Long way out...but will Pats be able to afford both Collins and Hightower?

[Marinlik]

I'm thinking that you're right, particularly after spending TWO draft picks at DE in the top 100 (101) selections. That is likely a hint that they have a pretty good idea of how long Chandler Jones will be here in New England.

Of course, he has the opportunity to make the decision a hell of a lot harder by stepping up and playing consistently this season.

You could also look to the other side of our DL, and see that Ninkovich is getting up there in age, and could drop off quickly. So they want to start looking for a replacement so they have one when the drop off happens, instead of starting to look for a DE when it happens.

 

[supafly]

You could also look to the other side of our DL, and see that Ninkovich is getting up there in age, and could drop off quickly. So they want to start looking for a replacement so they have one when the drop off happens, instead of starting to look for a DE when it happens.

Yes, yes. Good point. DE still seems to be a need for the future, either way, due to Ninkovich's situation.

I still remember when we were somewhat surprised to see him lining up on the line.

 

[DarrylS]

When they moved some of Gronk's bonus to this year, my first thought was they were clearing financial space for Jones, Hightower and Collins...

Not sure all three will be here, but this reminds me of the Seymour situation several years ago.. people would whine and bytch about how bad a game he had as he did not show up in the box score. Then BB would ascend for his press conference and gush about how great Seymour played..

Sometimes it is difficult to assess the play of the defensive line from the stands or from the couch as we do not really know the game plan and the specific assignment of the player... Chandler Jones often fits this scenario.

IMO there is about a 50-50 chance all three will be here..

 

[JarOfMayo51]

When they moved some of Gronk's bonus to this year, my first thought was they were clearing financial space for Jones, Hightower and Collins...

Not sure all three will be here, but this reminds me of the Seymour situation several years ago.. people would whine and bytch about how bad a game he had as he did not show up in the box score. Then BB would ascend for his press conference and gush about how great Seymour played..

Sometimes it is difficult to assess the play of the defensive line from the stands or from the couch as we do not really know the game plan and the specific assignment of the player... Chandler Jones often fits this scenario.

IMO there is about a 50-50 chance all three will be here..

Jones is a typical 4-3 end though, so his numbers should be gushing if he's expecting to be paid elite DE money.

Seymour was a 3-4 2-gap technique DE, who had more responsibility and didn't always just get after the QB

 

[JarOfMayo51]

They can easily keep all 3 I think...


Hightower will essentially take over Mayos cap hit

Revis and Wilfork's options not being exercised basically leave enough left over for both Collins and Jones..

That is assuming of course that Jones doesn't expect to be paid as an elite DE, because he has not shown to be elite in his 3 year career

 

[borg]

The silver lining to this conundrum is that all three players will have extra motivation to deliver the pain. First player to send a QB to the emergency room gets the contract. ( no paper trails though....Wells is lurking)

 

[DarrylS]

Jones is a typical 4-3 end though, so his numbers should be gushing if he's expecting to be paid elite DE money.

Seymour was a 3-4 2-gap technique DE, who had more responsibility and didn't always just get after the QB

The point was that just because Jones does not show up on the stat sheet, does not mean he did not "do his job"... we do not know the game plan and we do not know his assignment.

 

[Pigskin Pete]

If Jones plays lights out this year..along with Hightower and Collins (who i think will be the best LB this year in the NFL)...then what...ouch....headache

THIS!!

Collins is the definitive priority. C. Jones is #2 assuming he has another good year. Hightower, who has really come on - especially last year, may be a luxury the Pats can't afford when you consider:

1. Wagner's extension this summer @ close to $11M/yr
2. L. David's extension this summer @$10M/yr
3. D. Levy's extension this summer @ $8.5M/yr

An argument could be made that Hightower is deserving of an extension equal to or exceeding all of these guys. But now you are doling out $10M+ next year to:

1. Brady ($15M)
2. Ch. Jones (guesstimate of $12M)
3. Collins (guesstimate of $13M)
4. Hightower (guesstimate of $11.5M)
5. Solder (franchised at 13.5M)

That is $65M against a cap of $150M, or 43% of cap space for 5 guys. Very unpatriot-like to have so much of the cap focused on so few players. In this scenario, Hightower or Jones will be the odd man out. A good argument could be made for either, but at the end of the day, is Chandler easier to "replace" than Hightower? Today, it would seem as though Ch. Jones is more replaceable due to Sheard, and potentially developing rookies such as Flowers.

 

[borg]

The point was that just because Jones does not show up on the stat sheet, does not mean he did not "do his job"... we do not know the game plan and we do not know his assignment.

Pretty sure setting the edge is part of the game plan for every 4-3 DE and Jones struggles

 

[Oswlek]

I'd guess that Jones is the odd man out.

Considering the investment at the position made in April, I have to agree with you.

I hope that you are right but history is on my side. The NEP cap management spreads the wealth and avoids concentrating too much on a given position group - in this case the linebacker group.

What precedent is there to not invest too much in a given position group?

 

[everlong]

If Jones plays lights out this year..along with Hightower and Collins (who i think will be the best LB this year in the NFL)...then what...ouch....headache

Yes I'll have a giant headache celebrating that Super Bowl victory.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm thinking that you're right, particularly after spending TWO draft picks at DE in the top 100 (101) selections. That is likely a hint that they have a pretty good idea of how long Chandler Jones will be here in New England.

Of course, he has the opportunity to make the decision a hell of a lot harder by stepping up and playing consistently this season.

I'll channel my internal Ben Volin and say that there is a 100% chance that there is a chance that one of the three will be gone. Which one and what percentage that is I don't know.

With that said, HT and Jones are Pro-Bowl level players. The deserve big money.

However, Collins is an All-Pro (IMO). Like BB said, guys like him don't grown on trees.

I agree- drafting Flowers and Grissom were future moves

Signing Sheard was a depth move but if they like him, would extend if Jones or HT walk.

Chances go up that all 3 stay is if they agree to a Gronk-type discount deal but I don't see it happening.

 

[IllegalContact]

The point was that just because Jones does not show up on the stat sheet, does not mean he did not "do his job"... we do not know the game plan and we do not know his assignment.

speak for yourself......I know exactly what a 4-3 DE is supposed to do..........Jones has earned the money in his rookie contract and that's about it.........as his curve goes, he will not be getting the team option of 7.8M for 2016......there is always a far superior player for that position available in FA for less than that $$

 

[JMC00]

as his curve goes, he will not be getting the team option of 7.8M for 2016....

It's already been picked up so he is gonna get it. Unless you are saying the he will be cut after this year to free up that money

 

[IllegalContact]

It's already been picked up so he is gonna get it. Unless you are saying the he will be cut after this year to free up that money

unless it is already guaranteed, picking up the option last april would seem a mere formality since if they are able to cut him, it would be no different than not exercising the option......good point tho

EDIT: per patscap, seems like he can be cut prior to june 2 for a complete cap savings (same with hightower)

 

[strngplyr]

I love Jones as a person but he may not even start over Sheard THIS season. Sheard has had some great reports from camp and when he played DE in CLE he was very good.

 

[Marinlik]

Jones is a typical 4-3 end though, so his numbers should be gushing if he's expecting to be paid elite DE money.

Seymour was a 3-4 2-gap technique DE, who had more responsibility and didn't always just get after the QB

One thing to consider is that the Pats rarely allow the ends to just go all in on rushing the QB. They often play with more contain responsibility than other ends. Both towards the QB, but also towards the RB in pass routes in the backfield. Chandler had 11.5 Sacks in 2013, that's pretty good for a 4-3 end. It tied him for 7 in the league in sacks. Sure, it's not JJ Watt good. But as I've said many times here. There is a huge gap between being an average end, and being JJ Watt. And Chandler Jones is above average.

I also think that people severely underrate Chandler as a run stopper. He was aweful in the Chiefs game at it, but hey, all players pretty much sucked that game. And since then people has started saying how bad he is at run stopping. He is not perfect at it. But he is pretty good.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Jones has been a good DE that we've been patiently waiting to see break out into an elite one.

I'm fine with him as just a good DE, so long as he doesn't expect to be paid like an elite one

 

[JarOfMayo51]

One thing to consider is that the Pats rarely allow the ends to just go all in on rushing the QB. They often play with more contain responsibility than other ends. Both towards the QB, but also towards the RB in pass routes in the backfield. Chandler had 11.5 Sacks in 2013, that's pretty good for a 4-3 end. It tied him for 7 in the league in sacks. Sure, it's not JJ Watt good. But as I've said many times here. There is a huge gap between being an average end, and being JJ Watt. And Chandler Jones is above average.

I also think that people severely underrate Chandler as a run stopper. He was aweful in the Chiefs game at it, but hey, all players pretty much sucked that game. And since then people has started saying how bad he is at run stopping. He is not perfect at it. But he is pretty good.

Yea I agree, I would classify Jones as Good, not Great (yet)

 

[mgteich]

This is a 2017 decision at the earliest. I think that this is really a 2018 decision. By that time, Morris might develop. Alternatively, we might draft another front seven player or two that will develop. Belichick might pick up a player from another team. A lot can happen in three seasons and two drafts.

2016
Hightower can play for there 5th year salary number. We would certainly pick up the 5th year options for Collins and Jones (there is no cost).

2017
Collins and Jones could be extended or could play for their 5th year contract amount.
There MAY be a choice between Mayo and Hightower. Or we may rework Mayo's deal and sing Hightower.

2018
Mayo will likely be gone, or being paid much less. We can then decide whether to pay Jones and/or Collins.