Patriots Player Departure Mac Jones traded to Jags for a 6th

[Rob0729]

@Wozzy

 

[sb1]

Brady won one with Arians and leftwhich.

He didn't need Bill the way Bill needed him.

I think that's objectively fact. You know. Cause that's how the facts presented them self when both had a chance to shine without the other.

I like how you put it. You can’t tell the story of Bill’s HOF career and exclude Brady. But there is a chapter of the story of Brady’s HOF career that can be told without Bill.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I think they’re going to finalize a deal for a veteran in the next day or so in order to be able to attract free agents. Draft is too questionable right now to make assumptions and sell guys based on hypotheticals.

I agree. I’d like to see Tannehill for 2 years, but Brissett is more likely.

 

[festy1986]

He negotiated for it because his wife was harassing him to either retire or move them to Miami.

He negotiated for it because the Pat’s were nearly broke and at the end of their rope in terms of cap flexibility, roster age and resources.

Roster building isn’t predicated on feelings, Tom on a bad roster is still a bad team. Both sides were correct to move on when they did, it was the right thing for both team and player.

BB didn’t fire Brady like you said, otherwise I wouldn’t have responded at all.

To not accept that Brady left because he had to keep going back to Bill for his 2 years is not accept reality.

If Bill gave him the two year contract he wasn't going anywhere. Everyone knows this.

Instead he wanted to make him play it year by year and that was unacceptable for someone who hadn't even shown an inch of decline.

He was fired.

 

[Rob0729]

Robert Kraft: 'I don't feel like we've done the greatest job the last few years' in the draft

Thank you for proving you have no proof. Nowhere did Kraft say he was taking final say on draft picks from Belichick. Not once. You are taking your interpretation of facts and making them facts.

 

[festy1986]

Again, it's true of any head coach, they all can't win without a good quarterback. I'm not downplaying Brady's importance at all, but I'm also not discounting the impact a head coach has - especially one like Belichick - has either. A head coach can cost you games in spite of your players, which becomes evident every postseason.

Aside from the Malcolm Butler Super Bowl, that fortunately didn't happen with Bill (albeit - I'll forever be angry over that one.) But Bill played a role in flipping a lot of games where Brady helped seal the deal. Without Brady, they don't close out some of those games. But with another coach - given how close many of them were - things also could absolutely have been different. Put the two together, and you go on an unprecedented run.

As I said, it's easy to oversimplify it, but it is what it is. We were fortunate to get both of those guys together at the same time, and unfortunately, we'll certainly never see or experience anything like it again.

You saw what Bill was without Brady only you can decide if that was acceptable but for me I think it's pretty clear that his non Brady years (2000,08,20,21,22 and 23) were a disaster for the most part.

 

[stcjones]

Bill had final say. There may have been others pushing for him, but if Bill didn’t want him he wouldn’t have been drafted.

Yep….also BB pulled the override on the scouts with the pick of Nkeal Harry. None of the scouts wanted Harry there ….im sure Krafty didn’t either after conferring with them…..BB had final say on much of the personnel decisions…..Kraft apparently did force BB hand on Garrapolo

 

[sb1]

To not accept that Brady left because he had to keep going back to Bill for his 2 years is not accept reality.

If Bill gave him the two year contract he wasn't going anywhere. Everyone knows this.

Instead he wanted to make him play it year by year and that was unacceptable for someone who hadn't even shown an inch of decline.

He was fired.

If what I read about episodes 9 and 10 are true that tells me Brady left because he had enough of Bill being an *******. He actually stopped talking to Brady just like he did with Mac Jones. Why should the GOAt put up with that crap. At the time I didn’t like Tom saying football was fun again away from New England…but now I understand.

No wonder no team wants him as coach. Bill is who he is and hasn’t changed with the times and never will.

 

[Ian]

You saw what Bill was without Brady only you can decide if that was acceptable but for me I think it's pretty clear that his non Brady years (2000,08,20,21,22 and 23) were a disaster for the most part.

I don't really understand what we're debating. Brady doesn't win six titles without Belichick just like Belichick can't win Super Bowls without a Super Bowl capable quarterback. The two go hand in hand. Players win the games, coaches can lose them - regardless of how talented their guy is. Again, we're fortunate to have had both at the same time. 20,21,22, and 23 were a disaster because they had the wrong guy(s). Having the wrong QB will get any coach fired - obviously even Belichick - in this day and age. Albeit, the overall roster was also terrible, and that was on Bill. He struck out on Newton, and Jones flamed out, among other issues. So he was done.

I mean, if they drafted Lamar Jackson and they were winning but kept getting bounced in the postseason (like Harbaugh), he'd probably still be here. It is what it is. If you don't have a QB, and the one(s) you have keep throwing interceptions, you're done.

 

[festy1986]

If what I read about episodes 9 and 10 are true that tells me Brady left because he had enough of Bill being an *******. It looked to me like he stopped talking to Brady just like he did with Mac Jones.

No wonder no team wants him as coach. Bill is who he is and hasn’t changed with the times.

The show has made it clear that Brady was a abusive rag doll who just ate bills **** over and over and over again.

At some point is obnoxious the way Bill was treating Brady.

 

[Wozzy]

@Wozzy

I didn’t cite that tweet.

 

[signbabybrady]

How convenient. Why did his contract run out? Was it cause he refused to give him a 2 year contract?

Brady didn't decide to leave. He left when his boss made it clear to him it was time to move on.

Bill couldn't or wouldn't get the deal done early Bill definitely screwed that up. I think of it like he was calling Brady's bluff that he would leave and Brady demanded the no franchise tag clause before the lame duck season signifying he was already leaving because Bill never gave him the contract to age 45 that he had earned.

Bill didn't know it at the time but the only way he was going to be able to keep Brady was if he had locked him up after '16 or '17 maybe even early enough in the off-season after '18 but negotiations never worked and Brady instead took the no franchise tag and played out his last year. I don't think that's how Bill thought it would go and I think he thought he had the leverage because of age and the likelihood of a 42 year old picking up and starting over somewhere new. Grossly miscalculated that and that Brady would indeed make it until 45.

It's really simple he had him under contract until age 42 he thought that was enough. And figured he could offer anything at that point and he'd just cave like he always did. Bill was wrong.

 

[festy1986]

I don't really understand what we're debating. Brady doesn't win six titles without Belichick just like Belichick can't win Super Bowls without a Super Bowl capable quarterback. The two go hand in hand. Players win the games, coaches can lose them - regardless of how talented their guy is. Again, we're fortunate to have had both at the same time. 20,21,22, and 23 were a disaster because they had the wrong guy(s). Having the wrong QB will get any coach fired - obviously even Belichick - in this day and age. Albeit, the overall roster was also terrible, and that was on Bill. He struck out on Newton, and Jones flamed out, among other issues. So he was done.

I mean, if they drafted Lamar Jackson and they were winning but kept getting bounced in the postseason (like Harbaugh), he'd probably still be here. It is what it is. If you don't have a QB, and the one(s) you have keep throwing interceptions, you're done.

We're debating wether Brady wins 6 Superbowls without Bill and I think the evidence is strong that he could.

He won a Superbowl in 33% of the time he played with a coach other than Bill.

The idea that Bill could win with Jackson is a subjective take and I think a strong case can be made that he couldn't.

He's hardly won with anyone. Ever. Unless it was Brady.

 

[Wozzy]

To not accept that Brady left because he had to keep going back to Bill for his 2 years is not accept reality.

If Bill gave him the two year contract he wasn't going anywhere. Everyone knows this.

Instead he wanted to make him play it year by year and that was unacceptable for someone who hadn't even shown an inch of decline.

He was fired.

Contracts are a two way street. Tom had to sign those series of one year extensions, he wasn’t forced at the end of a gun, these guys aren’t slaves. At any point Tom could refused to take less, he chose to take less. Dont be obtuse.

 

[festy1986]

Bill couldn't or wouldn't get the deal done early Bill definitely screwed that up. I think of it like he was calling Brady's bluff that he would leave and Brady demanded the no franchise tag clause before the lame duck season signifying he was already leaving because Bill never gave him the contract to age 45 that he had earned.

Bill didn't know it at the time but the only way he was going to be able to keep Brady was if he had locked him up after '16 or '17 maybe even early enough in the off-season after '18 but negotiations never worked and Brady instead took the no franchise tag and played out his last year. I don't think that's how Bill thought it would go and I think he thought he had the leverage because of age and the likelihood of a 42 year old picking up and starting over somewhere new. Grossly miscalculated that and that Brady would indeed make it until 45.

It's really simple he had him under contract until age 42 he thought that was enough. And figured he could offer anything at that point and he'd just cave like he always did. Bill was wrong.

If Bill gave Brady the contract the year before like he should have, Brady wouldn't of left camp the following year with his lame duck contract.

Bill made that decision for Brady.

To not hold Bill accountable for losing a Superbowl winning quarterback who would go on to still win Superbowl games is ridiculous.

I wholeheartedly disagree that this was Brady's decision and Bill had nothing to do with it.

 

[festy1986]

Contracts are a two way street. Tom had to sign those series of one year extensions, he wasn’t forced at the end of a gun, these guys aren’t slaves. At any point Tom could refused to take less, he chose to take less. Dont be obtuse.

Sure.

Why was Brady in the last year of his contract?

Was it cause the year before Bill refused to give him 2 year?

That's on Bill. He was fired.

 

[Wozzy]

Thank you for proving you have no proof. Nowhere did Kraft say he was taking final say on draft picks from Belichick. Not once. You are taking your interpretation of facts and making them facts.

I didn’t say he had, multiple reports said it was so.

Mike Lombardi also said post draft 2021 BB loved Davis Mills. It’s also not coincidence Caesario left New England and drafted a QB the Pat’s scouted and liked the year prior.

You’re the only one providing a declarative statement; BB chose Mac… you don’t know how it all ended. You’re just a BB hater and want to lay it all at his feet.

I read your BS and know enough to consider the source.

 

[Ian]

We're debating wether Brady wins 6 Superbowls without Bill and I think the evidence is strong that he could.

He won a Superbowl in 33% of the time he played with a coach other than Bill.

The idea that Bill could win with Jackson is a subjective take and I think a strong case can be made that he couldn't.

He's hardly won with anyone. Ever. Unless it was Brady.

It went beyond Brady, especially in the beginning. Bruschi even said during his own retirement that "Bill taught me how to be a champion."

You're penalizing a guy for sending someone (**** Rehbein) to find a quarterback despite the fact they already had three on the roster, and then not only taking a chance on him, but having the stones to stand by the decision to believe in him and keep him in there despite the unbelievable pressure there was on him to the contrary.

I get he moved on from him three years too soon, but you can't penalize the guy for making the right call and then getting the most out of him. And Brady flipped the Buccaneers thanks to his resume, the guys immediately bought in because the guy had six championships. Yes, I highly doubt Brady wins six Super Bowls elsewhere because another coach likely would have made the wrong call down the stretch and hosed him out of a couple of opportunities. And that's provided they wouldn't have messed things up in the Divisional Round or AFC Championship.

Brady got bounced from two opportunities in his final two postseasons and should have gone farther than he did. Those were two good examples of how much coaching - and the guys around you - matter. Not even the GOAT can overcome bad coaching. And bad coaching decisions are what obviously potentially cost him another ring here against Philadelphia.

 

[signbabybrady]

If Bill gave Brady the contract the year before like he should have, Brady wouldn't of left camp the following year with his lame duck contract.

Bill made that decision for Brady.

To not hold Bill accountable for losing a Superbowl winning quarterback who would go on to still win Superbowl games is ridiculous.

I wholeheartedly disagree that this was Brady's decision and Bill had nothing to do with it.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I am giving Bill his blame here just making sure the timeline of events is accurate. It was Bills fault but it was done over the course of several years he didn't just walk in one day and say you're fired like you made it out to be. He just never thought he'd leave so he never felt the need to give him a deal too early because of ageism to give it a quick term.

 

[signbabybrady]

We're debating wether Brady wins 6 Superbowls without Bill and I think the evidence is strong that he could.

He won a Superbowl in 33% of the time he played with a coach other than Bill.

The idea that Bill could win with Jackson is a subjective take and I think a strong case can be made that he couldn't.

He's hardly won with anyone. Ever. Unless it was Brady.

By that logic he had a losing season %33 of the time without Bill too.