Mac Jones is the Starter [Update - Mac is starting vs the Jete, says BB]

[Steve102]

Behind a lot of this are spiteful Tom Brady fans who don't want to see BB have success with another quarterback.

You're not wrong. You'd think they'd be grateful that it happened, and it as as long as it did. Two alpha males who managed to not tell each other F.O. for 20 years is pretty amazing, if you really think about it. Just shows me they aren't true Pats fans.

 

[Sicilian]

I think it's pretty obvious that they're running different plays with Zappe than they are with Mac. Of course, that doesn't absolve Mac of blame, because we really don't know how well he's running the concepts he's being given (that I assume he's had some input in creating). I'm sure they're not just winging it. They have a plan for what they want Mac to do, and what they think he can exploit. The question that they need to figure out pretty quickly now is: Are the concepts sound, but Mac just isn't seeing things/executing properly, or do the concepts need to be scrapped?

 

[Rob0729]

Behind a lot of this are spiteful Tom Brady fans who don't want to see BB have success with another quarterback.

It does seem that most of the pro-Brady/ anti-Belichick crowd are now pro-Zappe/anti-Mac.

 

[jdlboot14]

Guys it's real simple. Against the useless Lions and Browns, the Pats were running all over the D.
This is only a 100-year old concept - If you can establish the run and keep producing on the ground, you will be successful in the pass game.
The Pats couldn't run it at all vs. MIA or CHI, both Mac losses. They ran pretty well vs. BAL, but that's where Mac was truly forcing some bad passes and trying to kick the (doomed) pass scheme into place.
Fact is - Matty P called new/different plays the moment Zappe entered the game vs. Bears. Don't know why.
Maybe he does have a grudge, and a favorite. But, BB better crack that down asap, or threaten Matt's job if he's going rogue for his own mind games. It's time to put everything in for Mac's program, and see if he can handle it and win.

 

[Rob0729]

I think it's pretty obvious that they're running different plays with Zappe than they are with Mac. Of course, that doesn't absolve Mac of blame, because we really don't know how well he's running the concepts he's being given (that I assume he's had some input in creating). I'm sure they're not just winging it. They have a plan for what they want Mac to do, and what they think he can exploit. The question that they need to figure out pretty quickly now is: Are the concepts sound, but Mac just isn't seeing things/executing properly, or do the concepts need to be scrapped?

I still think they call plays with Zappe to be in the best position for success while call plays for Jones for the offense they want to run unregards to whether it puts Jones in the best position to succeed.

There is a real belief by the Patriots coaching that the offense needs to be more vertical to be successful in todays NFL and that is how they run it with Jones under center. I am not sure the Pats have the personnel to run that type of offense. At least not yet.

I don't think they are out to get Jones. But I think there may be an arrogance there with Patricia where he probably thinks that Jones is no longer a rookie and Jones should be able to run the offense the way he wants to call it. And he isn't willing to revise his offense for Jones to accommodate him because of it. This is counter how McDaniels ran the offense who would adjust the offense in whatever way possible to accommodate the personnel he has.

 

[PWRxWLF]

We're in 2022 if you haven't noticed.

The point being, is that you genuinely think that the whole nfl world just realized THIS offseason that Macs arm is crap and now THIS season he’s gotten too scared to try and fit one in there….like he did this past Monday? That’s absurd.

 

[PatsFan2]

The point being, is that you genuinely think that the whole nfl world just realized THIS offseason that Macs arm is crap and now THIS season he’s gotten too scared to try and fit one in there….like he did this past Monday? That’s absurd.

Hope he doesn't crap the bed for your sakes on Sunday afternoon. I am sure you all are running out of excuses for him. How he ended last year was pretty telling to me Mac is nothing special.

 

[PWRxWLF]

Hope he doesn't crap the bed for your sakes on Sunday afternoon. I am sure you all are running out of excuses for him. How he ended last year was pretty telling to me Mac is nothing special.

Idgaf who the QB is. I just want to watch them win. Which I would assume is what you want as well. So, for your sake, let’s hope he doesn’t crap the bed, shall we? Look, there’s a difference between hot takes and genuine analysis. Mac not hitting the TE’s this year has nothing to do with the reason you stated. That’s all. Don’t get too upset over it.

 

[Triumph]

I think it's pretty obvious that they're running different plays with Zappe than they are with Mac. Of course, that doesn't absolve Mac of blame, because we really don't know how well he's running the concepts he's being given (that I assume he's had some input in creating). I'm sure they're not just winging it. They have a plan for what they want Mac to do, and what they think he can exploit. The question that they need to figure out pretty quickly now is: Are the concepts sound, but Mac just isn't seeing things/executing properly, or do the concepts need to be scrapped?

Mac is the Fredo Corleone of the NFL. He is smaht and can handled things, but should not be in charge of a Family.

The Pats are letting Mac throw downfield and have more freedom like all of the best NFL QBs. The true NFL Elite QBs do not need to be coddled and protected from making mistakes. The experiment is a total failure. Mac Jones does not have an NFL arm. His long passes are high arching rainbows that seem to float back to the ground like a Walmart bag. When Jones feels pressure he is rattled. He is slow to react to open receivers.

Whoever is responsible for drafting Mac Jones in the 1st round should be fired. But, my fear it was Belichick.

Zappe is not going away and will be back. 4 games is not enough data to give up on him. How Zappe reacts after the Bears game will determine his NFL fate.

 

[PatsFan2]

Mac is the Fredo Corleone of the NFL. He is smaht and can handled things, but should not be in charge of a Family.

The Pats are letting Mac throw downfield and have more freedom like all of the best NFL QBs. The true NFL Elite QBs do not need to be coddled and protected from making mistakes. The experiment is a total failure. Mac Jones does not have an NFL arm. His long passes are high arching rainbows that seem to float back to the ground like a Walmart bag. When Jones feels pressure he is rattled. He is slow to react to open receivers.

Whoever is responsible for drafting Mac Jones in the 1st round should be fired. But, my fear it was Belichick.

Zappe is not going away and will be back. 4 games is not enough data to give up on him. How Zappe reacts after the Bears game will determine his NFL fate.

Voice of reason.

 

[crawhammer]

Just ignore the trolls that constantly want Mac to fail. I don't understand it. I like zappe and hope either QB can be successful as a "Patriots fan" I don't know what any of these guys will become. The amount people have circled the wagons over a rookie who played good in 2 games against poor defenses is just bizarre. And the amount of hate and fans hoping Mac will fail. You should just hope either of these guys shows us something.

Could it just be the fans want their team to win? Mac's not winning games... 2-7 in his last 9 starts with 13 INTs in those games, so he's significantly contributing to the losing efforts. Now he's coming off an injury that likely will have him less than 100% physically for the remainder of the season. And mentally he doesn't seem to be in a good place either (in part due to the quick hook on Monday). Specific to his issues this season, I'm putting some of it on the changes made with the offense and the new coaches. It was fairly predictable that Patricia and Judge were not ideal choices to work with a young developing franchise quarterback. And it's apparent the collaboration of Patricia, Judge and Mac hasn't worked to this point. This goes back to Belichick and his inclination to surround himself with guys that he has a personal affinity for, regardless of qualifications or actual fit with the players.

Zappe on the other hand is 2-0 as the starter and he also played well in relief of Hoyer at Lambeau and he did provide the team an initial spark in relief of Mac vs Chicago. Granted his two wins came vs bad teams, with bad defenses, but he was playing mostly mistake free football (in contrast to Mac) until the second half of the Chicago game. He stunk in that second half but the entire team fell apart... offense, defense and special teams, so it's not like he specifically blew it.

There's also this theory floating around that Patricia and/or Judge have a preference for Zappe. Now I think they're clowns but Belichick handpicked these two to ru(i)n his offense so if he's truly committed to that then he should just give them what they want.

I would go with Zappe for my own reasons... primarily being the offense has looked better with Zappe and he's won both of his starts. That said, the reporting is Mac will start against the Jets and have a longer leash. It's a must win game, and I like the Patriots in this one with Zappe or Mac, but if they lose with Mac (and he's still throwing picks) then this mostly self-imposed quarterback controversy will not be going away.

 

[PatsFan2]

Idgaf who the QB is. I just want to watch them win. Which I would assume is what you want as well. So, for your sake, let’s hope he doesn’t crap the bed, shall we? Look, there’s a difference between hot takes and genuine analysis. Mac not hitting the TE’s this year has nothing to do with the reason you stated. That’s all. Don’t get too upset over it.

What BB did to Mac Monday night was not fear to him...what I would like to know is Mac on a leash how long or how short? That said the Offense does move better with Zappe and he spreads the football around better than Mac.

 

[Salsalife]

For a pocket passer, it is very difficult to fix the height issue.

For Russell Wilson, they had designed roll outs with the o-line trying to push the defenders in the opposite direction. But you cannot do that with Zappe all that much because he doesn't have Wilson's athleticism. Same with Kyler Murray to lesser success. But both guys struggle more when they are passing from the pocket.

The Saints usually invested in the line to have the o-line try to open up bigger passing lanes for Brees. O-line was always a priority for them. Obviously, nothing can be done this season for the Patriots. But then again, Brees is one of the best QBs in league history. Zappe is extremely unlikely to be remotely as good as Brees.

The Dolphins had to invest a lot in the o-line for Tua this year. But again, he is more mobile than Zappe and can get out of the pocket to avoid batted balls at the line.

It is very difficult being a short QB and a more pure pocket passer in today's NFL. Teams can do what the Bears did on Monday night and just hold their position clog up the passing lanes. That is why most of the successful shorter QBs today are far more mobile and don't have to stay in the pocket to throw the ball and defensive lines cannot just hold their positions in fear of the QB taking off and making a huge play either running the ball or scrambling outside and extending the play.

Thx. The O-line needs to provide passing lanes. I would think watching the Browns game just drop back into a 10 step drop as aposed to a 5 step. Brady had some balls batted down then he learn a different throwing release point.

 

[jdlboot14]

I also can't understand how people totally forget the BAL game. Mac was slinging it, and making some excellent seam, sideline and deeper throws. Even team writers noted some of his best looking passes. Sure, it came with some bad breaks and 3 Picks - no excuses there. But, we can't say the offense wasn't moving the ball in the passing game. We have to give him a few games to break through this wall.
Now, if Matty P is literally throwing him under the bus with his play calling because Mac hurt his feelings, then that's a season-killer anyway.
Because the proof on the field so far is that the play calling has been pretty good during the Lions & Browns game. (or was it that those D's sucked and it was a facade?)

 

[PWRxWLF]

What BB did to Mac Monday night was not fear to him...what I would like to know is Mac on a leash how long or how short? That said the Offense does move better with Zappe and he spreads the football around better than Mac.

Are you high? ****, am I high? Idk what we’re even talking about at this point. The offense has definitely moved better with Zappe. He seems to be finding the open receivers quicker (or at all) but that second half of football Monday night was so bad, I now question if he has what it takes to overcome the height issue. Then again, Brady had some games where the ball got batted down quite a few times. What really bothers me is on those bay downs, I didn’t see one OL knocking someone on their ass and making them pay for it.

 

[PWRxWLF]

I also can't understand how people totally forget the BAL game. Mac was slinging it, and making some excellent seam, sideline and deeper throws. Even team writers noted some of his best looking passes. Sure, it came with some bad breaks and 3 Picks - no excuses there. But, we can't say the offense wasn't moving the ball in the passing game. We have to give him a few games to break through this wall.
Now, if Matty P is literally throwing him under the bus with his play calling because Mac hurt his feelings, then that's a season-killer anyway.
Because the proof on the field so far is that the play calling has been pretty good during the Lions & Browns game. (or was it that those D's sucked and it was a facade?)

The changing in staff and offense has messed him up bad. Not throwing it 100% on the coaches, but it is what it is. It’s unfortunate. He showed quite a bit of promise.

 

[Rob0729]

From Evan Lazar (And yes, I know the info is from PFF, but it is not actual analysis that is subjective).

According to Pro Football Focus, Jones leads all quarterbacks in the percentage of throws over 20 air yards (20.4) and is second in average target depth (10.4). For comparison, those rates were 11.3% (20-plus yards throws) and 8.3 yards (average target depth) in his rookie season.

Mac Jones isn't Brady. Why would he lead the league in down the field target percentage?

Report: Patriots QB Mac Jones Expected to Start vs. Jets on Sunday

He doesn't list Zappe's down the field percentages, but they are most likely far lower.

 

[BB8XSBW]

 

[crawhammer]

According to Pro Football Focus, Jones leads all quarterbacks in the percentage of throws over 20 air yards (20.4) and is second in average target depth (10.4). For comparison, those rates were 11.3% (20-plus yards throws) and 8.3 yards (average target depth) in his rookie season.

He has 6 INTs on those downfield throws, which kind of takes the air out of those percentages. Mac has the highest INT% in the NFL this season at 5.8%, which is a really bad number. Worse than Pickett, Fields, Winston, and Stafford who's having a nightmarish season.

 

[Rob0729]

He has 6 INTs on those downfield throws, which kind of takes the air out of those percentages. Mac has the highest INT% in the NFL this season at 5.8%, which is a really bad number. Worse than Pickett, Fields, Winston, and Stafford who's having a nightmarish season.

How does it take the air out of these percentages? Perry is making the point that the more vertical offense is a big part of the reason for Jones' struggles. The six INTs supports that argument.