Mac Not Happy With the Groceries

[sb1]

It's not QB purgatory until it's been proven Zappe and Grier suck... then it's purgatory.

I would say it's purgatory if there isn't a firm QB1.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Then why take a kicker that high that he didn't want? Could have also kept Folk if he wanted to...

I think he liked Ryland but really didn't like the one after Ryland.

He could have kept Folk, but Folk's range was diminishing and it meant keeping someone else who could do kickoffs.

 

[Wozzy]

I would say it's purgatory if there isn't a firm QB1.

We don't know that unless we give the other two a real opportunity... not a few passes in garbage time of a blowout.

We'll see...

 

[sb1]

We don't know that unless we give the other two a real opportunity... not a few passes in garbage time of a blowout.

We'll see...

Only Grier hasn't had an opportunity IMO. Zappe has. It's not like Zappe is making much of a case for himself anyway passing for 39% comp and 4.4 yards per attempt when the other defense has stopped trying. I think the team is already done with him IMO they're just waiting for Grier to be ready. BB said as much...

 

[sb1]

I think he liked Ryland but really didn't like the one after Ryland.

He could have kept Folk, but Folk's range was diminishing and it meant keeping someone else who could do kickoffs.

The rookie for GB looks like he could do what Ryland is doing and he was picked in the 6th... I keep going back to Janikowski that should be the bar imo for picking a kicker earlier than usual.

 

[Wozzy]

Only Grier hasn't had an opportunity IMO. Zappe has. It's not like Zappe is making much of a case for himself anyway passing for 39% comp and 4.4 yards per attempt when the other defense has stopped trying. I think the team is already done with him IMO they're just waiting for Grier to be ready. BB said as much...

Zappe is 2-0 as a starter with a 100+ QB Rating.

Cleaning up Mac's mess in garbage time with a huge deficit isn't relevant at all.

Players give up at that point, they're just trying to get off the field healthy and get home, they've lost all hope.

 

[sb1]

Zappe is 2-0 as a starter with a 100+ QB Rating.

And he had a meh camp and a terrible preseason and doesn't look like he can handle a BOB offense.
Also in those starts he was good once, meh in the other one. Wouldn't use that as some kind of benchmark...

Cleaning up Mac's mess in garbage time with a huge deficit isn't relevant at all.

It's not as relevant as a start but I think there's some relevance. I would think a guy who deserves another chance would make a case for himself even in garbage time and that hasn't happened.

Players give up at that point, they're just trying to get off the field healthy and get home, they've lost all hope.

Could say the same for the defense...the dogs are called off they just want to finish it up without any more injuries. 39% and 4.4 YPA against a defense who is ready for the game to end isn't great.

 

[mike_usagisan]

The rookie for GB looks like he could do what Ryland is doing and he was picked in the 6th... I keep going back to Janikowski that should be the bar imo for picking a kicker earlier than usual.

Right, I'm not saying we had to. Just explaining Bill's thinking and how it got to be a 4th rounder rather than later.

 

[Wozzy]

And he had a meh camp and a terrible preseason and doesn't look like he can handle a BOB offense.
Also in those starts he was good once, meh in the other one. Wouldn't use that as some kind of benchmark...

He had a meh camp playing in preseason with the dregs of the roster. He didn't turn the ball over in those preseason games, he ran a clean operation. He never played with the starters.

He was great in last year's starts for a rookie starter with a sub-optimal coordinator. His rating and win record reflects that.

It's not as relevant as a start but I think there's some relevance. I would think a guy who deserves another chance would make a case for himself even in garbage time and that hasn't happened.

The last two games were beyond over when Zappe came in and threw a few passes, it's absurd to compare the two.

Last year he practiced as the starter in the week leading up to the game, was part of the game-plan, practiced with the starters, took reps using plays they were going to employ versus the defense they were playing that week. In the last two weeks he took backup reps and was not involved much at all. Apples/oranges.

I'm not saying he'll be amazing, but he can look a lot better than he did in garbage time of a blowout. There's also an element of a reenergized team around him, if his teammates lost faith in Mac... they may rally around the new guy knowing there is at least a chance to win.

 

[sb1]

He had a meh camp playing in preseason with the dregs of the roster. He didn't turn the ball over in those preseason games, he ran a clean operation. He never played with the starters.

He was great in last year's starts for a rookie starter with a sub-optimal coordinator. His rating and win record reflects that.

I don't think he was great against Detroit. Spotted 6 4th down stops from the defense and managed only 1 TD out of that. No reason to think Mac couldn't have done that. We know Brady would have kicked their teeth in.

The last two games were beyond over when Zappe came in and threw a few passes, it's absurd to compare the two.

Then why is he putting up subpar stats against a defense that stopped trying?

Last year he practiced as the starter, was part of the gameplan, practiced with the starters, took reps using plays they were going to employ versus the defense they were playing that week. In the last two weeks he took backup reps and was not involved much at all. Apples/oranges.

If he has trouble with his backup role then why is he on the roster at all?

I'm not saying he'll be amazing, but he can look a lot better than he did in garbage time of a blowout. There's also an element of a reenergized team around him, if his teammates lost faith in Mac they may rally around the new guy knowing there is at least a chance to win.

So give Grier, Cunningham or a vet with some upside a shot. I'm on board with #AnyoneButMac but not Zappe, I don't want to see a guy who is probably not long for this roster and has no future on this team or in the league. It would be pointless. If this is a lost season let's see something that we can take to next season. JMO

 

[Wozzy]

I don't think he was great against Detroit. Spotted 6 4th down stops for the defense and managed only 1 TD out of that. No reason to think Mac couldn't have done that. We know Brady would have kicked their teeth in.

Good god... did you just mention Brady?

Against Detroit the coaches only let him throw twenty times and were handling him with kid gloves, like they should with a rookie making his first start. Oh yeah, and they had the game well in hand winning 29-0. He completed 81% of his passes, his only interception came when a ball hit Agholor in his hands and Nelson handed it directly to a defender, otherwise Zappe had a 100 QB Rating.

Then why is he putting up subpar stats against a defense that stopped trying?

I said the Patriots offense stopped trying.

The opposing defense were trying to pad their sack and interception stats.

If he has trouble with his backup role then why is he on the roster at all?

So give Grier, Cunningham or a vet with some upside a shot. I'm on board with #AnyoneButMac but not Zappe, I don't want to see a guy who is probably not long for this roster and has no future on this team or in the league. It would be pointless. If this is a lost season let's see something that we can take to next season. JMO

Dude... you seem to have comprehension issues. If your team gives up around you, he isn't having trouble with his backup role. His Patriot teammates look up at the scoreboard, see the 40 point deficit with three minutes left and are thinking about what to have for dinner later, not how badly they want to help Zappe score in the final minute.

Have you played organized sports before, have you ever been on the wrong side of a blowout?

Nobody on the losing side is trying at that point, except maybe backups who haven't seen snaps all season. Try really hard to comprehend what I'm saying.

 

[Pats1971]

Only Grier hasn't had an opportunity IMO. Zappe has. It's not like Zappe is making much of a case for himself anyway passing for 39% comp and 4.4 yards per attempt when the other defense has stopped trying. I think the team is already done with him IMO they're just waiting for Grier to be ready. BB said as much...

Being thrown out in a blowout game where nobody cares anymore is not exactly the best way to analyze a QB. Getting reps all week, knowing you are the starter, etc etc.

 

[203Pat]

But yet you say Jonnu Smith is having some success elsewhere. He was here WITH Josh McDaniels, not only Matt Patricia. Yet he goes elsewhere -- to a non-passing offense -- and does well. It's either the system or the QB then. But McDaniels didn't seem to forget how to run an offense overnight, did he?

Anyway, it's pretty clear you can only find a supporting cast in FA. No one is letting go of their #1 receivers anymore. We just have to hope that Cincy is going to let Tee Higgins go, but the way they're going with losing games, it looks like they may actually consider trading him before the deadline.

We can't rely on FA though. It's simply not the way to go any more.

Yes some success. Not $30 million guaranteed success. I don't know what you're even talking about at this point. My point was we used tons of resources for a number one option in the passing game and all those options combined have had their production almost doubled by one single player.

 

[sb1]

Good god... did you just mention Brady.

Yeah because we all know what Brady would have done spotted 6 fourth down stops like Zappe was.

Against Detroit the coaches only let him throw twenty times and were handling him with kid gloves, like they should with a rookie making his first start. Oh yeah, and they had the game well in hand winning 29-0. He completed 81% of his passes, his only interception came when a ball hit Agholor in his hands and Nelson handed it directly to a defender, otherwise Zappe had a 100 QB Rating.

Less than 200 yards passing, 1 TD 1 INT. Meh stats no matter what the context is. Stevenson on the other hand had 25 carries for 161 yards. Over 6 yards per carry. That along with the defense was won the game not a QB throwing for less than 200 yards against a subpar defense.

I said the Patriots offense stopped trying.

The opposing defense were trying to pad their sack and interception stats.

Sorry dude 39% and 4.4 yards per attempt in garbage time is not good and that doesn't project well to a starting role in a game. Imagine if the Cowboys and Saints defenses were still trying and didn't call off the dogs.

Amazes me how many excuses the Zappe fans are making for their guy. I get it, he is more likeable than Mac Jones I think he is too but he has not shown he's a viable starting QB or a QB at all at the NFL level and the fact the team cut him already means they agree with me.

Dude... you seem to have comprehension issues. If your team gives up around you, he isn't having trouble with his backup role. His Patriot teammates look up at the scoreboard, see the 40 point deficit with three minutes left and are thinking about what to have for dinner later, not how badly they want to help Zappe score in the final minute.

And you know this because you've played pro ball? Are on the field with them?

 

[sb1]

Being thrown out in a blowout game where nobody cares anymore is not exactly the best way to analyze a QB. Getting reps all week, knowing you are the starter, etc etc.

If Zappe needs reps with the starters to be good then all the more reason to believe he isn't even a backup QB in the league and doesn't belong on the roster at all. That's literally his role as backup to come in a game and mop up or replace the starter due to injury. He's not going to get reps all week every time.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah because we all know what Brady would have done spotted 6 fourth down stops like Zappe was.

Brady didn't start a single game as a rookie... start there.

Zappe's drives stalled against the Lions predominately because the coaches were handling a rookie QB and wouldn't let him pass. They did the same thing the week before when he was forced into the Green Bay game and starting dealing. Rather than trust him to win the game, they did just enough to not have him lose it.

He's not a rookie anymore. They have no reason to hold him back.

Less than 200 yards passing, 1 TD 1 INT. Meh stats no matter what the context is. Stevenson on the other hand had 25 carries for 161 yards. Over 6 yards per carry. That along with the defense was won the game not a QB throwing for less than 200 yards against a subpar defense.

Sorry dude 39% and 4.4 yards per attempt in garbage time is not good. Imagine if the defense was actually trying and didn't call off the dogs.

Amazes me how many excuses the Zappe fans are making for their guy. I get it, he is more likeable than Mac Jones I think he is too but he has not shown he's a viable starting QB or a QB at all at the NFL level and the fact the team cut him already means they agree with me.

He played the Browns a week later. The Browns played the Tua led Dolphins, the Brady led Bucs, the Herbert led Chargers, the Burrow led Bengals, the Josh Allen led Bills and the Lamar led Ravens last season.

Zappe put up one of the highest point totals and passing yard totals the Cleveland defense allowed last year, better than all these ^ guys... it's all relative.

Just admit you simply don't like Zappe, so your bias and agenda are showing.

And you know this because you've played pro ball? Are on the field with them?

I asked if you played organized sports at any time in your life... I'll take that as a no.

 

[203Pat]

I think he liked Ryland but really didn't like the one after Ryland.

He could have kept Folk, but Folk's range was diminishing and it meant keeping someone else who could do kickoffs.

Folk hit a 53 yarder on Sunday and hasn't missed a kick this year.

 

[sb1]

Brady didn't start a single game as a rookie... start there.

The point was 188 yards passing and 1 TD against a team that was given SIX 4th down stops by the defense is meh. Nothing more, nothing less. Better QB's would have lit them up, worse QBs would have done worse.

He's not a rookie anymore. They have no reason to hold him back.

Great and the result is a crap preseason and he can't complete passes this regular season. Is that really an upgrade over Mac Jones. Yeah I don't think so.

He played the Browns a week later. The Browns played the Tua led Dolphins, the Brady led Bucs, the Herbert led Chargers, the Burrow led Bengals, the Josh Allen led Bills and the Lamar led Ravens last season.

Zappe put up one of the highest point totals and passing yard totals the Cleveland defense allowed last year, better than all these ^ guys... it's all relative.

Yeah LaSt YeAR is all the Zappeites have I guess. That's not a flex. Implying Zappe is better than Herbert, Tua, Allen Burrow and Lamar... now that's funny. I'm more interested in this year and he's been trash and was cut once already and will be again shortly. I have zero interest in seeing him get another chance, been there done that. Let's see if there's a real upgrade to Mac out there for this season cause he ain't one.

Just admit you simply don't like Zappe, so your bias and agenda are showing.

Just amazes me how many excuses his fans make for him when they don't give the same benefit of the doubt to anyone else. When he gets reps with the starters and stinks up the field then lemme guess... he needs a full camp with the starters then he'll be great just watch you'll see! Lolol.

He isn't a good QB at the NFL level and like it was with Stidham I don't see any point to playing a guy who has no future with the team. I don't think he should have been picked in the 4th round in the draft either.

I asked if you played organized sports at any time in your life... I'll take that as a no.

You would be incorrect and comparing lower levels of organized sports to pro sports is apples/oranges. Unless you're on the field with them can't assume that the offense is ready to go home and their mind is off the game. Even if they were I don't think that should stop Zappe from being able to complete a pass against a defense who called off the dogs.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Folk hit a 53 yarder on Sunday and hasn't missed a kick this year.

Maybe he's been eating his Wheaties. It sure seemed like he had problems with the long kicks and kickoffs the last couple of years.

 

[upstater1]

Yes some success. Not $30 million guaranteed success. I don't know what you're even talking about at this point. My point was we used tons of resources for a number one option in the passing game and all those options combined have had their production almost doubled by one single player.

We spent more on Jonnu than we spent on the $30m guaranteed!

We're talking about the fact that when Jonnu got away from Mac they had more success. And don't bring up Patricia. Jonnu was here with McDaniels, a guy who managed to have productive receivers with various QBs, not just Brady.