Looks like Belichick Isn't Going to Go "All In"

[Thelonious]

Thanks for the formal education, but I was being facetious. We have to go through the "all in" conversation or the "Brady doesn't have enough weapons" talk every off season. Cooks and Allen spared is the latter this off season.

I know: I was using you as a set up man rather than as the dominant closer you obviously are. After 30 years of teaching English, I just can't pass on any opportunity, however shamelessly contrived, to relive my glory days pontificating about words before a captive audience.

 

[Rob0729]

Until Cleveland uses both their first round picks, don't assume that any trade for Garoppolo is dead. I never thought Garoppolo would be traded until just before the draft because there is no upside to do so. The closer we get to the draft, the more desperate Cleveland (or possibly another team) will get to get him and give up the most value. Trading him in February or March would have put the Pats in a weaker bargaining position.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I know: I was using you as a set up man rather than as the dominant closer you obviously are. After 30 years of teaching English, I just can't pass on any opportunity, however shamelessly contrived, to relive my glory days pontificating about words before a captive audience.

Glad I could help in this endeavor. Lol

 

[patfanken]

I find it interesting that when the season ended EVERYONE felt that JG was gone in some trade package. The feeling was very strong among the fan base mostly because given Brady's high expectation of success for the next 2-3 years (at least), it just made common sense to take the best advantage of an asset like Jimmy for the benefit of the team.

Then that opinion literally turned on a dime. Not because of anything BB or the Patritots announced, but rather something Adam Schefter told us. And as if in lockstep, the mediots (and most fans) have marched to that beat so completely it is rare to even hear JG mentioned as a possible trade topic. NFL Network did a story on 5 possible draft day trades, and JG wasn't one of them.

I find it absurd that every day there are 4 QB's who will have no business getting on the field next season, yet who are supposedly just FLYING up draft boards deep into the first round. It's almost as insane as John Fox betting his career on Mike Glennon.

On my end, I still hope sanity prevails and JG gets to play football next season for the Browns, and the Pats reap the benefit of the picks they get (#12. 52nd, and a 4th - 1st conditional pick in 2018 would be good enough for me).

 

[Tunescribe]

I find it interesting that when the season ended EVERYONE felt that JG was gone in some trade package.

No, not everyone -- especially those who understand his skill set and potential value to the Patriots in a Patriots uniform.

On my end, I still hope sanity prevails and JG gets to play football next season for the Browns, and the Pats reap the benefit of the picks they get (#12. 52nd, and a 4th - 1st conditional pick in 2018 would be good enough for me).

Garoppolo still might be traded, but keeping him would be far from insane.

 

[Edelmania]

I agree imo they should trade Garoppolo assuming the Browns are willing to give up #12 + more.

But I also dont think even if they did trade Garoppolo that would be going "all in". I think that is a misconception. All they have done so far was make smart trades and spend cap space in a year that they had plenty of it. They spend mostly to the cap every year, I dont get how this is any different except for the fact that they had more of it.

Nothing they have done has hurt their future, therefore even with a Garoppolo trade I dont think they are going "all in".

 

[amazinPats]

After the Super Bowl ended, it seemed that there was no way Jimmy G was going to be traded. But now in April, I don't see how he cannot be traded. Somewhat influenced by Miguel, I can't see how the team can keep both qbs next year from a financial standpoint. One has to go. Is it this year one goes, or next? If Jimmy G lasts into next year, it might be TB who gets traded. One will leave. It is determined by economics.


edited for typos.

 

[patchick]

He may feel keeping JAG in case is going "All in".

Thanks, I was starting to think I was losing my mind! I've assumed all along that keeping Garoppolo IS the "going all in for this year" move.

Draft picks are about building for the future; employing a starting-caliber backup QB gives the 2017 Patriots the best possible chance of winning the Superbowl.

 

[jimnance]

We all know the Pats will reap the most in a JG trade this year and get next to nothing for him next. Not gonna rehash that.
So most of us assume BB will trade him this year. It's logical. But there's a quote from BB in a Reiss' story right after Brissett was drafted. Many people questioned that pick. Why the hell did the Pats need another QB?
BBs response was along the lines of" QB is the most important position in the game and you put your entire team at risk if you're not set there if something happens".
I also see Schefter, Reiss and Curran all not being surprised if BB keeps JG this year. Those 3 are also probably the 3 most connected inside the Pats org of anyone in media. So maybe the Hoodie is planning to keep him. Or not.
Regardless of what the Jedi Master has planned, he's played it perfectly to this point to maximize JGs value. I still think he trades him,but wouldn't be surprised if he didn't.

 

[GrogansArmy]

I find these threads fun...

...for a while.

Thanks *******, I'm dizzy and nauseous now

 

[patfanken]

No, not everyone -- especially those who understand his skill set and potential value to the Patriots in a Patriots uniform.

REALLY???? Just what exactly IS that "skill set". Does that skill set include the ability to change his contract so he still remains a member of the Pats past this season. Or does that skill set include the magic ability to absorb 17 years of playing experience into 6 quarters?

Because Tuney, unless you are willing to tell me that you have a strong beleif that this is Tom Brady's last season as a member of the Patriots, then JG and his beautiful smile and quick release will have a MINIMAL value for the Pats this coming season season, and after that he goes into the end of the 3rd round (about #100) bargain bin.

In other words what exactly is JG's "value" to the Pats beyond next season, except as a back up QB in the last season of his contract. Please illuminate me.

 

[DarrylS]

One thing we have all learned, Grasshoppers, is that things are not sometimes what they appear to be...

The team we have on paper now, is not the team that we will see on the field on Sept. 7.. be patient.

BB: Close your eyes. What do you hear?
PatsFan: I hear Felger, Borges, Shaughnessy and Tanguay.
BB: Do you hear your own heartbeat?
Patsfan: No.
BB: Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet?
Patsfan: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
BB: Young man, how is it that you do not?

 

[patsfan13]

Until Cleveland uses both their first round picks, don't assume that any trade for Garoppolo is dead. I never thought Garoppolo would be traded until just before the draft because there is no upside to do so. The closer we get to the draft, the more desperate Cleveland (or possibly another team) will get to get him and give up the most value. Trading him in February or March would have put the Pats in a weaker bargaining position.

I like the thinking here, I will go even further, if BB thinks Brady could play 4-6 years more he may take the Browns #33 this year and their #1 pick NEXT year along with another #2 & 3. Next year is the "QB Rich" draft.

BB leverage with JG is closest to the draft not now.

 

[50-yard-line]

First, let me say this isn't a criticism -- rather, just an observation. BB started the off season on fire: signing Gilmore, Guy, Burkhead, trading for Cooks, Allen, and Ealy. That's impressive. Also, of course, re-signing Hightower and Harmon. With those moves the Patriots are in great shape. If they hold on to Butler they are without question improved from last year's Super Bowl winning season and the favorite to win it all again. And maybe that's good enough.

But I honestly thought Belichick was ready to take the final step and pull the trigger on a Garoppolo trade and gain a harvest of picks from Cleveland -- something like #12, #33, and a 2nd round pick next year as well. I think the Browns are willing to give that up but Belichick doesn't seem interested. To me, that's shocking. I can appreciate the value of having a quality backup QB; it's great insurance. It's nice to know that if Brady were to get injured, JG would be there to step in and yes, the Patriots could still win the Super Bowl.

On the flip side, however, is the chance to gain a special player at #12 -- a great pass rusher, a monster LBer, a stud young RB and at #33 (another virtual 1st round pick) you could add another starter. These guys would be under your control with friendly contracts for years to come. Potentially, you could have the greatest team not only in Patriot history, but also, in NFL history. And you could continue the search for the eventual Tom Brady replacement by drafting another young QB or simply sign a decent vet backup (there are few still available) and wait until next year to draft a QB.

I'm not Belichick, but if it were me, I would be of the mindset that I want to put the very best team I could field next year (and the years beyond) and risk trading my backup QB to have a team for the ages. Few teams ever have this opportunity. Few teams are ever in this position.

And who knows? BB is so coy, that he might be thinking that and he's merely trying to fleece Cleveland for as much as possible. But what appears more likely is that Belichick has decided to keep JG for another season. Understandable in some ways; disappointing in other ways.

Here's one fan rooting for the JG trade to happen, although it looks less and less likely with each passing day.

Talk about overthinking it!

Patriots lose Bennett.
Patriots replace him with Dwayne Allen.

Patriots lose Ryan.
Patriots replace him with Gilmore.

Patriots lose Blount (he didn't take their offer, still might be back).
Patriots replace him with Burkhead.

Patriots lose Long and Sheard.
Patriots replace them with Ealy and Guy.

I think you can argue whether we upgraded overall with those five, stayed pretty much the same, or lost a little ground. I think we upgraded a little bit (Gilmore tips the scales, I expect Ealy to play bigger than he has, Guy and Burkhead are under-the-radar worker types, and Allen is a great fit)

That leaves you with one big move: Brandin Cooks. He came at a high price, but I think he's worth it. I admit I didn't know much about him before the trade, but studying, watching, etc., seems like a guy who can get separation anywhere on the field against any corner out there. He should be a perfect fit for Brady and a perfect successor to Edelman when the time comes.

We haven't started the draft segment of our program. Garoppolo and Butler are the two intriguing pieces, sure, and I'd say it's just as likely that they're both back as gone - and BB holds all the cards here with both.

And the Pats still have plenty of money if BB sees an upgrade floating around somewhere. It's been a masterful off-season so far, but "all in"? Nah.

The team that starts training camp will be superior to the one that won the Superbowl. Given the number of free agents they were dealing with, I didn't think that likely.

 

[BTTA]

Talk about overthinking it!

Patriots lose Bennett.
Patriots replace him with Dwayne Allen.

Patriots lose Ryan.
Patriots replace him with Gilmore.

Patriots lose Blount (he didn't take their offer, still might be back).
Patriots replace him with Burkhead.

Patriots lose Long and Sheard.
Patriots replace them with Ealy and Guy.

I think you can argue whether we upgraded overall with those five, stayed pretty much the same, or lost a little ground. I think we upgraded a little bit (Gilmore tips the scales, I expect Ealy to play bigger than he has, Guy and Burkhead are under-the-radar worker types, and Allen is a great fit)

That leaves you with one big move: Brandin Cooks. He came at a high price, but I think he's worth it. I admit I didn't know much about him before the trade, but studying, watching, etc., seems like a guy who can get separation anywhere on the field against any corner out there. He should be a perfect fit for Brady and a perfect successor to Edelman when the time comes.

We haven't started the draft segment of our program. Garoppolo and Butler are the two intriguing pieces, sure, and I'd say it's just as likely that they're both back as gone - and BB holds all the cards here with both.

And the Pats still have plenty of money if BB sees an upgrade floating around somewhere. It's been a masterful off-season so far, but "all in"? Nah.

The team that starts training camp will be superior to the one that wont he Superbowl. Given the number of free agents they were dealing with, I didn't think that likely.

Yes, and as usual, the story of the season will be told largely through injuries. If they can lose only two key players on offense and defense at any given time, as they did last year, they'll have a shot of taking all these personnel riches through another SB.

 

[50-yard-line]

Yes, and as usual, the story of the season will be told largely through injuries. If they can lose only two key players on offense and defense at any given time, as they did last year, they'll have a shot of taking all these personnel riches through another SB.

And as usual, the biggest chip of all will likely be Gronkowski. I really hope BB uses Allen a lot to minimize Gronk's snaps.

 

[1960Pats]

First, let me say this isn't a criticism -- rather, just an observation. BB started the off season on fire: signing Gilmore, Guy, Burkhead, trading for Cooks, Allen, and Ealy. That's impressive. Also, of course, re-signing Hightower and Harmon. With those moves the Patriots are in great shape. If they hold on to Butler they are without question improved from last year's Super Bowl winning season and the favorite to win it all again. And maybe that's good enough.

But I honestly thought Belichick was ready to take the final step and pull the trigger on a Garoppolo trade and gain a harvest of picks from Cleveland -- something like #12, #33, and a 2nd round pick next year as well. I think the Browns are willing to give that up but Belichick doesn't seem interested. To me, that's shocking. I can appreciate the value of having a quality backup QB; it's great insurance. It's nice to know that if Brady were to get injured, JG would be there to step in and yes, the Patriots could still win the Super Bowl.

On the flip side, however, is the chance to gain a special player at #12 -- a great pass rusher, a monster LBer, a stud young RB and at #33 (another virtual 1st round pick) you could add another starter. These guys would be under your control with friendly contracts for years to come. Potentially, you could have the greatest team not only in Patriot history, but also, in NFL history. And you could continue the search for the eventual Tom Brady replacement by drafting another young QB or simply sign a decent vet backup (there are few still available) and wait until next year to draft a QB.

I'm not Belichick, but if it were me, I would be of the mindset that I want to put the very best team I could field next year (and the years beyond) and risk trading my backup QB to have a team for the ages. Few teams ever have this opportunity. Few teams are ever in this position.

And who knows? BB is so coy, that he might be thinking that and he's merely trying to fleece Cleveland for as much as possible. But what appears more likely is that Belichick has decided to keep JG for another season. Understandable in some ways; disappointing in other ways.

Here's one fan rooting for the JG trade to happen, although it looks less and less likely with each passing day.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, or in the case of Brandin Cooks it's worth the 32nd pick in the draft. With trades of draft picks you can always get a sure NYFL player. You might not get that with a draft pick.

 

[Tunescribe]

REALLY???? Just what exactly IS that "skill set". Does that skill set include the ability to change his contract so he still remains a member of the Pats past this season. Or does that skill set include the magic ability to absorb 17 years of playing experience into 6 quarters?

Because Tuney, unless you are willing to tell me that you have a strong beleif that this is Tom Brady's last season as a member of the Patriots, then JG and his beautiful smile and quick release will have a MINIMAL value for the Pats this coming season season, and after that he goes into the end of the 3rd round (about #100) bargain bin.

In other words what exactly is JG's "value" to the Pats beyond next season, except as a back up QB in the last season of his contract. Please illuminate me.

You and I have been around the horn several times on this so I'm not going to repeat myself. I just find it hilarious how the fact he hasn't been traded yet is disturbing you to the point of questioning BB's sanity.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Is there some new 2017 Patsfans Rite of Passage or something that each poster needs to create a separate JAG thread to post their own variation & opinion (not that they haven't posted it a dozen times before in other JAG threads) about what will/should whatever happen?

It makes for an interesting demographic profile that this Board attracts so many frustrated/overlooked/fired/wannabe, NFL General Managers, who post multiple threads questioning/second guessing/advising a guy with Seven Rings, who has taken his team to nine AFCCG's, Seven SB's and Five Lombardi Trophy presentations plus too many Division Titles to count in the last 17 seasons.

Yes, I know, I know..."It's the internet" and also the "Age of Fake News" wherein people are free to post almost anything on any topic, so more power to them...but that same freedom gives me the freedom to say I think it's silly. Gotta love that First Amendment.

 

[jimnance]

It makes for an interesting demographic profile that this Board attracts so many frustrated/overlooked/fired/wannabe, NFL General Managers, who post multiple threads questioning/second guessing/advising a guy with Seven Rings, who has taken his team to nine AFCCG's, Seven SB's and Five Lombardi Trophy presentations plus too many Division Titles to count in the last 17 seasons.

Yes, I know, I know..."It's the internet" and also the "Age of Fake News" wherein people are free to post almost anything on any topic, so more power to them...but that same freedom gives me the freedom to say I think it's silly. Gotta love that First Amendment.

Homer!