Mac Not Happy With the Groceries

[Real fan 02]

A single bad pick at QB can make a good head coach look idiotic. I know this i a bad comparison with Payton at Denver, but he was a supposedly good coach now saddled with a sad sack QB (who I would trade for in an instant).

I wrote on Cole Strange in the Kraft-Belichick thread. I didn't like trading for a guard there. In retrospect, I see the people taken around him and before and I think, wow, the 2 guys fans wanted (Lloyd and Elam) are busts. There is only one player in that Strange range that turned into anything. The WRs before Pickens are all doing nothing. So, I get the distaste for drafting an OL (which is strange since we're talking here about revamping the OL). But you have to give me an alternative pick.

Jones, Williams, Dawson etc. are from drafts so long ago that the vast majority of the players in those drafts are out of the league. I dismiss them as the sort of thing that happens when you're picking late (end of 1st round, when you've been spanked by the NFL for deflategate, or else when you've traded away picks for Sanu or Cooks and the like). But I think they are irrelevant to the current team. We have 54 players who joined since 2021.

I acknowledge we have a glaring hole at #1 WR, but short of taking Pickens instead of Thornton, I don't know how they would have accomplished that. The alternative is Flowers over Gonzalez. Before that we took Mac Jones. And even though it's been a disastrous pick, it was the right pick at the time.

Mac is much more capable QB than he's shown. He can't change what he has around him. It unfortunate that it's happening the way it is this season. I truly hope he can be traded to SF or LV even in a reserve role. It just feels the teams quit, players are smart and players talk all thought the league. If BB can send Jimmy G texts thought the season than definitely players are talk about what's going on in their locker rooms. I don't feel like their is any coming back from this. If a miraculous chain of events happens like them winning that could be the only thing to give guys any type of hope. Depleted on defense, inept on offense= losing.

 

[upstater1]

There's a reason Brady went from 25tds in 2019 to 40 in 2020 with Tampa. He didn't get better in a bubble.

Acting like we have just as good of a roster as the 49ers and are just waiting for a Brock Purdy to unlock them is pure delusion

What about Brady in 2018? Good enough to win a Super Bowl.

What people have to come to grips with is that teams cycle talent. You can't stay on top forever. That 2019-2020 transition was so brutal not only because they took the hit on a LOT of dead money, but because the team jettisoned ALL of its Super Bowl players and began again. It's what is known as a rebuild. It's OK, and that's what teams need to do. Gronk, Edelman, etc., were gone.

The only mistake they made in this period was choosing to pay Shaq Mason instead of Thuney. They were better off holding onto Thuney. This was a big personnel mistake.

 

[PATS16N0]

Mac probably is a little better than he’s shown this year, which still isn’t good enough to hang on to him and build around.

 

[RIpats88]

What about Brady in 2018? Good enough to win a Super Bowl.

What people have to come to grips with is that teams cycle talent. You can't stay on top forever. That 2019-2020 transition was so brutal not only because they took the hit on a LOT of dead money, but because the team jettisoned ALL of its Super Bowl players and began again. It's what is known as a rebuild. It's OK, and that's what teams need to do. Gronk, Edelman, etc., were gone.

The only mistake they made in this period was choosing to pay Shaq Mason instead of Thuney. They were better off holding onto Thuney. This was a big personnel mistake.

A rebuild is fine. If you can replace players in the draft. Instead Bill whiffed on every offensive draft pick. It's bills fault in 2019 he replaced Gronk with Ben Watson and whiffed on Harry.

And 4 years into the rebuild have no one on offense you could say you would want on this team in 5 years.

Compare that even with the jets. I can name a few.

 

[upstater1]

Mac is much more capable QB than he's shown. He can't change what he has around him. It unfortunate that it's happening the way it is this season. I truly hope he can be traded to SF or LV even in a reserve role. It just feels the teams quit, players are smart and players talk all thought the league. If BB can send Jimmy G texts thought the season than definitely players are talk about what's going on in their locker rooms. I don't feel like their is any coming back from this. If a miraculous chain of events happens like them winning that could be the only thing to give guys any type of hope. Depleted on defense, inept on offense= losing.

It's obvious we disagree. Your post is why I keep typing that people underrate how bad he is. After the Dolphins game I wrote about what I was seeing in him and why it was going to lead to a dismal season. People still believed he would get there after the Phins game, but I had thrown in the towel.

Prior to this year I was a Mac defender and I was hoping for development. I did not beat up on him last year. But this year, I see a guy who is incapable and has so many problems. People knocked me a lot for my separate thread after the Dolphins game, but it was obvious he was this team's main problem.

 

[1960Pats]

They can give BB his graceful exit anytime both parties want. He can retire or resign as HC of the NEP instead of being publicly fired. I don’t think Bill has any interest in starting over in a rebuild, maybe 10 years ago but not at his age.

Bill would probably have his choice of jobs for himself and his kids if he left. He could probably help a lot of teams that already have decent players. He could bolt to the Bolts or raid the Raiduhs when those HCs are dumped.

 

[Rob0729]

I take that play as maybe a coaching error. We're always protecting the inside in order to route players down the edge so that our QB can step into the pocket.

As a fan, I never would have expected Brown to keep up with a fast edge guy 5 yards downfield. I'm not looking for that from him. I simply expect him to do his job when a QB steps up and the edge rusher has to break inside. That's always to Brown's advantage. Here we have a QB that's way back and the LT is not going to be able to be fast enough to help. Not because the LT doesn't care, but because he doesn't have that ability.

I don't know why Mac is way back there; that's on the coaches and the QB.

I still don't even know if you and I talking about the same play. You keep on talking about Granderson running a stunt, but there was no stunt by Granderson on that play. He lined up on the line and made a straight line run to the QB. He wasn't lining up off the ball. It was a straight line rush. Here I posted some screen shots so you can see.

 

[RIpats88]

So, if we replace Mac Jones with Zappe or some other QB which likely will happen this season.

And we still struggle with the same issues because our roster is poor. Which likely will continue

What will be the next excuse for bill from these posters?

 

[lancerman]

What about Brady in 2018? Good enough to win a Super Bowl.

What people have to come to grips with is that teams cycle talent. You can't stay on top forever. That 2019-2020 transition was so brutal not only because they took the hit on a LOT of dead money, but because the team jettisoned ALL of its Super Bowl players and began again. It's what is known as a rebuild. It's OK, and that's what teams need to do. Gronk, Edelman, etc., were gone.

The only mistake they made in this period was choosing to pay Shaq Mason instead of Thuney. They were better off holding onto Thuney. This was a big personnel mistake.

Did you watch the 2018 team. They looked mediocre until Gronk finally got bank to form and even then the offense was anemic in the Super Bowl. Yeah taking Gronk out of the picture and banging up Edelman effected alot the next year

 

[Real fan 02]

It's obvious we disagree. Your post is why I keep typing that people underrate how bad he is. After the Dolphins game I wrote about what I was seeing in him and why it was going to lead to a dismal season. People still believed he would get there after the Phins game, but I had thrown in the towel.

Prior to this year I was a Mac defender and I was hoping for development. I did not beat up on him last year. But this year, I see a guy who is incapable and has so many problems. People knocked me a lot for my separate thread after the Dolphins game, but it was obvious he was this team's main problem.

Don't get me wrong I'm not defending him but is he this bad? I mean all QBs gave bad games but this is horrible like he's forgetting how to play QB. I think it's mental. Compounded with no higher end talent. He's a big problem Compounded by organizational roster mismanagement

 

[sb1]

Bill would probably have his choice of jobs for himself and his kids if he left. He could probably help a lot of teams that already have decent players. He could bolt to the Bolts or raid the Raiduhs when those HCs are dumped.

I think he would really want to return to his first love the NY Giants most of all if he could and I think the feeling is probably mutual with Mara. Not sure how they feel about Daboll right now or how feasible that move would be.

 

[1960Pats]

A rebuild is fine. If you can replace players in the draft. Instead Bill whiffed on every offensive draft pick. It's bills fault in 2019 he replaced Gronk with Ben Watson and whiffed on Harry.

And 4 years into the rebuild have no one on offense you could say you would want on this team in 5 years.

Compare that even with the jets. I can name a few.

I keep thinking that I want to go back and look closely at the players Bill drafted since 2019 but I'm afraid of what I'll find.

 

[RIpats88]

Did you watch the 2018 team. They looked mediocre until Gronk finally got bank to form and even then the offense was anemic in the Super Bowl. Yeah taking Gronk out of the picture and banging up Edelman effected alot the next year

Imagine if Bill traded Gronk to Detroit in 2018 like he wanted to?

Bye bye Superbowl

 

[upstater1]

A rebuild is fine. If you can replace players in the draft. Instead Bill whiffed on every offensive draft pick.

And 4 years into the rebuild have no one on offense you could say you would want on this team in 5 years.

Compare that even with the jets. I can name a few...

Whiffed on every...

You mean Tyquan. As I said, first 6 WRs taken were busts.

I don't blame him for taking Mac. It was the right pick. He would've been crazy not to take him. But it's a whiff.

Compare to the Jets??????

Did you seriously write that? Sam Darnold. Zack Wilson. Bad drafting, a lot of losses. Yes they have had top picks and the luxury to find top 10 guys in Sauce Gardner and Garrett Wilson. The Patriots haven't picked in the top 10 since forever.

Let's not forget that the last 5 Jets top 15 picks have been Adams #6, Darnold #3, Zach Wilson #2, Q. Williams #3, Gardner #4, Wilson #10, Vera-Tucker, Becton #3.

Look at all those picks. Patriots haven't picked anyone that high in eons. And the only thing the Jets got out of this is Williams, Gardner and Wilson.

Seriously, that's 8 picks, all taken higher than anyone on the Patriots since Mayo, and they only ended up with 3 guys.

The Patriots would've done much much better with these assets

 

[RIpats88]

Don't get me wrong I'm not defending him but is he this bad? I mean all QBs gave bad games but this is horrible like he's forgetting how to play QB. I think it's mental. Compounded with no higher end talent. He's a big problem Compounded by organizational roster mismanagement

This is stuff we used to laugh at the Jets for ruining QBs and "seeing ghosts"

 

[upstater1]

Imagine if Bill traded Gronk to Detroit in 2018 like he wanted to?

Bye bye Superbowl

They held a top 10 offensive team of all-time to 3 points.

 

[Ross12]

I think there is just a serious leadership problem on this roster. Mac is not a leader. These stories to the media are not what you want to see associated with your QB. Pair poor performance with bad leadership and it's a recipe for the disaster we see on the field. And I think there's a lack of leadership on the rest of the roster as well. Judon was one of few and he's out rehabbing now. You have to wonder how the emotional side of things and lack of buy-in affects the output and performance that we see. Making some changes to who starts and who plays key roles, such as the quarterback, may make room for new leaders and thus impact the output and performance in some noticeable way. Or maybe it won't, but it's worth trying.

 

[RIpats88]

Whiffed on every...

You mean Tyquan. As I said, first 6 WRs taken were busts.

I don't blame him for taking Mac. It was the right pick. He would've been crazy not to take him. But it's a whiff.

Compare to the Jets??????

Did you seriously write that? Sam Darnold. Zack Wilson. Bad drafting, a lot of losses. Yes they have had top picks and the luxury to find top 10 guys in Sauce Gardner and Garrett Wilson. The Patriots haven't picked in the top 10 since forever.

Let's not forget that the last 5 Jets top 15 picks have been Adams #6, Darnold #3, Zach Wilson #2, Q. Williams #3, Gardner #4, Wilson #10, Vera-Tucker, Becton #3.

Look at all those picks. Patriots haven't picked anyone that high in eons. And the only thing the Jets got out of this is Williams, Gardner and Wilson.

Seriously, that's 8 picks, all taken higher than anyone on the Patriots since Mayo, and they only ended up with 3 guys.

The Patriots would've done much much better with these assets

You act as if there are no good players after the top 10.

Majority of good players come after those picks. And a lot end up better than top 10 guys.

Kansas City built a great roster drafting while they were making the playoffs with Alex Smith. It's a pure myth that you can't build a great team with lower draft picks.

 

[upstater1]

I still don't even know if you and I talking about the same play. You keep on talking about Granderson running a stunt, but there was no stunt by Granderson on that play. He lined up on the line and made a straight line run to the QB. He wasn't lining up off the ball. It was a straight line rush. Here I posted some screen shots so you can see.

I criticized Brown for missing on the stunt which is the 1st video.

I didn't mention a stunt when discussing the 3rd video which is the play we're focusing on.

 

[RIpats88]

They held a top 10 offensive team of all-time to 3 points.

What's that have to do with trading Gronk away? We don't win that Superbowl or even get there without him against KC and the Rams. Unless you think someone else scores our only TD or has that big 3rd down play in KC

We scored 13 that game. Gronk threatening to retire if Bill traded him with no backup plan brought us another chip