Kraft regrets giving Belichick so much power without “checks and balances” in place.

[lancerman]

Landry coached 7 years without a playoff win and won 1 playoff game in his first 10. He ended his career with 1 playoff berth in his last 6 seasons and no playoff wins. Landry won 0 playoff games in 18 of his 29 years.

Noll missed the playoffs in 11 of his 23 years. He went 12-30 in his first 3 seasons. He went 60-67 in his last 8 seasons.

Paul Browns coaching career began when there were 8 teams and ended over 60 years ago when there were 14. He never won a championship without Otto graham

You are wrong.

So again you have to tweak the context of the discussion for your point. Let’s make this easy so you don’t get confused.

Simple questions:

1. How many winning seasons does Landry have without Staubach? Hint: it’s more than Belichick without Brady

2. How many winning seasons does Brown have without Graham? Same hint

3. How many winning seasons does Reid have without Mahomes?

4. How many winning seasons does Noll have without Bradshaw?

 

[lancerman]

I have no problem with the coaching that led to 6 SB wins causing an aging Brady to want to go somewhere else where it’s more fun. It worked for 19 years. Thats longer than it has worked anywhere for anyone.

You listed 3 coaches and they do not fit your claims.
That is ignorance.

So for posterity

1. Brady did leave because of his relationship with Bill and feeling unappreciated by him.

2. All those coaches had more success in terms of winning their star QB than Belichick, no matter how hard you try to fudge the numbers.

Lastly remember that time you said you changed accounts because you lost your password and everyone knew this from the start, only this image below proves you were lying about who you were and that entire story was bs?



Please tell me why I should view a known liar and deceiver as a credible actor here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Reid, Landry, Noll, Brown just off the top of my head had extended periods of time without their HOF signature QB and the results were far better than what Bill did in his 11 seasons without Brady.

It’s one thing to give Bill credit for his time here. But if he’s going to be some beyond reproach figure that the owner and others can’t point out flaws in, then let’s take an honest look at his whole resume and not just the period of success from Brady’s first and last starts with the team.

Like yeah, Bill had problems and a lot of them were covered up by Brady, he’s the reason Brady wasn’t here in the end, and he proved a lot of what Kraft said when he made highly questionable decisions that blew up on the team after he didn’t have his QB to smooth them over. There was a problem with how much power he had.

Reid didn't win a SB w/o Mahomes.
Landry needed Staubach to win a SB.
Brown needed Graham to win a championship.

Are your arguing regular seasons matter? Is Marty Schottenheimer a better coach than Bill Belichick?

Bill took over a 3-13 Browns team a made them a SB contender until Modell ****ed him.

He rebuilt NE and won a SB the next year, went 14-5 when Tom didn't play and got NE to 10-7 2 years after Tom left.

In 2022 and 2023 we can agree Bill made dumb decisions which cost him his job. Thats it.

You want to give more credit to Tom, fine. But implying Bill was a "not that great" coach is moronic.

 

[Steve102]

So again you have to tweak the context of the discussion for your point. Let’s make this easy so you don’t get confused.

Simple questions:

1. How many winning seasons does Landry have without Staubach? Hint: it’s more than Belichick without Brady

2. How many winning seasons does Brown have without Graham? Same hint

3. How many winning seasons does Reid have without Mahomes?

4. How many winning seasons does Noll have without Bradshaw?

If we define great coaches as those with multiple rings, all but one have a great QB.

Lombardi had Starr
Landry had Staubach
Noll had Bradshaw
Walsh had Montana
Johnson had Aikman
Belichick had Brady
Reid has Mahomes.
Gibbs is the only one that didn't have a marquis QB, and it can be argued the QB wasn't as important in that era as it is in the current game.

 

[lancerman]

Reid didn't win a SB w/o Mahomes.
Landry needed Staubach to win a SB.
Brown needed Graham to win a championship.

Are your arguing regular seasons matter? Is Marty Schottenheimer a better coach than Bill Belichick?

Bill took over a 3-13 Browns team a made them a SB contender until Modell ****ed him.

He rebuilt NE and won a SB the next year, went 14-5 when Tom didn't play and got NE to 10-7 2 years after Tom left.

In 2022 and 2023 we can agree Bill made dumb decisions which cost him his job. Thats it.

You want to give more credit to Tom, fine. But implying Bill was a "not that great" coach is moronic.

Belichick didn’t win a SB without Brady. There’s a huge difference between only having 3 winning seasons and 1 playoff win and what the others did.

To me this is less about credit and more about the idea that Bill’s beyond reproach because of his success with Brady. He obviously did great in that context. My point is that Kraft isn’t wrong when he questions giving Bill all that power even if Brady smoothed over the issues that arose from that while he was here and we didn’t see the biggest issues with that structure until the end

 

[lancerman]

If we define great coaches as those with multiple rings, all but one have a great QB.

Lombardi had Starr
Landry had Staubach
Noll had Bradshaw
Walsh had Montana
Johnson had Aikman
Belichick had Brady
Reid has Mahomes.
Gibbs is the only one that didn't have a marquis QB, and it can be argued the QB wasn't as important in that era as it is in the current game.

But I’m not arguing who won SB’s with their best QB’s. I’m talking about how they did without the benefit of a great HOF QB.

 

[Steve102]

But I’m not arguing who won SB’s with their best QB’s. I’m talking about how they did without the benefit of a great HOF QB.

I'm not gonna dig into the #'s but I am betting lousy. Players play. Coaches are brilliant with great QBs.

 

[Ring 6]

So again you have to tweak the context of the discussion for your point. Let’s make this easy so you don’t get confused.

Simple questions:

1. How many winning seasons does Landry have without Staubach? Hint: it’s more than Belichick without Brady

2. How many winning seasons does Brown have without Graham? Same hint

3. How many winning seasons does Reid have without Mahomes?

4. How many winning seasons does Noll have without Bradshaw?

That’s not the discussion

 

[vicspats]

I agree. No big deal - I couldn't care less. You might have missed the point of the question.

Why does a lonely old billionaire in a Bentley frequent a strip mall for consenual gratification when he might end up in a court of law? Might it make more sense to hire a sugar baby GF which is more convenient and avoids the possibility of illegal activity?

The reason to go to the strip mall is becasue it is much cheaper.

You painting a rather ominous caricature of Krafty..

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick didn’t win a SB without Brady. There’s a huge difference between only having 3 winning seasons and 1 playoff win and what the others did.

To me this is less about credit and more about the idea that Bill’s beyond reproach because of his success with Brady. He obviously did great in that context. My point is that Kraft isn’t wrong when he questions giving Bill all that power even if Brady smoothed over the issues that arose from that while he was here and we didn’t see the biggest issues with that structure until the end

Winning more SBs and having more success during your best years is a hell of a lot more important than how many wild card games you won

 

[RobertWeathers]

Belichick didn’t win a SB without Brady. There’s a huge difference between only having 3 winning seasons and 1 playoff win and what the others did.

Thats my point. Great coaches need great QBs and teams to win SBs. Great QBs need good coaches and good teams to win championships. Once the three coaches you mentioned "got their guy" they won multiple championships.

To me this is less about credit and more about the idea that Bill’s beyond reproach because of his success with Brady. He obviously did great in that context.

No one is beyond reproach. Bill got his fair share of criticism here even during the good ole days...Drafts, FAs, etc.

My point is that Kraft isn’t wrong when he questions giving Bill all that power even if Brady smoothed over the issues that arose from that while he was here and we didn’t see the biggest issues with that structure until the end

The reason why Kraft's statement is ******** is because of the timelines and the context.

In 2020 Bill deserved every ounce of autonomy for what he accomplished. In 2021 he got them back in the playoffs.

2022 Bob came out and said there needs to be more collaboration. He got it. In 2023 he said Bill better win and hes held accountable. He didn't and was gone.

What is Bob actually implying here? That he made Bill too powerful? Me thinks he regrets it and if his responsibilities were spliced, Bob would get more credit for the Dynasty. Hell, he is the one who implemented the management structure and Bill won 6 Super Bowls. Jesus.

 

[vicspats]

I have no problem with the coaching that led to 6 SB wins causing an aging Brady to want to go somewhere else where it’s more fun. It worked for 19 years. Thats longer than it has worked anywhere for anyone.

You listed 3 coaches and they do not fit your claims.
That is ignorance.

Agree. The band got too old to do anymore shows, the song is ovah. It was a hell of a ride. I do believe thou that the old way of doing things will not work anymore. These kids today with the NIL money before they even turn pro, who the hell wants to win a championship? Couldn’t imagine coaching these kids today. It’s gonna take a special coach to keep the team together in the future.

 

[vicspats]

Reid didn't win a SB w/o Mahomes.
Landry needed Staubach to win a SB.
Brown needed Graham to win a championship.

Are your arguing regular seasons matter? Is Marty Schottenheimer a better coach than Bill Belichick?

Bill took over a 3-13 Browns team a made them a SB contender until Modell ****ed him.

He rebuilt NE and won a SB the next year, went 14-5 when Tom didn't play and got NE to 10-7 2 years after Tom left.

In 2022 and 2023 we can agree Bill made dumb decisions which cost him his job. Thats it.

You want to give more credit to Tom, fine. But implying Bill was a "not that great" coach is moronic.

Excellent

 

[Ring 6]

So again you have to tweak the context of the discussion for your point. Let’s make this easy so you don’t get confused.

Simple questions:

1. How many winning seasons does Landry have without Staubach? Hint: it’s more than Belichick without Brady

2. How many winning seasons does Brown have without Graham? Same hint

3. How many winning seasons does Reid have without Mahomes?

4. How many winning seasons does Noll have without Bradshaw?

Paul Brown won zero playoff games without graham.
Chuck Noll won 2 playoff games in 10 years without Bradshaw and had a losing record.

 

[lancerman]

That’s not the discussion

No it’s literally the question I asked. Stop lying like this

 

[lancerman]

Paul Brown won zero playoff games without graham.
Chuck Noll won 2 playoff games in 10 years without Bradshaw and had a losing record.

You didn’t answer any of those questions. Weird.

Anyways

 

[Steve102]

What is Bob actually implying here? That he made Bill too powerful? Me thinks he regrets it and if his responsibilities were spliced, Bob would get more credit for the Dynasty. Hell, he is the one who implemented the management structure and Bill won 6 Super Bowls. Jesus.

I think Bob is regretting one decision, the choice between Bill and Tom at the end. All this other chit is just noise because he had to let Tommy go. Loves Tommy, doesn't love Bill. It's dumb. Together they made the man billions with a capital B.

 

[lancerman]

Thats my point. Great coaches need great QBs and teams to win SBs. Great QBs need good coaches and good teams to win championships. Once the three coaches you mentioned "got their guy" they won multiple championships.

No one is beyond reproach. Bill got his fair share of criticism here even during the good ole days...Drafts, FAs, etc.

The reason why Kraft's statement is ******** is because of the timelines and the context.

In 2020 Bill deserved every ounce of autonomy for what he accomplished. In 2021 he got them back in the playoffs.

2022 Bob came out and said there needs to be more collaboration. He got it. In 2023 he said Bill better win and hes held accountable. He didn't and was gone.

What is Bob actually implying here? That he made Bill too powerful? Me thinks he regrets it and if his responsibilities were spliced, Bob would get more credit for the Dynasty. Hell, he is the one who implemented the management structure and Bill won 6 Super Bowls. Jesus.

That’s not how I view it at all. Hes implying that Bill had too much power and it was okay for a longtime when Brady was here, then Bill started using that power to push Brady out and the cracks started to show. It started with Gronk getting fed up and leaving. Then Brady left. 2017 clearly left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths because Bill made a personal decision in that Super Bowl according to Kraft and others.

Then once Brady and Gronk were gone, they hoped it wouldn’t matter because Bill was so great. They didn’t expect he would go into the season with Stidham and then scramble for Cam.

They didn’t expect him to almost lose Mayo because he wouldn’t name him DC because it would undermine his son.

They didn’t expect him to show his ass so bad on the Patricia hire.

They didn’t expect them to ever collapse like last year.

Basically Bill had full control and was allowed to make a lot of bad moves that led to all the safety nets leaving and the ultimate decline of the franchise and by the time it became too much, it was impossible to pull that away from him without firing him. He’s said as much before

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think Bob is regretting one decision, the choice between Bill and Tom at the end. All this other chit is just noise because he had to let Tommy go. Loves Tommy, doesn't love Bill. It's dumb. Together they made the man billions with a capital B.

That might be the "checks and balances,"

 

[Steve102]

That might be the "checks and balances,"

Like he should have "checked" the mirror to see if he could "balance" the decision of Tom leaving.