Let's applaud the Pats FO for

[CrazyDave]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

C'mon ladies, break it up.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

delicious?? I didn't know we were talking about meals.. hahahah..

Bottom line we used the money more wisely.. Moss and Welkers probably wouldn't be here if we had Graham..


NEXT

No, bottom line is that they should have re-signed Graham, and they had the money to do so.

 

[mcsully]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

No, bottom line is that they should have re-signed Graham, and they had the money to do so.

Absolutely incorrect...

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2007 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page


They had only 1 million to spend.. How would they fit Grahams contract??? THey couldn't.. As I said before.. NEXT

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Absolutely incorrect...

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2007 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page


They had only 1 million to spend.. How would they fit Grahams contract??? THey couldn't.. As I said before.. NEXT

Actually, there was no question that they had the money, because other players could have had contracts renegotiated and Kyle Brady's $2,306,720 cap figure wouldn't have been there to count against the cap. I do like how you think you proved something, though. You go boy!

P.S. Double check that million dollar claim you're making as well.

 

[Tyler.Durden]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

This is watson's last year of his contract right?

With his injuries, whats the chance he is here next year?

 

[mcsully]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Actually, there was no question that they had the money, because other players could have had contracts renegotiated and Kyle Brady's $2,306,720 cap figure wouldn't have been there to count against the cap. I do like how you think you proved something, though. You go boy!

P.S. Double check that million dollar claim you're making as well.

LIke talking to a wall with some of you... Actually blown away with these comments.. Woud you pay player X top TE money if he could only block? If you think yes, then you really need to learn more about what the pats have done over the years..

If you think the pats would have kept him for that price, then why didn't they? because they didn't value him at that price.. Considering he has 2 catches this year and is making top TE money.. That is absolutely not a good deal for the Broncos..

& the comments about the Pats going 19-0.. We'll never know because he's not here..

I don't think I proved a point... Point is made by facts.. Little production, big money.. and no longer a pat..

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

LIke talking to a wall with some of you... Actually blown away with these comments.. Woud you pay player X top TE money if he could only block? If you think yes, then you really need to learn more about what the pats have done over the years..

If you think the pats would have kept him for that price, then why didn't they? because they didn't value him at that price.. Considering he has 2 catches this year and is making top TE money.. That is absolutely not a good deal for the Broncos..

& the comments about the Pats going 19-0.. We'll never know because he's not here..

I don't think I proved a point... Point is made by facts.. Little production, big money.. and no longer a pat..

Now you've changed your argument. That's good, because you were completely wrong before. Unfortunately for this new approach you're now arguing, the team failed with Kyle Brady and haven't been able to replace Graham's blocking ability at the tight end position. It would have been the better move to spend the extra cash for Graham. I find the fact that you denigrate his blocking skills ("only block") telling, though, given the obvious reality of the Patriots disagreement with that attitude. The team chose not to pay top dollar for a top quality tight end, and the dropoff to the lesser players they've brought in has been significant.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I read an article that stated that Daniel Graham wanted to stay but the Patriots waited too long to offer him a contract.

Does anyone remember him "wham" blocking in the SuperBowl against the Panthers?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Maybe his salary demands were too high, we will never know. But I can't see praising the FO over his departure.

Well, we DO know his salary demands were too high. We know that the Broncos paid him to be an all around TE - a blocker and a TE - and what they have is a blocking TE.

In fairness to Graham he went down with an injury last year and I don't know if he's back to 100% - but even before then it was clear he was going to pretty much be just a blocking TE at the price of $30 million over 5 years with $15 million guranteed.

Does anyone think he's going to finish out that contract? Although they'd take a $9 million cap hit, it wouldn't surprise me to see him pressured to take a pay cut or be cut next year when his salary starts to go up. Owners know the cap is monopoly money but probably aren't keen to pay Graham $3.2 million in salary next year on top of the pro-rated $3 million he's already received for 2009 as well.

Compare that to Scheffler's contract - a 4 year $2.7 million contract with $1 million guranteed and tell me that Graham wasn't overpaid as an all around TE.

Graham's making as much in one year as Scheffler is for his entire contract. And Graham's salary averages $4 million in the each of the last two years of his contract, bringing him up to $7 million a year when you count his pro-rated bonus.

That's Adalius Thomas money. As much as I liked Graham's blocking I put about a $3 million per season price tag on that at BEST. The Broncos may wind up paying out $15 million over 2 years if they cut him next year, and an average of $6 million a season if they cut him in 2010.

And that's about the value that Belichick seemed to place on a blocking TE as Kyle Brady was earning about $2.5 million.

As everyone knows Belichick usually has a salary slot for each position in his mind and that's apparently what it was - not the $6 million per season Graham would get if he finishes his contract - or the $8 million per season he'd have earned if they cut him after this season.

Whether or not Kyle Brady worked out as a blocking TE is irrelevant - Belichick didn't pay him $2.5 million with the intention of him failing any more than the Broncos have paid Graham $15 million guranteed to be a failed all around pass catching/blocking TE.

At the end of the day, as much as I miss his blocking, it can't be denied that $6 million a season for a blocking TE is a VERY high price to pay.

 

[mcsully]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

In fairness to Graham he went down with an injury last year and I don't know if he's back to 100% - but even before then it was clear he was going to pretty much be just a blocking TE at the price of $30 million over 5 years with $15 million guranteed.

ESPN - Daniel Graham Stats, News, Photos - Denver Broncos

He played in 15 games..

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

No, bottom line is that they should have re-signed Graham, and they had the money to do so.

Could the Patriots have matched the Broncos and signed Graham? Sure. There's any number of ways to move money around.

But SHOULD they have done what the Broncos did - paying him $19 million over 3 seasons assuming they cut him in 2010?

C'mon. I value blocking TEs as much as the next guy, but not at more than $6 million a season.

Stop being argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative. No one's asserting that the Broncos are getting good value.

Even Shanahan stated that they were paying Graham to be an all around TE and now admits that's not what they got.

 

[mcsully]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

I think u really should reread what I wrote because my opening statement stated he had "limited talent (ie he only was a good blocker)", & "smart move letting a Veteran walk away and let him get his money else where.. "

Not to mention I love the fact the link I provided was basically ignored.. PLus the idea that its a 1 year deal.. Remember we would have him for another few years and that would count more against our cap..

Now you've changed your argument. That's good, because you were completely wrong before. Unfortunately for this new approach you're now arguing, the team failed with Kyle Brady and haven't been able to replace Graham's blocking ability at the tight end position. It would have been the better move to spend the extra cash for Graham. I find the fact that you denigrate his blocking skills ("only block") telling, though, given the obvious reality of the Patriots disagreement with that attitude. The team chose not to pay top dollar for a top quality tight end, and the dropoff to the lesser players they've brought in has been significant.

They already had a better TE on their roster, BW. And Watson is a much better alround TE than Graham and if you think otherwise son, you really should put down madden or fantasy football and watch some real football

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

ESPN - Daniel Graham Stats, News, Photos - Denver Broncos

He played in 15 games..

Yes - and he injured his ankle in December and pulled a hamstring this pre-season.

As I said, I don't know if he's 100% yet - hamstrings can take awhile.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Could the Patriots have matched the Broncos and signed Graham? Sure. There's any number of ways to move money around.

But SHOULD they have done what the Broncos did - paying him $19 million over 3 seasons assuming they cut him in 2010?

C'mon. I value blocking TEs as much as the next guy, but not at more than $6 million a season.

Stop being argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative. No one's asserting that the Broncos are getting good value.

Even Shanahan stated that they were paying Graham to be an all around TE and now admits that's not what they got.

Let's round off some numbers. Brady = $2 million and Graham = $5 million

Now, do you think that the Patriots would have paid the extra $3 million if they knew it would have won them the Super Bowl?

Of course they would have. However, they didn't have the benefit of hindsight. They thought they could replace Graham's production with a cheaper tight end. They were wrong. For most of last season, that didn't matter. However, in the biggest game in NFL history, it mattered a great deal.

 

[mcsully]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Yes - and he injured his ankle in December and pulled a hamstring this pre-season.

As I said, I don't know if he's 100% yet - hamstrings can take awhile.

The injury occurred 9 months ago.. The ankle must have healed and hamstring must be okay cause he's not on the injury report for last week


NFL Injury Report Week 2 NFL Injury Report

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

They already had a better TE on their roster, BW. And Watson is a much better alround TE than Graham and if you think otherwise son, you really should put down madden or fantasy football and watch some real football

Graham is a vastly superior blocker to Watson. It's not even a contest. Unlike you, I'm not going to get all giddy over reception numbers for tight ends. There's more to the position than that.

 

[mcsully]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Let's round off some numbers. Brady = $2 million and Graham = $5 million

Now, do you think that the Patriots would have paid the extra $3 million if they knew it would have won them the Super Bowl?

Being generic we'll use your 2 mill for Brady and 5 mill for Graham.. Remember the pats only had about 1 million of free space.. Where's that other 2 coming from? Ask Moss to take a bigger hit? how about this year? Who takes the hit? Fact is if the pats wanted him for that price, they would have brought him back.. And they didn't

Your reasoning thinking that 1 player like Graham would have changed the outcome of the SB is the thinking of a 9 year old.. Reminds me of this weeks articles saying if faulk was in blocking for Brady, he would still be around.. Thats crazy thought and you can't prove it..

 

[mcsully]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Graham is a vastly superior blocker to Watson. It's not even a contest. Unlike you, I'm not going to get all giddy over reception numbers for tight ends. There's more to the position than that.

As I said my friend, Watson is the BETTER all around player..

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

As I said my friend, Watson is the BETTER all around player..

I know what you said. I don't agree.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Lets applaud the Pats FO for

Being generic we'll use your 2 mill for Brady and 5 mill for Graham.. Remember the pats only had about 1 million of free space.. Where's that other 2 coming from? Ask Moss to take a bigger hit? how about this year? Who takes the hit? Fact is if the pats wanted him for that price, they would have brought him back.. And they didn't

Your reasoning thinking that 1 player like Graham would have changed the outcome of the SB is the thinking of a 9 year old.. Reminds me of this weeks articles saying if faulk was in blocking for Brady, he would still be around.. Thats crazy thought and you can't prove it..

And you can't prove otherwise, yet you're insulting my reasoning when it makes sense and defending your own which doesn't. However, to say that thinking a better blocker in the Super Bowl would have made the difference is "crazy thought" just shows me that you don't grasp the game, so continuing this conversation is useless.