Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[XLIX]

Why don't you hedge a little more while you're at it? Just in case.

I am not hedging anything. You seem to think that the fact that Kraft wasn't arrested means the entire thing was botched and will get thrown out of court. You see that as some sort of smoking gun which breaks the case wide open for Kraft.

I am schooling you on a wide variety of reasons why Kraft would be pulled over, ID'ed but not arrested. No need to get so pissy. It's not my fault you don't have the first clue what you are talking about.

What Kraft did was a low-level misdemeanor. You often don't get arrested for low-level misdemeanors. You get things like a ticket or a summons.

 

[maust]

PS don't understimate what your dog might know, lol.

There's a reason man's best friend can't talk but this dog did not know me during my less halcyon days

 

[Antdawg]

I am not hedging anything. You seem to think that the fact that Kraft wasn't arrested means the entire thing was botched and will get thrown out of court. You see that as some sort of smoking gun which breaks the case wide open for Kraft.

I am schooling you on a wide variety of reasons why Kraft would be pulled over, ID'ed but not arrested. No need to get so pissy. It's not my fault you don't have the first clue what you are talking about.

What Kraft did was a low-level misdemeanor. You often don't get arrested for low-level misdemeanors. You get things like a ticket or a summons.

Just breathe..

 

[PatsWSB47]

This is getting stupid. We're all bloviating like we KNOW the finer points of law but let's face it we don't. We say what we think makes sense and proclaim that's what the law must be but all we're actually doing is pulling law out of our aszes.

 

[Antdawg]

This is getting stupid. We're all bloviating like we KNOW the finer points of law but let's face it we don't. We say what we think makes sense and proclaim that's what the law must be but all we're actually doing is pulling law out of our aszes.

We will just have to wait and see how it plays out, like McCourty said. But I don't think any of us should judge Kraft for fighting a charge. That's as American as apple pie and he's not accused of murder or anything.

 

[JJC]

This post brings me back to the mid-90s, where several post-high school girlfriends are angry, brooding, and disappointed with men, in general.

That is also an apt description of the Usenet patriots group about that time during the Parcells era.

 

[Ring 6]

All the more reason to make the arrest at the time of traffic stop, yet they didn't. Botched...

They didn’t have sufficient evidence for an arrest and there was absolutely no need to arrest him on the spot. They could find him whenever they chose to.
I believe that in fact he was never “arrested” any way but cited and charged. There is no need to rush to do that.

 

[Ring 6]

They had the same evidence then (a video) as they do now and he's being charged.

You think. There is no proof that they were viewing the video in real time and every reason to believe that is unrealistic

 

[Ring 6]

This is getting stupid. We're all bloviating like we KNOW the finer points of law but let's face it we don't. We say what we think makes sense and proclaim that's what the law must be but all we're actually doing is pulling law out of our aszes.

Feel free to stop bloviating then.

 

[Antdawg]

They didn’t have sufficient evidence for an arrest and there was absolutely no need to arrest him on the spot. They could find him whenever they chose to.
I believe that in fact he was never “arrested” any way but cited and charged. There is no need to rush to do that.

Thanks for the level-headed reply, but if you're correct that they hadn't seen the video live, then that takes us to the idea that they simply pulled Kraft over because they saw him leaving the spa and him merely leaving a legally operating business is not sufficient probable cause to be pulled over. As someone else mentioned, it would be like a cop pulling someone over just because they left a bar. I think that's the point people are trying to make here.

So based on this, the prosecutor may be up sh*t creek, because they're reduced to proving that was Kraft on the surveillance video if the judge doesn't allow for the traffic stop ID to be utilized.

 

[XLIX]

Thanks for the level-headed reply, but if you're correct that they hadn't seen the video live, then that takes us to the idea that they simply pulled Kraft over because they saw him leaving the spa and him merely leaving a legally operating business is not sufficient probable cause to be pulled over. As someone else mentioned, it would be like a cop pulling someone over just because they left a bar. I think that's the point people are trying to make here.

So based on this, the prosecutor may be up sh*t creek, because they're reduced to proving that was Kraft on the surveillance video if the judge doesn't allow for the traffic stop ID to be utilized.

Why don't you hedge a little more while you're at it? Just in case.

 

[Boston Boxer]

Now is not the time or place to quote someone named "Jack" and "Handey"!

oh, its the perfect time to quote him lol.

 

[Triumph]

Kraft is the victim here.

All he wanted was a massage and not hand relief.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Let's assume that Kraft's lawyers get the case thrown out. Let's also make a bigger assumption that Goodell does not punish him.

I would be very curious to know how people will feel about Kraft moving forward.

A. Opinion not changed, he was not found guilty of anything illegal, No big deal. He saved the Patriots for NE and brought 6 super bowl championships, cut the guy some slack

B. Terrible judgment, embarassing for organization, arrogance on display, Have less respect for him but he should stay as CEO and start to transition to Jonathan

C. Pervert, Immoral, unethical, guilty as hell, got off on technicality, evidence of a deep character flaw, as CEO of an important company he has to be held to a high standard...time for him to step aside ASAP

D. Since Myra died he has not seemd right, get him a medical and psychiatric check up, reserve judgment till then

I choose B

E: Bad judgement and WTF Bob why you being a cheap prick.

 

[Triumph]

 

[Triumph]

Maybe Kraft paper company is all a clever ruse and Kraft really made his millions as a Pimp.

 

[Kontradiction]

Maybe Kraft paper company is all a clever ruse and Kraft really made his millions as a Pimp.

Think about how much more he’d be worth if he didn’t get all of those $59 handies.

 

[IcyPatriot]

.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

So based on this, the prosecutor may be up sh*t creek, because they're reduced to proving that was Kraft on the surveillance video if the judge doesn't allow for the traffic stop ID to be utilized.

Not really and it won't be that hard to prove it was him. He was seen accepting ( first the Hunt trophy) and the Lombardi trophy by 110 million people and is one of the most recognizable owners in the NFL along w Jerry Jones..... Even if they throw out the traffic stop ( and don't allow that identification, "fruit of poisonous tree") the identification of Kraft himself is allowed if the prosecutors can prove that they would have identified him by other means.
In this case, the surveillance tape. In a room full of cops, one of them watching it, wouldn't have recognized Bob Kraft????
Traffic stop is a red herring and not likely to amount to anything............

 

[Antdawg]

Not really and it won't be that hard to prove it was him. He was seen accepting ( first the Hunt trophy) and the Lombardi trophy by 110 million people and is one of the most recognizable owners in the NFL along w Jerry Jones..... Even if they throw out the traffic stop ( and don't allow that identification, "fruit of poisonous tree") the identification of Kraft himself is allowed if the prosecutors can prove that they would have identified him by other means.
In this case, the surveillance tape. In a room full of cops, one of them watching it, wouldn't have recognized Bob Kraft????
Traffic stop is a red herring and not likely to amount to anything............

You can't just look at a perp on tape and say "that is Bob Kraft" with 100% certainty. They're going to need more than that, hence the traffic stop and ID check to begin with.