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NFL News League Filing Grievance Against Player’s Union Over Annual Surveys

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I recognize they THINK owners will give in if the public thinks they are cheap, but I think they are wrong, and the real consequence of airing dirty laundry publicly is that it can cause fans to leave the sport.
I never got the sense that fans took these surveys all that seriously. You have to be a pretty hardcore fan to know that they exist and I doubt they are the reason any fan is leaving the sport. If the Pats' low score on facilities or the Jets low score on ownership is causing the fans to leave those teams, it's because they have a lot bigger problems that the fans are truly aware of than the results of a survey.
 
I never got the sense that fans took these surveys all that seriously. You have to be a pretty hardcore fan to know that they exist and I doubt they are the reason any fan is leaving the sport. If the Pats' low score on facilities or the Jets low score on ownership is causing the fans to leave those teams, it's because they have a lot bigger problems that the fans are truly aware of than the results of a survey.
There is no other reason to make them public than to turn sentiment against ownership. Fans leave when they see greed in sports. Sure it’s not like a work stoppage, but it contributes. Otherwise why would they release the public?
 
There is no other reason to make them public than to turn sentiment against ownership. Fans leave when they see greed in sports. Sure it’s not like a work stoppage, but it contributes. Otherwise why would they release the public?
Sure. I guess I would say that they add to the noise. If I’m a Jets fan (shudder) and I’m already mad at my team, and I see that the players grade ownership poorly, it reinforces my bad feelings.

But I think the public pressure does a lot more good than bad.
 
But I think the public pressure does a lot more good than bad.

It does nothing bad for the players.

Are people not going to watch the NFL because a player poll shows the Jets or Patriots have the worst facilities?
 
Because you first negotiate and bring people to the table. If they don't respond, then you employ other tactics. Just because it's a tool for later resort does not diminish its efficacy. And I'm sure the NFLPA has exhausted many lanes. And no, it is not dubious. Not sure where you get that from.



That's the point. That's what forces a greedy owner to rethink their move.
Do you have any evidence that the NFLPA negotiated issues in the surveys, were unhappy and then release them as a later resort?
I’m not aware if any such negotiation. What are the “many lanes” they exhausted around survey results that failed?

Of course the impact of releasing a report of players composing about the conditions under which they make their millions has dubious effectiveness. What do you think it clearly accomplishes?

They are in a collectively bargained partnership. If whining to the public about conditions is how they think they can gain power, they are doing it wrong.
 
It does nothing bad for the players.

Are people not going to watch the NFL because a player poll shows the Jets or Patriots have the worst facilities?
Then why make it public? If no one cares what dies it accomplish.
It certainly has a negative for players. They are in a collectively bargained partnership and they are creating a way to criticize their partner.
Labor strife absolutely costs sports leagues fans.
Doing this increases the likelihood of labor strife, they are in court over it for chissakes.
 
Sure. I guess I would say that they add to the noise. If I’m a Jets fan (shudder) and I’m already mad at my team, and I see that the players grade ownership poorly, it reinforces my bad feelings.

But I think the public pressure does a lot more good than bad.
I think in the bigger picture fans get sick of millionaire fighting billionaires over nickels. This isn’t straw that breaks the camels back but it contributes.

Is the league more likely to have CBA issues and risk work stoppage if one side is creating a way to criticize the other to try and get public sympathy and it ends up in court? Of course.
 
Then why make it public? If no one cares what dies it accomplish.
It certainly has a negative for players. They are in a collectively bargained partnership and they are creating a way to criticize their partner.
Labor strife absolutely costs sports leagues fans.
Doing this increases the likelihood of labor strife, they are in court over it for chissakes.

Who said no once cares? Obviously Woody Johnson cares.

It's just an embarrassment to certain owners. but fans aren't going to leave because a player facility is subpar
 
It certainly has a negative for players. They are in a collectively bargained partnership and they are creating a way to criticize their partner.
Labor strife absolutely costs sports leagues fans.
Doing this increases the likelihood of labor strife, they are in court over it for chissakes.

All of this is true because the NFL players association has been corrupt and weak.

It's a joke.
 
Is the league more likely to have CBA issues and risk work stoppage if one side is creating a way to criticize the other to try and get public sympathy and it ends up in court? Of course.
No. CBA issues are solely about money.
 
Who said no once cares? Obviously Woody Johnson cares.

It's just an embarrassment to certain owners. but fans aren't going to leave because a player facility is subpar
Why would an owner be embarrassed and why would that change anything. Do you really think owners say wow now that everyone knows about the free food we give the players better raise the quality?
Or that their concern about facilities isn’t about football, but whether people know how they are rated in a survey done by people trying to make them look bad?
 
The owners who supported this (from what I heard from reporting): Woody Johnson, Bidwell, Mike Brown, Jerrah and...Bob Kraft.
 
No. CBA issues are solely about money.
Money plays a big role - but you might remember that the number of padded practices was an issue they tweeked during a contract dispute. Just one example...
 
Money plays a big role - but you might remember that the number of padded practices was an issue they tweeked during a contract dispute. Just one example...
Everything is in the table.
Practice, number of games, roster size, practice squad, franchise tags, pension and health benefits, facilities, educational matter like the rookie symposium, etc. Basically every facet of the employer/employee relationship is on the table.
 
Money plays a big role - but you might remember that the number of padded practices was an issue they tweeked during a contract dispute. Just one example...
Sorry, I was being too simplistic. Yes, it encompasses a lot of the procedures and things like that. But ultimately, these decisions come down to money one way or another. In your example, the owners gave up the padded practices to increase the revenue of the league through an extra game and expanded playoffs. It all goes back to money.

What it doesn't go back to is how anonymous players filled out a survey about the Patriots workout room which then goes public.
 
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Do you have any evidence that the NFLPA negotiated issues in the surveys, were unhappy and then release them as a later resort?
I’m not aware if any such negotiation. What are the “many lanes” they exhausted around survey results that failed?

The mere fact that the NFLPA has existed since 1956 is a paper trailer enough of existing negotiations, something that wasn't even recognized by the NFL until 1968, showing that it took 12 years to get the asses of the ownership to respect the players. From the get-go, this partnership was marqueed by owners being stingy.


"The owners, for their part, were immediately antagonistic to the concept of a players' union — a position epitomized when Miller, then an assistant coach with the Cleveland Browns, was removed from the team's annual photo at the insistence of head coach and general manager Paul Brown." (Source: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/09/26/sports/sports-of-the-times-the-erased-labor-leader.html)

"Miller and other union founders were taken aback by Paul Brown's staunch view that "it was both just and necessary that management could cut, trade, bench, blackball, and own in perpetuity anyone and everyone that it wanted" (Source: Piascik, Andy (2007). The Best Show in Football: The 1946–1955 Cleveland Browns. Lanham, MD: Taylor Trade Publishing. ISBN 978-1-58979-571-6.)

The lanes have been exhausted for decades. If you want my honest opinion, the NFLPA could do so much more in the form of public pressure, and should. These are the same people that want you to pay for their stadiums, something that has been proven time and time again to not actually benefit their locales in a majority of cases.l
Of course the impact of releasing a report of players composing about the conditions under which they make their millions has dubious effectiveness. What do you think it clearly accomplishes?

You're not saying anything to prove its efficacy is dubious. There is substantial evidence of public pressure working for organized workers, the onus here is on anyone who wants to prove otherwise. These are years-long fights that are multi-pronged.

They are in a collectively bargained partnership. If whining to the public about conditions is how they think they can gain power, they are doing it wrong.

There are three things I am left to assume here: you've not engaged in long union struggles, or if you did, you weren't really participating with your co-workers. Or, you just happen to have an employer that did the responsible thing and fairly bargain with you. If it's the last part, that's the difference here: the owners of the NFL have rarely - if ever - acted in good faith to their workers.
 
There is no reason for the results to be made public other than to feed the already overheated gossip machine. The actual usefulness of such a survey is not enhanced by juicing up pointless yapping.
 
There is no reason for the results to be made public other than to feed the already overheated gossip machine. The actual usefulness of such a survey is not enhanced by juicing up pointless yapping.
You don't think owners are more likely to ignore the survey results if no one knows about them?
 
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