Mac Jones vs. the other rookie QBs

[Pats2000]

Mac has been sheltered, but Brady was on a short leash as well.

There will come a game when the Pats are behind and Mac must throw to win the game. A day when the NE defense is not having a great game. The Pats could run, but time is of the essence. Im waiting to see if Mac can come through.

The Colts could very well be that game.

I think he's shown he can move the chains, what wasn't there was the redzone plays. I think he's much better in the RZ now than he was earlier in the year. If he was more RZ efficient, Tampa probably would have been a win. I think he's close to be able to take over a game.

 

[Pats2000]

Well we can rule out lactose intolerance then.

 

[ivanvamp]

Mac has been sheltered, but Brady was on a short leash as well.

There will come a game when the Pats are behind and Mac must throw to win the game. A day when the NE defense is not having a great game. The Pats could run, but time is of the essence. Im waiting to see if Mac can come through.

The Colts could very well be that game.

They already had this game. Home against Dallas.

Pats were down 17-14, 20-14, and 26-21*. Each time, Mac brought them back to take the lead, including up 29-26 with just over 2 minutes left in the game. The defense allowed 567 total yards, and Mac went 15-21 (71.4%), for 221 yds (10.5 y/a), 2 td, and 1 int.

And they SHOULD have come back and won that game but the defense (and then in OT the defense AND Agholor) let them down.

*Yes, I know that the 26-21 deficit was caused by a Jones pick six off the hands of Bourne, but he promptly came back with a 75-yard strike to Bourne to get the lead right back.

 

[rochrist]

Lawrence drafted by Bill and coached by Josh would be excellent. I never ever believed in Wilson and Trey Lance shouldn’t even be a day 1 pick. Fields I have no idea.

I've been pretty sure since watching him last time that Lawrence doesn't have what it takes to succeed in the league. All the talent in the world, but just too much of an entitled attitude and not enough fire.

 

[Brotherblues]

Well we can rule out lactose intolerance then.

Actually grew up with that. Undiagnosed for a looong time, and with a nanny that believed all ailments were cured with a tall glass of milk. Fun.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Actually grew up with that. Undiagnosed for a looong time, and with a nanny that believed all ailments were cured with a tall glass of milk. Fun.

Jesus. My nephew is LI. Poor bastard craps glass if even looks at cheese.

 

[SouthernPatriot]

With respect you're off on Fields. He's 6'3 225 230. His size and physique are probably the best of the class. He's also arguably the most accurate college passer ever (surprised this escapes so many people). Esp when you consider scheme and system.

No doubt you're a Bama fan. I love it.

I was comparing him to Lawrence that is about 6'5 or 6'6" when I was talking about his size. No doubt he has size, but not like Lawrence. In my humble opinion, being a "running" QB in the NFL that player is going to take a beating and needs to learn to pass first, then run.

I was off on JF and his accuracy, I guess I was remembering when we played him, but I would take Lawrence over Justin any day between those 2, of course I would Mac over those 2 first! One thing that is forgotten when looking at these QBs is that all is not even in college football, there is no parity. Defenses in the SEC are far and above the defenses that Lawrence and Fields faced in the Big 10 and ACC.

The highest ranked team Fields faced in the regular season was Northwestern (10) where he put up 114 yards with 2 INTs.
Clemson didn't play a ranked team during the regular season in which Lawrence played.
The highest ranked team Bama played with Texas A&M (4) and Mac put up 435 yards, 4 TDs and 1 INT

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This is why draft geeks talk about "landing spot" , it matters so much. Obviously for all players but especially for that position. Its something I always believed to an extent but truthfully as the years go on It's become more apparent to me and something you can't ignore.

I've been preaching it since Mac arrived but we're lucky Bill & Josh are here. Half of the coaches on the teams that just drafted these QB's are on the hot seat or getting fired soon. If that doesn't tell you all you need to know nothing will. There can't be plan if you don't have a leader.

I don't want to say Fields would be killing it here but I think he'd be much better. There's a reason Packer fans want Nagy to stay in Chicago. He's absolutely terrible lol. Every minute they spend with him is a failure. Fields is a rookie and has issues but he's hardly the problem there.

 

[Jim Beankie]

They already had this game. Home against Dallas.

Pats were down 17-14, 20-14, and 26-21*. Each time, Mac brought them back to take the lead, including up 29-26 with just over 2 minutes left in the game. The defense allowed 567 total yards, and Mac went 15-21 (71.4%), for 221 yds (10.5 y/a), 2 td, and 1 int.

And they SHOULD have come back and won that game but the defense (and then in OT the defense AND Agholor) let them down.

*Yes, I know that the 26-21 deficit was caused by a Jones pick six off the hands of Bourne, but he promptly came back with a 75-yard strike to Bourne to get the lead right back.

Heck, as most know, the Pats had 8 carries for -1 yds during the Bucs game, and they were close (with Mac at 31/40 for 275 and took the lead twice in the 4th). Just a batted pass on 3rd down to a wide open Jakobi was the difference.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I was comparing him to Lawrence that is about 6'5 or 6'6" when I was talking about his size. No doubt he has size, but not like Lawrence.

Size is probably the most overrated aspect of playing QB. Most good-great QB's are between 6' & 6'3 around 215-230. Most "big" or "bigger" QB's are / have been bad throughout the history in the league.

In my humble opinion, being a "running" QB in the NFL that player is going to take a beating and needs to learn to pass first, then run.

Who's a "running QB"

I was off on JF and his accuracy, I guess I was remembering when we played him, but I would take Lawrence over Justin any day between those 2, of course I would Mac over those 2 first!

I don't why people say this? I'd love to hear some real insight why you think Lawrence is so much better?

One thing that is forgotten when looking at these QBs is that all is not even in college football, there is no parity.

This is correct! Theres 0 parity in college football.

Defenses in the SEC are far and above the defenses that Lawrence and Fields faced in the Big 10 and ACC.
The highest ranked team Fields faced in the regular season was Northwestern (10) where he put up 114 yards with 2 INTs.
Clemson didn't play a ranked team during the regular season in which Lawrence played.
The highest ranked team Bama played with Texas A&M (4) and Mac put up 435 yards, 4 TDs and 1 INT

With respect your bias is showing and you're off here. Especially if we're talking Covid year. SEC is king but we're talking feet not miles in terms of a gap. Fields played 10 ranked opponents and was 8-2.

Also ...

 

[SouthernPatriot]

Size is probably the most overrated aspect of playing QB. Most good-great QB's are between 6' & 6'3 around 215-230. Most "big" or "bigger" QB's are / have been bad throughout the history in the league.

Who's a "running QB"

I don't why people say this? I'd love to hear some real insight why you think Lawrence is so much better?

This is correct! Theres 0 parity in college football.

With respect your bias is showing and you're off here. Especially if we're talking Covid year. SEC is king but we're talking feet not miles in terms of a gap. Fields played 10 ranked opponents and was 8-2.

Also ...
View attachment 38817

Please enlighten me, what were the 10 ranked teams that Justin played in 2020? What are the 10 ranked teams Justin played in 2019 and 2020 in the regular season? I only include regular season because every everyone plays ranked teams in the playoffs.

And when was that pic you posted shown on the NFL Network? Need a little reference here, was it after 1 weekend?

 

[203Pat]

I checked the Jets boards yesterday to get a temperature check on Wilson. They think he's a bust and they're upset that he is easily the worst of the bunch (that play so Lance excluded). Warmed my heart to see them all miserable.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Please enlighten me, what were the 10 ranked teams that Justin played in 2020? What are the 10 ranked teams Justin played in 2019 and 2020 in the regular season? I only include regular season because every everyone plays ranked teams in the playoffs.

And when was that pic you posted shown on the NFL Network? Need a little reference here, was it after 1 weekend?

With respect you got caught up in the narrative cycle. It happens.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

I checked the Jets boards yesterday to get a temperature check on Wilson. They think he's a bust and they're upset that he is easily the worst of the bunch (that play so Lance excluded). Warmed my heart to see them all miserable.

Maybe, just maybe, the problem is not who they drafted, but their incompetent organization who cannot develop properly. It is going to be their 4th wasted high pick on a QB (Sanchez, Smith, Darnold and now Wilson).

During that time, BB developed Jimmy G, Brissett and Mac who all are starters who have been starters.

 

[RIpats88]

They already had this game. Home against Dallas.

Pats were down 17-14, 20-14, and 26-21*. Each time, Mac brought them back to take the lead, including up 29-26 with just over 2 minutes left in the game. The defense allowed 567 total yards, and Mac went 15-21 (71.4%), for 221 yds (10.5 y/a), 2 td, and 1 int.

And they SHOULD have come back and won that game but the defense (and then in OT the defense AND Agholor) let them down.

*Yes, I know that the 26-21 deficit was caused by a Jones pick six off the hands of Bourne, but he promptly came back with a 75-yard strike to Bourne to get the lead right back.

He also passed for 300 yards against a good Titans defense who was keying in on the run.

I think as the season has gone along they have taken the reigns off him somewhat.

 

[stinkypete]

Nobody else would lead this team to such success.

Wilson was destined to be an Akili Smith level bust from day one, the kind of guy who shoots up the draft board because of some imagined "wow factor" nonsense but doesn't have the production or football smarts to justify his standing. His sole purpose in the world is to make Sam Darnold look good by comparison.

Lawrence may become good, or he may not. I see no reason to believe he is a turd, but he has been shockingly unproductive given talent around him that is, at least on paper, serviceable. He has no excuse to be producing at Cam Newton 2020 levels even in the face of Jacksonville's systemic dysfunction. A great QB will elevate his team to better than 2 wins. Maybe his raw talents blossom in another system and he has a Steve Young type career arc, but at this point David Carr looks the more appropriate comparison, a guy with all the tools but lacks the ability to win and is destroyed by bad organizations.

I have no idea about Lance. Shanahan is smart to sit him, and there is no shame in not being able to beat out Jimmy G yet. San Francisco has built a unique offense around him, good enough for him to have a big year or two before teams figure out he's a 50% passer. Kaepernick 2.0 is the ceiling.

I liked Fields ahead of the draft, but Chicago is going to ruin that poor SOB. He'll be Carolina's next $20 million salvage project.

At this point, I think the 2021 draft class is going to be remembered as a historic bust, except for one player, in hindsight the most obvious candidate for stardom, who nobody believed in at the time because people are stupid and buy into this "athleticism" groupthink.

 

[SouthernPatriot]

With respect you got caught up in the narrative cycle. It happens.

With respect, you don't have facts to answer my question. It happens.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

With respect, you don't have facts to answer my question. It happens.

Don't be mad bc you were wrong, it happens. It's not a big deal but it helps to know what you're talking about. Fields played 8-10 ranked opponents during his time at OSU and played tougher defenses than the rest of the QB's in the class. That's not my opinion, it's facts.

Doesn't seem like you have a handle on this topic after talking about Fields size (even if you were comparing to Lawrence his "size" is fine. How many great 6'6 QB's have ever made it through the league?) and accuracy. Pretty well known to people who watch college ball that's he's played more than enough tough defenses and one of the more accurate QB's to ever play in college. And if you actually watched him in those 8-10 games he played ranked opponents he was very good. So bringing up "facts" is kind of weak when this is well known.

The Draft Network's Benjamin Solak noted that “Fields faced the toughest schedule of all CFB defenses by SP+’s metrics, including his four final games (Indiana, Northwestern, Clemson, Alabama) against top-15 defenses. No FBS quarterback drafted in the last 10 years has had a more difficult defensive schedule than Fields.”


"Fields was by far the most accurate quarterback of the five first-round signal-callers. (Note that this doesn’t mean Trevor Lawrence isn’t good just because his CPOE isn’t high. There are many other factors that make a good NFL quarterback, and CPOE is just one of them). In fact, Fields was the only quarterback to have a plus-10.0% or greater CPOE season in both 2019 and 2020 (minimum of 200 passes in both seasons)"

 

[Triumph]

They already had this game. Home against Dallas.

Pats were down 17-14, 20-14, and 26-21*. Each time, Mac brought them back to take the lead, including up 29-26 with just over 2 minutes left in the game. The defense allowed 567 total yards, and Mac went 15-21 (71.4%), for 221 yds (10.5 y/a), 2 td, and 1 int.

And they SHOULD have come back and won that game but the defense (and then in OT the defense AND Agholor) let them down.

*Yes, I know that the 26-21 deficit was caused by a Jones pick six off the hands of Bourne, but he promptly came back with a 75-yard strike to Bourne to get the lead right back.

I should have written down by a couple of scores.

 

[Weishuhn]

I never pay attention to college football analytics, as they are inherently flawed. Because certain programs (Notre Dame for example) and conferences (Big10) have been overrated for decades because of history and nostalgia, comparing performances in different conferences cannot be boiled down to analytics only. Most will agree that the SEC is on a different level conference-wise. I also feel like the SEC West is a different level than the SEC East. SEC West had every one of its teams except LSU ranked at some point in this season. The Alabama 2020 schedule was historically difficult. All SEC games in the SEC West, and faced the best the East had to offer as well. Comparing 11-0 in the SEC last year to 6-0 in the Big10 for Fields is the definition of apples and oranges.