that he was wrong. Otherwise there would be nothing to forgive. So at least you’re making progress now.

And I think they could've had more. To think how many opportunities they've had and only have 5 seems quite low. Seasons that come to mind are blowing the AFC Title game in '06, not being able to adjust to the Giants D in '07, losing to an inferior Jets team in 2010, not being able to step on the Giants throat when up 17-9 in 2011, losing at home to an inferior Baltimore team in 2012 (I do think the would've lost to SF in the Super Bowl), tanking the last two games of the season and losing home field advantage in 2015 ( I think they would've lost to Carolina as well) and now this year's Super Bowl.

 

[supafly]

Despite Bulter's "drop off" in play, there was nobody on the team that was better than him. NOBODY!

Not sure why the term *drop off* is in quotes, but Butler clearly struggled at times this past season. That’s not even up for debate. He was benched for a small time in the opener (until another player was injured) and there were rumors that they were close to sitting him in the AFCCG.

That certainly doesn’t excuse the fact that he didn’t play, but again, unless you have all of the inside knowledge and facts, why speculate on what happened? All we know is that Belichick sat a good player for unknown reasons and believed that the team could still compete. As we know, it was faulty logic, but why pile on with the extremes? This is the best coach in the history of the game.

The preponderance of evidence leads a reasonable person to believe Belichick benched Butler not because it gave his team the best chance to win which is his job but out of a fit of anger against a player he obviously didn’t like or, as I suspect, as an act of revenge against an owner who for the first time in 17 years didn’t let him have his way.

I think it’s comments like this that tend to want me to defend Belichick, because they’re so far fetched and silly. What’s wrong with simply calling it what it is and admitting that while it wasn’t a good decision, we don’t really have all of the facts that went into it, either?

Just the suggestion of a coach and all of his staff spending endless nights planning year round for a shot at the title, only to purposefully throw a game (think about having the name Belichick and these words in the same sentence) to “stick it to the owner,” ‘cause, naturally, they couldn’t have done that in the weeks leading to the SB by losing on purpose in any other game. Belichick is so sneaky that benching any other player would’ve been too obvious. He had to wait to do it to the CB2 against the high powered passing attack of Nick Foles. This theory is ridiculous, plain and simple.

 

[IcyPatriot]

 

[Brewskies]

I can't believe that this subject is still being beat to death.
Movng on........

 

[Ring 6]

No, but you deciding not to block me anymore makes me feel like crying.

You should appreciate the education

You didn’t offer a reasonable explanation. Not playing your starting quarterback who played 98% of the snaps throughout the season and watching your team put on a historically bad defensive performance on the notion of “lack of focus” is vague and moronic. It’s sad you don’t think so but you’ve got blinders on.

How is the way a football player prepares for the SB “vague”. He sucked it practice. He wasn’t getting the game plan. He wasn’t “dialed in” on a team the requires you to be dialed in. THOSE ARE BUTLERS OWN WORDS.
There is nothing vague about that and if you think practice is meaningless and demoting a player because he was terrible in practice is moronic then I can only assume you never played football or have any clue how coaches think.

I get that you felt entitled to winning the SB and your coping mechanism is to blame someone. But you said no one had offered a hypothetical that makes sense and the one I offered absolutely does and I offered it shorty after the game.

Please explain to me if there was no reason for Belichick to bench butler and no possible explanation that would make sense to you, why did he do it?

 

[chasa]

I can't believe that this subject is still being beat to death.
Movng on........

Really?

You can't understand why possibly the biggest reason the Patriots lost the superbowl, is still be talked about? The reasoning behind the choice to bench the #2 CB that hadn't missed a start in three years, and then got ZERO snaps in the biggest game of the year, still shrouded in mystery and "Sources" full of "Rumors".

Yeah me too man, Super surprised there is still a discussion going on here. :RollEyes:

 

[Ring 6]

You have to love how people want to end a debate when they know they’ve lost.

Two things: First, no one should ever concern themselves with what a Jets fan might think. Secondly, there are many people incarcerated tonight based on circumstantial evidence only.

You lost me here

The preponderance of evidence leads a reasonable person to believe Belichick benched Butler not because it gave his team the best chance to win which is his job but out of a fit of anger against a player he obviously didn’t like or, as I suspect, as an act of revenge against an owner who for the first time in 17 years didn’t let him have his way.

I don’t think you understand what preponderance of evidence means.
The only “evidence” you have is an unsourced bs ESPN hit job report that has been refuted by:
Belichick
Kraft
John Lynch

So your argument is that an ESPN writer citing an unnamed source says something happened and everyone involved says it didn’t and that means the “preponderance” is the uninvolved guy is telling the truth and the 3 participants are lying. That is just ridiculous.

Why does it matter? Well, bad judgement leads to more bad judgement especially when emotions govern those decisions. Who knows maybe Belichick would trade another all-pro LB for another conditional 3rd rounder, or a possible franchise QB for only a 2nd rounder. Then, he can trade the GOAT TE for a 3rd rounder to a team he trusts. What!

So now Belichick lacks judgment?
Perhaps he should be fired.

 

[Ring 6]

Really?

You can't understand why possibly the biggest reason the Patriots lost the superbowl, is still be talked about? The reasoning behind the choice to bench the #2 CB that hadn't missed a start in three years, and then got ZERO snaps in the biggest game of the year, still shrouded in mystery and "Sources" full of "Rumors".

Yeah me too man, Super surprised there is still a discussion going on here. :RollEyes:

Has any other personell decision in BBs Carter in New England been publicly discussed by the coach?
The coach is what he is and he benched a player and simply is never going to public trash that player by explaining why.

Im sure there are things Belichick could be better at. Im sure that it’s possible that we could change a bit or piece of him a d his mindset and it would be better in some situations.
But you get the whole package, good or bad.
And it’s moronic to think that for the last 18 years the results would be better with anyone else in charge. He is the best ever.

So while you exalt in the successes because of his system, mentality and management you also cry when they fall short.
That is the definition of a hypocrit.

 

[Angelpats]

You should appreciate the education


How is the way a football player prepares for the SB “vague”. He sucked it practice. He wasn’t getting the game plan. He wasn’t “dialed in” on a team the requires you to be dialed in. THOSE ARE BUTLERS OWN WORDS.
There is nothing vague about that and if you think practice is meaningless and demoting a player because he was terrible in practice is moronic then I can only assume you never played football or have any clue how coaches think.

I get that you felt entitled to winning the SB and your coping mechanism is to blame someone. But you said no one had offered a hypothetical that makes sense and the one I offered absolutely does and I offered it shorty after the game.

Please explain to me if there was no reason for Belichick to bench butler and no possible explanation that would make sense to you, why did he do it?

It’s not the benching people are upset with. It’s the adjustments that weren’t made. Our secondary was getting roasted and something needed to be changed. No matter how bad Butler was practicing it couldn’t be any worse than Richards.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s not the benching people are upset with. It’s the adjustments that weren’t made. Our secondary was getting roasted and something needed to be changed. No matter how bad Butler was practicing it couldn’t be any worse than Richards.

People are literally complaining about the benching.
I believe Butler was the cb3 when B.B. set the inactives.
I believe Butlers meltdown when finding that out led to Belichick to feel he wasn’t an option that day.

So he made adjustments, just not ones including a guy he felt wasn’t able to help him that day.
And Richards snake would have been exactly the same whether butler played 0 snaps or all of them. It’s a different position and Richards played his normal snaps.

 

[Angelpats]

People are literally complaining about the benching.
I believe Butler was the cb3 when B.B. set the inactives.
I believe Butlers meltdown when finding that out led to Belichick to feel he wasn’t an option that day.

So he made adjustments, just not ones including a guy he felt wasn’t able to help him that day.
And Richards snake would have been exactly the same whether butler played 0 snaps or all of them. It’s a different position and Richards played his normal snaps.

I’ve forgotten so much about that game now. Butler was on inactive list that game? People complain about everything though. I’m talking about the more rational folks here, who say bench him for punishment but try him at least later in the game since we couldn’t stop them. That’s assuming he was even active.

 

[Kontradiction]

People are literally complaining about the benching.
I believe Butler was the cb3 when B.B. set the inactives.
I believe Butlers meltdown when finding that out led to Belichick to feel he wasn’t an option that day.

So he made adjustments, just not ones including a guy he felt wasn’t able to help him that day.
And Richards snake would have been exactly the same whether butler played 0 snaps or all of them. It’s a different position and Richards played his normal snaps.

The bolded is rich coming from the guy that celebrated dealing in “facts” multiple times throughout this thread.

 

[Steve102]

I can't believe that this subject is still being beat to death.
Movng on........

Right? There's nothing new. Everytime I see this thread I look to see if there's new news. Every damn time, and still nothing. Just the same old point being brought up over and over. 285 pages of nothing.

I get that people are frustrated with Bill and his 1) decision, and 2) lack of information. I think at this point, we are waiting for the book, or the VH1 Behind the Music special or something. Belichick has moved on. IMO, He expects everyone else to move on too, meaning players and staff. He's not going to have a epiphany and suddenly change his entire mantra and coaching style to suit a select group of elite players or to placate us. BB made the wrong call, and he's on to Houston. Next.

 

[ralmat55]

1. Who is the Jets fan that responded in this thread?

2. Some of those people who are incarcerated based purely on circumstantial evidence are most certainly innocent, so I’m not understanding the analogy.

L

The previous post which I didn’t quote by jimnance mentioned how Jet’ fans thought about our unwillingness to let this go.

Some probably are. There are innocent people there who had witnesses say they were guilty. It’s a messy world. I was trying to point out that you don’t have to have a confession, witnesses or physical evidence to assess guilt. If you walk outside and the grass is wet, you don’t have to have seen or heard it rain to know it did.

When months pass and no credible reports come out about a player’s breach of discipline and with another team run by people the Coach “trusts” giving said player a good chunk of guaranteed money to come play for them might lead a reasonable person to believe the coach’s decision to bench the player was not based on talent or breach of discipline. That’s circumstantial evidence.

 

[Ring 6]

I’ve forgotten so much about that game now. Butler was on inactive list that game? People complain about everything though. I’m talking about the more rational folks here, who say bench him for punishment but try him at least later in the game since we couldn’t stop them. That’s assuming he was even active.

He was active, what I was saying was after the inactives were announced things changed with him melting down.

I don’t think it was punishment at all. I think it was a coach feeling a player wasn’t mentally ready to help the team.
I don’t know how that changes. I don’t know how a coach says hey let’s try that guy that I think doesn’t have his head in the game and see what happens. To me, butler just wasn’t an option any more than if he broke his leg on the opening kickoff.
Again if you think that’s not true, what was the reason?

 

[aluminum seats]

How is the way a football player prepares for the SB “vague”. He sucked it practice. He wasn’t getting the game plan. He wasn’t “dialed in” on a team the requires you to be dialed in. THOSE ARE BUTLERS OWN WORDS.
There is nothing vague about that and if you think practice is meaningless and demoting a player because he was terrible in practice is moronic then I can only assume you never played football or have any clue how coaches think.

I get that you felt entitled to winning the SB and your coping mechanism is to blame someone. But you said no one had offered a hypothetical that makes sense and the one I offered absolutely does and I offered it shorty after the game.

Please explain to me if there was no reason for Belichick to bench butler and no possible explanation that would make sense to you, why did he do it?

Saying he "lacked focus" is vague. As to BUTLER'S OWN WORDS, he also said "they quit on me." So if you put stock in Butler's words...

"Terrible in practice" is speculation, and does nothing to address the fact that Belichick stayed with a decision that was backfiring on an historic level.

Your hypothetical makes zero sense as a rationale for not correcting the decision. Your position is because Belichick made the decision it was the right one. I think Belichick is a great coach who effed up massively here.

 

[Ring 6]

Saying he "lacked focus" is vague. As to BUTLER'S OWN WORDS, he also said "they quit on me." So if you put stock in Butler's words...

It’s not vague at all.
Those were not Butlers words. Butlers words were “the lost faith in me”.

"Terrible in practice" is speculation, and does nothing to address the fact that Belichick stayed with a decision that was backfiring on an historic level.

You asked for a hypothetical and now you dismiss it because it’s speculation. Too funny.
And butler himself said he had trouble in practice.

Your hypothetical makes zero sense as a rationale for not correcting the decision. Your position is because Belichick made the decision it was the right one. I think Belichick is a great coach who effed up massively here.

My hypothetical makes perfect sense which is why the only way you can argue against it is by making stupid claims like vague or speculation.
I never said the decision was right I said it was made for a reason that the smartest football guy Ive ever seen believed was the right thing.

Please explain why you think he did it.

 

[Angelpats]

He was active, what I was saying was after the inactives were announced things changed with him melting down.

I don’t think it was punishment at all. I think it was a coach feeling a player wasn’t mentally ready to help the team.
I don’t know how that changes. I don’t know how a coach says hey let’s try that guy that I think doesn’t have his head in the game and see what happens. To me, butler just wasn’t an option any more than if he broke his leg on the opening kickoff.
Again if you think that’s not true, what was the reason?

It looked like he was truly sad he wasn’t playing and he cried. That’s all. I don’t want to say it was a mental breakdown, since some of his teammates were surprised he wasn’t playing either, even during game time. I think he did something stupid and coach punished him. He has done that many times. Welkers foot joke, and Moss and many other being late for practice. It has to be something else than a mental breakdown, because B.B. has been forgiven to players in regards to health. He would still be on our team if it was just a mental breakdown. He was let go from the team without the slightest struggle. That’s my opinion though.

 

[Ring 6]

It looked like he was truly sad he wasn’t playing and he cried. That’s all. I don’t want to say it was a mental breakdown, since some of his teammates were surprised he wasn’t playing either, even during game time. I think he did something stupid and coach punished him. He has done that many times. Welkers foot joke, and Moss and many other being late for practice. It has to be something else than a mental breakdown, because B.B. has been forgiven to players in regards to health. He would still be on our team if it was just a mental breakdown. He was let go from the team without the slightest struggle. That’s my opinion though.

You saw the national anthem you didn’t see what happened leading up to it.
If it wasn’t a breakdown why didn’t he play?

He was a free agent and was never coming back, we didn’t agree with his contract demands. That’s why he left, not the Sb.

 

[Kontradiction]

It’s not vague at all.
Those were not Butlers words. Butlers words were “the lost faith in me”.

Good grief...

Malcolm Butler: "They gave up on me"

"They gave up on me. F—. It is what it is," Butler told Reiss and Schefter. "I don't know what it was. I guess I wasn't playing good or they didn't feel comfortable. I don't know. But I could have changed that game."