Let Drake be Drake....

[RobertWeathers]

Agreed. I believe TB12 just had it in him from birth.. that fire...that competitive spirit.. Drake is a competitor too.. a family full of athletes.. if you listen to the veterans like Henry, rham, Diggs over the summer they all said he's been much more vocal and demanding as a leader. Those are things you want to see. I just want the kid to start attaining the most important stat a qb can have.. wins!!!

Yep. There are different levels of competitiveness. There are psychos like TB12, Bird, MJ, Magic, etc who lose sleep and are so insecure when they do lose they can't live with themselves until they win or is it something less than that.

The "leadership" question is another one. It;s great that hes more vocal and demanding but that doesn't mean his offensive linemen and WRs "believe" in him and would sacrifice themselves because he'll lead them. He needs to earn that.

We don't know what Maye is on either one of those.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Funny you say that because Bedard followed up by saying he knows it's almost cliche to do so but it is helpful to compare Maye to Josh Allen.

He said Josh Allen was also raw and didn't display urgency and was also working on his fundamentals his first few seasons without it being very visible to people outside the team. We saw improvement year by year, but it took a few years to see it come together. And he says now Josh has become an absolute maniac about mechanics. He says he works in the off season with guys like Jordan Palmer to improve his mechanics.

Bedard also said he doesn't have much of a read on Maye's personality but said he's going to make it a priority to try to dig deeper as time goes on.

Bottom line, though, is Bedard thinks guys can change, and says we need to give things time to play out.

Note this does not mean "Maye will be the next Josh Allen" like simpletons feel the urge to say. It just means he's young and there's at least one example of how some players take time to get comfortable, and once you're comfortable it's easier to display more confidence, urgency, intensity, etc. Of course we have the counter example of Mac Jones who never got comfortable so that can happen too.

Yep. Sometimes when people are thrown into a succeed of die/swim or sink situation they evolve or change. I heard the same thing about Allen. I think he has evolved. I don't know about "changed" but no question hes become a pros-pro and his teammates would die for him.

 

[203Pat]

Sometimes people on here lock into a take and defend it at all costs in spite of any context or change in scenario. Things aren't binary, and conditions of the ground may change. You don't need to lock yourself into "Drake is going to suck" and cling to it forever, or the same thing on the other side where some people want to whistle past the graveyard regarding his flaws. Give it time. Let him get comfortable in the offense. Let the offensive line gel. Let him work on chemistry with the receivers.

Long story short, get a grip.

 

[sb1]

After the Mac Jones experience I'm more cautious about anointing anyone as "the guy". I still want to give Maye a chance. Let's see how it plays out.

 

[203Pat]

After the Mac Jones experience I'm more cautious about anointing anyone as "the guy". I still want to give Maye a chance. Let's see how it plays out.

In regards to Mac I am a complete hypocrite based on my last post lol. I hated the Mac Jones pick from the minute we made it. I hated that he had a noodle arm. I hated that he was a Bama QB with first round picks all over the offense propping him up. I hated that he was from Florida. And I hated the way he acted on the field with his dirty crap. I hated his face.

 

[TheRainMaker]

After the Mac Jones experience I'm more cautious about anointing anyone as "the guy". I still want to give Maye a chance. Let's see how it plays out.

We don't have a choice and he's only in his 2nd season.

In regards to Mac I am a complete hypocrite based on my last post lol. I hated the Mac Jones pick from the minute we made it. I hated that he had a noodle arm. I hated that he was a Bama QB with first round picks all over the offense propping him up. I hated that he was from Florida. And I hated the way he acted on the field with his dirty crap. I hated his face.

I wanted Parsons if available, but I'm glad he wasn't as it would've made the selection even more difficult for Bill that year. Because Parsons was gone, Jones was the obvious pick. However, he had major red flags from the day he took the field which was met with pitch forks by other posters. Same thing is happening with Maye. People really don't want to face the reality that the Pats may have to continue the search for a QB. We may have a better idea at the end of this season.

 

[mgteich]

In regards to Mac I am a complete hypocrite based on my last post lol. I hated the Mac Jones pick from the minute we made it. I hated that he had a noodle arm. I hated that he was a Bama QB with first round picks all over the offense propping him up. I hated that he was from Florida. And I hated the way he acted on the field with his dirty crap. I hated his face.

I know that many folks thought that the team shouldn't take a chance with the 5th QB in the 2021 draft. I would note that the next prospect was drafted at the bottom of the 2nd round.

IMO, we took a reasonable shot. That happens when you need a QB. Did have a terrible year? Well, compare his play and his stats with the other 4 QB's taken. Mac was fine by comparison. We would glady take those stats for Maye in this, his second year.

Much happened with the patriot organization in Mac's second year. Obviously, he lost all confidence and failed to produce under our awesome set of coaches. Maybe he will be a backup for a couple of more years, perhaps not. In any case, he probably could have been a better (although not good enough) QB with a better supporting cast, better coaching, and a better all-around team environment.

 

[203Pat]

We don't have a choice and he's only in his 2nd season.

I wanted Parsons if available, but I'm glad he wasn't as it would've made the selection even more difficult for Bill that year. Because Parsons was gone, Jones was the obvious pick. However, he had major red flags from the day he took the field which was met with pitch forks by other posters. Same thing is happening with Maye. People really don't want to face the reality that the Pats may have to continue the search for a QB. We may have a better idea at the end of this season.

The main difference to me is Drake has the physical skills needed to be an NFL QB. He might succeed he might fail but at least he has an arm and some mobility. Mac had such a low ceiling because of his terrible arm and lack of mobility.

 

[203Pat]

I know that many folks thought that the team shouldn't take a chance with the 5th QB in the 2021 draft. I would note that the next prospect was drafted at the bottom of the 2nd round.

IMO, we took a reasonable shot. That happens when you need a QB. Did have a terrible year? Well, compare his play and his stats with the other 4 QB's taken. Mac was fine by comparison. We would glady take those stats for Maye in this, his second year.

Much happened with the patriot organization in Mac's second year. Obviously, he lost all confidence and failed to produce under our awesome set of coaches. Maybe he will be a backup for a couple of more years, perhaps not. In any case, he probably could have been a better (although not good enough) QB with a better supporting cast, better coaching, and a better all-around team environment.

I completely understand why we made the pick at the time and kind of placated myself by working under the theory that the unknown (Mac) was better than the known (broken down Cam, Hoyer, etc) but I just didn't like Mac Jones the player. I don’t think there was any chance he was/will ever be a high end starter in the league but we (Bill) certainly derailed any slim chance he would pan out.

 

[mgteich]

.However, he had major red flags from the day he took the field which was met with pitch forks by other posters. Same thing is happening with Maye. People really don't want to face the reality that the Pats may have to continue the search for a QB. We may have a better idea at the end of this season.

I think that the situations are quite different.

2021
1) Mac was the 5th QB chosen with no other choice available (the next QB was drafted at 64).
2) Mac had a reasonable rookie season. He did as well as could be expected and he did as well as any of the other rookie QB's.
3) In his 2nd year, the team basically folded. There was poor caoching, poor management and an overall losing attitude. Mac might have been a superhero QB and done better in spite of the obstacles. He wasn't and didn't. He lost all confidence. I don't think that any of the other QB's (picked AHEAD OF HIM) would have done any better. In any case, he was the best available draft choice at draft time.

2024
1) This time there were four QB's available when we picked (all arguably better than anyone in 2021).
2) Perhaps we MIGHT have been able to trade down a couple of slots, but that isn't at all clear.
3) We had to choose among FOUR reasonable prospects. We could have picked one of the two more ready to go: Nix and Penix. We could have picked the mystery man (with a potentially high ceiling and a low floor): McCarthy. Or, we could picked an inexperienced choice that was projected to be the best in the future. We made the consensus choice. We chose Maye.
4) The team folded in his ROOKIE year. Maye did NOT look good. It is NOT clear that he is much better now than when he first started last year.
5) The future is OPEN. We don't know what Maye can become. HOWEVER, an OK #15 QB seems a reasonable expectation, and top 10 certainly seems possible. Personally, I don't think that he is a top 5 QB or will become one. He doesn't seem to heve the "it" factor required for that kind of achievement.

Vrabel has two years to make a decision. Josh has 2 years to develop Maye. Vrabel has done more to improve the team than almost anyone dreamed possible. But going from bottom to being a real contender is more than a one-year job. He will do much more in the next off-season, especially on the OL.
===========
We could draft a mid-level QB in 2026 as a matter of course, but that is another issue that we have on this board. And, yes, I was happy to see us sign a 3rd QB.

 

[Bill Lee]

Sometimes people on here lock into a take and defend it at all costs in spite of any context or change in scenario. Things aren't binary, and conditions of the ground may change. You don't need to lock yourself into "Drake is going to suck" and cling to it forever, or the same thing on the other side where some people want to whistle past the graveyard regarding his flaws. Give it time. Let him get comfortable in the offense. Let the offensive line gel. Let him work on chemistry with the receivers.

Long story short, get a grip.

And other times they take a nuanced point of view and "interpret" it by saying "so you really hate X" so they can then call you a hater.

Oh well, stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Bill Lee]

The only thing is... say we moved off Josh. Now it's drakes 3nd OC in 2 seasons. The best course is to fix the problems, continue on with drakes development and see where we are at by mid-season.. I don't anticipate the offense looking terrible as we go along. Just my thoughts.

That's why Vrabel and Cowden get paid the big bucks. At the end of the season they gotta sit down and evaluate things. If Drake is not improving, is that on Josh or is it on Drake, or is it on the players around him? What's the best way to improve: a new OC, a new QB, or a lot of new players? Some of the above? All of the above?

Indeed it's a problem to be on the 3rd OC in three seasons, but it's a bigger problem if you stick with an OC that isn't able to set things up so the QB can improve.

 

[zydecochris]

I have always been more pro-Josh than most, but I just wanted someone with a fresh set of eyes more than anything. The thing that gives me some hope is that Josh did incorporate some RPO packages in the Cam Newton season, so it isn't unreasonable to think he will work that into the offense for Maye. On the other hand, my biggest worry is that McDaniels has Maye running the Brady passing offense, which is heavily reliant on precision and timing. Of course, you want your QB to be dialed in when it comes to those things, but a big part of what Maye can do better than any other quarterback Josh has had is his ability to extend plays with his legs and buy guys time to get open. I made the analogy the other day about having a Ferrari and not taking it out of 2nd gear. At some point, I hope McDaniels gets Drake Maye out on the highway and lets him open it up.

This is what I said right after it was announced Josh was back. Granted it is a small sample size based on a few snaps in preseason and one game together but it does seem like McDaniels is running the same offense he always has that really has only worked with the greatest player of all time.

Josh has always done very well with a smart QB running a precision passing offense with everything planned to a “t”. He achieved wonderful results with TB (who admittedly was perfectly suited for that offense, as well as, umm…being the GOAT). I thought Mac Jones was a reasonable fit to Josh also, despite his physical limitations. Mac was smart, studious, followed directions to a “t” early on, BUT had little spontaneous “make something out of nothing” in him. Of course, when Josh left, the Matt Patricia as OC experiment was a total disaster, Mac lost ALL of his confidence, and after things turned south so badly he turned out not to be particularly emotionally tough either, which made things worse.

Now the question is: can Josh, who had a bunch of success doing things a particular way for many years, adapt to Maye, who is a completely different type of QB? Maye’s style (not his competence of course) is very much the Josh Allen “run around and make something out of nothing” type. Can Josh adapt his system to his very talented but raw and inexperienced 22 year old QB? One game doesn’t show anything, but we should start getting an inkling of an answer as the season progresses.

 

[mgteich]

That's why Vrabel and Cowden get paid the big bucks. At the end of the season they gotta sit down and evaluate things. If Drake is not improving, is that on Josh or is it on Drake, or is it on the players around him? What's the best way to improve: a new OC, a new QB, or a lot of new players? Some of the above? All of the above?

Indeed it's a problem to be on the 3rd OC in three seasons, but it's a bigger problem if you stick with an OC that isn't able to set things up so the QB can improve.

Or maybe none of the above.

After this season, even if our team wins 5-8 (the under), I suspect that we will NOT need a lot of new players, just the normal 1/3. The only place I see huge resources being spent is perhaps on a WR and definitely on 2-3 more OL's. Of course, there will other changes as always,

For example, I don't see Tavai, Dugger, Onwenu or Jennings coming back, or probably even Marcus Jones. Hollins is merely a placeholder, there until someone can force him out of his reps and ultimately his roster spot.

 

[signbabybrady]

Or maybe none of the above.

After this season, even if our team wins 5-8 (the under), I suspect that we will NOT need a lot of new players, just the normal 1/3. The only place I see huge resources being spent is perhaps on a WR and definitely on 2-3 more OL's. Of course, there will other changes as always,

For example, I don't see Tavai, Dugger, Onwenu or Jennings coming back, or probably even Marcus Jones. Hollins is merely a placeholder, there until someone can force him out of his reps and ultimately his roster spot.

Why would you write off a team captain like that?

 

[mgteich]

Why would you write off a team captain like that?

It isn't a matter of writing anyone off.

Marcus Jones has an extensive injury history and may end up wanting more money that Vrabel is willing to give.

I'm 100% fine if Vrabel chooses to open Kraft's wallet and pay Jones. I just think that this has less than a 50% chance of happening.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Can you imagine this place if we are Drafting in the Top 5 in 26.

You read it here first, or maybe you didn’t. We will be! In hope to god not though. I was one of the few that wanted BJ. Not because JMd is bad or anything, but to get off the whole BB tit….i would think a rebuild aka starting over, doesn’t mean bringing in more of the old guard. I wasn’t too happy with McD’s play calling the past few years of Brady being here also but that may have had to do with Brady being checked out those few years…

 

[TinhWoodhead]

sounds like a new Drake song

 

[Real fan 02]

I can definitely draw some parallels to this situation and Vrabel's time in Tennessee.

When he became HC in TEN he inherited Marcus Mariota, who was also a very highly drafted QB that hadn't really proven himself yet. Granted, he was on his fourth year instead of his second, but still. Vrabel stuck with Mariota that first season, but then in year two he benched Mariota after a few weeks and started Tannehill instead, which is what lead to a couple years of success and making the playoffs.

So I think he is definitely doing all he can to help Maye, but if Maye doesn't get it this year, Vrabel won't be scared to pull the trigger and replace him next year. Not sure with whom; Dobbs sucks, but maybe he likes DeVito, or will try to find a different free agent or draftee next year. But, I am sure "Plan A" is to just ride with Drake.

That's why Vrabel and Cowden get paid the big bucks. At the end of the season they gotta sit down and evaluate things. If Drake is not improving, is that on Josh or is it on Drake, or is it on the players around him? What's the best way to improve: a new OC, a new QB, or a lot of new players? Some of the above? All of the above?

Indeed it's a problem to be on the 3rd OC in three seasons, but it's a bigger problem if you stick with an OC that isn't able to set things up so the QB can improve.

True. I just believe that we have to stay the course. Continue with the the people around Drake that we have. As we go along Continue to build up the roster and sign players that were drafted to second contracts.. Drake is a smart player and he knows he needs to better in certain areas of his game beyond the scope of coaching.

 

[Real fan 02]

It isn't a matter of writing anyone off.

Marcus Jones has an extensive injury history and may end up wanting more money that Vrabel is willing to give.

I'm 100% fine if Vrabel chooses to open Kraft's wallet and pay Jones. I just think that this has less than a 50% chance of happening.

Marcus was named a captain this season. Guys been one of the best returners in the league and has turned into a pretty good slot cb.. I think he does resign as Marcus has expressed his desire to want to stay here. He re-signs.