Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[RobertWeathers]

And now “unnamed sources” are leaking things to the press. Anyone still in denial that the 2017 locker room was an issue?

An issue in what way? Did it actually impact wins and losses?

 

[Ring 6]

Because this is what's happening on this board. When it's a report criticizing Belichick, all of a sudden it's not reliable and unless we have named sources people don't want to believe it. When it's bad regarding Butler whether it's a tweet by some random dude nobody heard of or some unnamed players, all of a sudden it's the truth and we should believe it full stop and the discussion should end and we shouldn't even discuss whether it impacted the game.

I think you have that exactly backward. This board is stringing belichick up by his gonads and honoring the poor innocent butler.
People are literally saying they believe belichick threw the game.

 

[RayClay]

In recent interviews, Butler says he wasn't locked in. If you aren't prepared, you don't play. I think the bigger issue was the lack i every phase of the front seven which didn't allow for adjustments. Other teams would have gambled that talent would overcome mental lapses, but not BB.

 

[Love The Drake]

I think you have that exactly backward. This board is stringing belichick up by his gonads and honoring the poor innocent butler.
People are literally saying they believe belichick threw the game.

Not this guy

 

[Ring 6]

The question with Butler never has been why was he benched, we had enough breadcrumbs on that already. He had a subpar season that compared to 2015 and 2016 was simply bad. He missed practice reps during SB prep and then had according to reports a pretty bad week when he actually did practice. I never had a problem with BB benching him and strategically it made sense to me.

The sticking point for many will simply be why none of the adjustments included Butler when it became obvious that we had big issues stopping the Eagles. Personally I think Butler had one more (verbal?) meltdown in the hours before the game when he realized that he would not play a big role and got his ass totally benched. Maybe this even happened right after the inactives were declared.

Either way some will blame BB for "being arrogant" despite historically always doing everything he can to put the team in a better position to win a game. For me this will always be more on Butler not being able to hold it together for one more game which was the friggin SB. Yes, BB could have thrown a player in that had bad practices and missed time with a illness or just trust the players and their preparation. Like he did against the Seahawks when he benched Arrington and brought Butler on the field.

Whatever.. it is over now and a new season awaits..

I agree with the meltdown comments, in fact it was obvious during the national anthem. If only he would gave just taken a knee instead...

 

[lancerman]

I think you have that exactly backward. This board is stringing belichick up by his gonads and honoring the poor innocent butler.
People are literally saying they believe belichick threw the game.

Nobody thinks he deliberately threw it. They think he made a decision on Butler and was too stubborn to move from it when his Plan A wasn't working and he should have just gone back to the defense that made the team a top 5 defense in points on the season.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Could it have been a case of Butler probably working on his future during the two weeks before superbowl with the Titans and the Team and BB got to know?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think it's pretty clear by now Malcolm was not prepared to play in the SB. He and his teammates have both said this.

He did something that clearly was a non-negotiable no-no with BB.

After being here for 4 years, I find it hard to believe Malcolm doesn't know what he did wrong.

The question is could have a 1/2 ready Malcolm be better than Badman and Richards?

I don’t think it was Bill who necessarily was the impetus. He had the final decision but either patricia or boyer made the suggestion to bench him.

 

[TBR]

Because this is what's happening on this board. When it's a report criticizing Belichick, all of a sudden it's not reliable and unless we have named sources people don't want to believe it. When it's bad regarding Butler whether it's a tweet by some random dude nobody heard of or some unnamed players, all of a sudden it's the truth and we should believe it full stop and the discussion should end and we shouldn't even discuss whether it impacted the game.

Bill could've benched Brady for his Tom Vs Time series and some would've defended it.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

My final take on the SB is this: BB did make 2 huge mistakes but I don’t necessarily put Butler’s benching as one of them since none of us know what the deal was with him. As I see it it the mistakes were:

1. While B.B. has a game plan for a SB in the HOF (literally), this one should go in the hall of shame. It was doomed from the jump, and there were no adjustments...the next reason reveals what’s i believe to be the reason why.

2. I can’t recall a bigger miss with personnel than Jordan Richards. At no time ever has he shown he can cover...anyone. I think he was being asked to do things which he physically can not do. To me this game was over the moment BB/Patricia decided that Richards could play a meaningful role. Guy is an ok special teams player and THAT IS IT. We actually had pressure early a few times but Foles had guys wide open on the first move...too easy.

 

[signbabybrady]

Nobody thinks he deliberately threw it. They think he made a decision on Butler and was too stubborn to move from it when his Plan A wasn't working and he should have just gone back to the defense that made the team a top 5 defense in points on the season.

Stubborn or the incident had enough merit to warrant no going back?

To me the only question remains is why did he even dress him? And why did/does he continue to cover up for Butler?

The only thing I got is he wanted to avoid further distraction as best he could by pretending with the public nothing was happening up until kickoff when everyone could see clear as day.

Then he continues because what's done is done and he won't throw someone under the bus.

 

[Ring 6]

Nobody thinks he deliberately threw it. They think he made a decision on Butler and was too stubborn to move from it when his Plan A wasn't working and he should have just gone back to the defense that made the team a top 5 defense in points on the season.

There have literally been comments on this board saying they believe belichick threw the game. You may have not seen them but I’ve read more than a couple.

 

[maineman209]

Because this is what's happening on this board. When it's a report criticizing Belichick, all of a sudden it's not reliable and unless we have named sources people don't want to believe it. When it's bad regarding Butler whether it's a tweet by some random dude nobody heard of or some unnamed players, all of a sudden it's the truth and we should believe it full stop and the discussion should end and we shouldn't even discuss whether it impacted the game.

Well, Butler himself has publicly admitted that he'd been ill (didn't travel with the team and had sought treatment at a hospital) and was still not well by Wednesday's practice and didn't perform well in that practice.

 

[maineman209]

Whatever the factors are they "were not without merit" assuming this true X and Os don't matter Butler is to blame and not the coaches.

BB didn't do himself any favors by covering this up and left a lot in the air to speculate about but if it had merit than what's the point in discussing Xs and Os? If there needed to be an event with merit to cause his benching we can assume without the event the Xs would have matched the Os differently but BB felt there was no choice.

I don't know that BB is "covering up" anything. He's always been extremely reticent about discussing players in anything but positive terms, has always ducked questions about player health issues, and never discusses strategy except in the most general terms. So, he has pretty much just stuck to his own code by not commenting on the Butler-SB situation.

As far as Butler being to blame, if it was mostly a health issue, that's not really his fault. If there was something else related to previous performance, that's another matter.

 

[Simpelton]

I think it's pretty clear by now Malcolm was not prepared to play in the SB. He and his teammates have both said this.

He did something that clearly was a non-negotiable no-no with BB.

After being here for 4 years, I find it hard to believe Malcolm doesn't know what he did wrong.

The question is could have a 1/2 ready Malcolm be better than Badman and Richards?

There is no goal higher on BB's priority tree than winning Superbowls. If he benched Malcolm, then not only was it a non-negotiable dealbreaker, but it was something worth firing a man on the spot that you were counting on to help carry you.

In other words, if it's "not without merit" to bench your CB2 over whatever this was, risking your chances to win the big game in order to enforce this rule whatever it was, it was pretty ****ing serious.

My personal unfounded speculation is that not only did Butler get into a fight with a coach, but that that coach was Steve Belichick. That's about the only thing I can think of that might make BB see red enough to lose sight of the bigger picture.

"Not only are you completely out of control, not only would tolerating your behavior undermine everything I've built this franchise into over 17 years, not only has your behavior put your ability to actually do your job at risk even if I put you in the field, but you ****ing hit my son. You are done here."

 

[Love The Drake]

There is no goal higher on BB's priority tree than winning Superbowls. If he benched Malcolm, then not only was it a non-negotiable dealbreaker, but it was something worth firing a man on the spot that you were counting on to help carry you.

In other words, if it's "not without merit" to bench your CB2 over whatever this was, risking your chances to win the big game in order to enforce this rule whatever it was, it was pretty ****ing serious.

My personal unfounded speculation is that not only did Butler get into a fight with a coach, but that that coach was Steve Belichick. That's about the only thing I can think of that might make BB see red enough to lose sight of the bigger picture.

"Not only are you completely out of control, not only would tolerating your behavior undermine everything I've built this franchise into over 17 years, not only has your behavior put your ability to actually do your job at risk even if I put you in the field, but you ****ing hit my son. You are done here."

Crazy to think about it I wouldn't say he hit him but disrespect him I could buy that.
As someone had said Butler wasn't his dominate or playnaking self he wasn't much of a upgrade from at with Jonathan Jones and Gilmore clearly shined and dominated showing BB knew exactly what to do with the money.
I feel Butler was biatching all year behind closed doors to certain players Dion Lewis? Gronk? Brady? Among others
He did something really selfish got high before practice? Cussed out or pushed a coach?
Something for the comment to be he was selfish he wasn't locked in or focused.
My take he was benched knowing that it would impact the game but also show that the inmates aren't running the asylum and what more impactful way to show the team that nobody is above them then to bench the Reigning Superbowl hero where any other franchise he would have a pass for life.
This is what being a Patriot fan is all about you marvel at BBs brass balls and say he absolutely did the right thing but you cry a little he's not Mike Tomlin or Petey Carrol and play the guy anyway knowing it's the fricking Superbowl.
This was very much a short time loss for long time gain kind of move in BBs eyes.
I'd love to know exactly what Malcom did to be benched on the biggest stage.
Either way I support Belichick and the coaching staff.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don’t think it was Bill who necessarily was the impetus. He had the final decision but either patricia or boyer made the suggestion to bench him.

Yes but Bill has final say. Always.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Some have not moved on yet.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There is no goal higher on BB's priority tree than winning Superbowls. If he benched Malcolm, then not only was it a non-negotiable dealbreaker, but it was something worth firing a man on the spot that you were counting on to help carry you.

In other words, if it's "not without merit" to bench your CB2 over whatever this was, risking your chances to win the big game in order to enforce this rule whatever it was, it was pretty ****ing serious.

My personal unfounded speculation is that not only did Butler get into a fight with a coach, but that that coach was Steve Belichick. That's about the only thing I can think of that might make BB see red enough to lose sight of the bigger picture.

"Not only are you completely out of control, not only would tolerating your behavior undermine everything I've built this franchise into over 17 years, not only has your behavior put your ability to actually do your job at risk even if I put you in the field, but you ****ing hit my son. You are done here."

Yep.

Not sure about the BB Jr part but there is no way in hell a player who logs 98% of the snaps not play in the biggest game of the year unless something of epic proportions went down

 

[Kontradiction]

Still no one you'd want running the ship more so let's not perpetuate this myth of some fractured dysfunctional locker room. Also these leaks were players siding with BB.

There’s a difference between a locker room with issues and a fractured locker room. But I’m sure you’re aware of that.