Kraft admits he sold the team out

[Ring 6]

Doesn't matter to me. I'm not into futile gestures. Brady did it legally, won and still got robbed in a very questionable manner. Brady also gave in eventually and won a Super Bowl.

You only call it futile because that’s the only way to defend bendover bob.
Not trying is inexcusable.

But here’s a question.
If it’s futile why do the wells report in context? Isn’t that even more futile, because he didn’t use it for anything.
Why not just present it at your appeal? The effort is expended either way.

 

[RayClay]

He also has the power TO step down as arbitrator, a power he HAS exercised.
Roger, Wells got it wrong and I will put on a very strong defense. Given our relationship and my confidence that your guy got it wrong, I request you to step down and let Harold Henderson hear this one.


Your only argument is there was a conspiracy theory so you think challenging the findings would be a waste of time. 1st and 4th, 1 million dollars, and Tom Brady’s reputation is worth the time. Perhaps he should have cancelled some of his vacations.

NFLPA went the official route and he wouldn't step down. Kraft could have raised a stink is all, which you say would satisfy you. Doesn't matter to me. 2 out of 3 Super Bowls was very satisfying.

Challenging what findings? The Wells report was a farce and Goodell ordered it. You think, for some reason, he would turn honest because Kraft yelled at him and made an appeal that Goodell was under no compulsion to respect or to recuse himself. If that makes you happy to think that

 

[Ring 6]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxz

Yes....
If it wasn't for TB and BB, I would have been done a few years ago.

I don't like the current philosophy of the league, in general.
I am most certainly in the group of , "F' the league, but support the Pats".
IMO.
It's a very difficult position to be in.

Who says the Pats wont be good when TB and BB are gone?
But they are the ones I saw getting abused by the "system".

It's a very difficult situation for me. Pride or complacency?

It's not about Kraft, it's about the league becoming the WWF.

You choose what you like. But don't scrutinize my decisions.

TB and BB are the last, of the few with " Integrity" as I view it. If you see that as being "Band wagon", fine.

If you enjoy football why would you let them take it away from you.
Do you really enjoy the game less because the league has a douchebag commissioner? It is meaningless to me, other than the rule changes that are turning it into 2 hand touch for or reasons.

 

[RayClay]

You only call it futile because that’s the only way to defend bendover bob.
Not trying is inexcusable.

But here’s a question.
If it’s futile why do the wells report in context? Isn’t that even more futile, because he didn’t use it for anything.
Why not just present it at your appeal? The effort is expended either way.

Because he was trying to win public opinion because as an NFL owner he had no leverage to do anything else. That's why.

He should have tried something that lawyers said had no hope. That's your opinion.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Brady is a member of the union that is the enemy of ownership and the commissioner.
Kraft is one of the commissioners bosses.
The idea that goodell is the power and kraft is the subordinate who should fear him is mind boggling.

He doesn't fear Goodell.
He is abiding by the contract that he agreed to.... To "Go along with the majority rule".
He did that and got ****ED!!!!.
Luckily we are all beneficiaries of a very smart coach and QB.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can't answer for S/B/R, but I can answer for myself

If you enjoy football why would you let them take it away from you.

Because they've made it less enjoyable. They took away 4 games of Brady. I'll be walking away from X years of a game I barely care about at this point.

Do you really enjoy the game less because the league has a douchebag commissioner?

Yes

It is meaningless to me, other than the rule changes that are turning it into 2 hand touch for or reasons.

Then it's not meaningless to you. You simply haven't hit your limit yet.

 

[Ring 6]

NFLPA went the official route and he wouldn't step down. Kraft could have raised a stink is all, which you say would satisfy you. Doesn't matter to me. 2 out of 3 Super Bowls was very satisfying.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand? The owners enemy is the nflpa. A request from the nflpa that gives them more power will NEVER be accepted. A reasonable request from one of your bosses is at the kraft considered deeply.

Challenging what findings? The Wells report was a farce and Goodell ordered it.

Goodell didn’t conduct it or write it. He accepted it as fact. The only man who could challenge it chose not to.

Lets try a different way. Goodell decides based upon the wells report that Robert Kraft is suspended from the league for 10 years.
Are you still saying he shouldn’t fight because it’s a waste of time?

You think, for some reason, he would turn honest because Kraft yelled at him and made an appeal that Goodell was under no compulsion to respect or to recuse himself. If that makes you happy to think that

I’m saying we don’t know because he didnt try.
Are you honestly trying to say that there is no reason to fight because you think you know what would have happened? That is moronic.

 

[Ring 6]

Because they've made it less enjoyable. They took away 4 games of Brady. I'll be walking away from X years of a game I barely care about at this point.

To me it’s still the game and that stuff may frustrate me but I still want football. I get that you feel differently.

Yes

We differ

Then it's not meaningless to you. You simply haven't hit your limit yet.

Perhaps not meaningless but my point is for me the only things that would lead me to not care about football are things that change the product on the field.

Again, we differ.

My stance is I won’t lesbe in retribution of brady having 4 games stolen from him because then I only lose twice.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

If you enjoy football why would you let them take it away from you.
Do you really enjoy the game less because the league has a douchebag commissioner? It is meaningless to me, other than the rule changes that are turning it into 2 hand touch for or reasons.

YES!!. I really do!!!
I enjoy it less. Immensely.

And I guarantee 99.9 percent of those polled would agree.

This isn't about fan loyalty, it's about the league F'ing it up.

If you don't believe that, you're are in denial. It's happening.

 

[PrairiePat]

Imagine if Bob Kraft were a Supreme Court justice; he'd go along with the majority opinion each case 'for the good of the Court'.

 

[Observer]

I will stop watching once B.B. retires not because of corruption and whatnot but because all the teams suck. It’s a cesspool of mediocrity where all teams aside from the Pats are simply lucky from time to time.

 

[RayClay]

Why is this so difficult for you to understand? The owners enemy is the nflpa. A request from the nflpa that gives them more power will NEVER be accepted. A reasonable request from one of your bosses is at the kraft considered deeply.



Goodell didn’t conduct it or write it. He accepted it as fact. The only man who could challenge it chose not to.

Lets try a different way. Goodell decides based upon the wells report that Robert Kraft is suspended from the league for 10 years.
Are you still saying he shouldn’t fight because it’s a waste of time?



I’m saying we don’t know because he didnt try.
Are you honestly trying to say that there is no reason to fight because you think you know what would have happened? That is moronic.

Goodell commissioned the Wells report. Your opinion is that Kraft should have appealed and made a show of trying. That's fine, I disagree.

If Kraft was kicked out 10 years he probably would have sued them on anti-trust grounds which is a legal option. I don't think he was prepared, or wanted to risk breaking up the league over this and, considering Brady went to court, had a good chance at "winning."

I agree wit you he could have made a show of opposing it, we just disagree on the chances of success and the importance of the gesture.

 

[Ring 6]

YES!!. I really do!!!
I enjoy it less. Immensely.

And I guarantee 99.9 percent of those polled would agree.

This isn't about fan loyalty, it's about the league F'ing it up.

If you don't believe that, you're are in denial. It's happening.

I’m in denial if I don’t hate football because you do?

It’s ludicrous to say 99.9% of people like football less because they care about front office shenanigans.
Hell not even a majority of patriots fans feel that way and at least 28 fan bases see nothing wrong with the league/ owners/ front office.

That doesn’t mean you have to feel any way. I was just asking because I was surprised.

 

[Deus Irae]

To me it’s still the game and that stuff may frustrate me but I still want football. I get that you feel differently.

When the Commissioner can just make **** up at random, and punish people as he sees fit, it's not really football anymore. It's just WWE on a field.

Perhaps not meaningless but my point is for me the only things that would lead me to not care about football are things that change the product on the field.

Idiotic suspensions change the product on the field, Andy.

Brady
Elliot
Gordon
etc...

When those guys are suspended when they shouldn't be, the product on the field is changed, and not for the better.

My stance is I won’t lesbe in retribution of brady having 4 games stolen from him because then I only lose twice.

I'm basically not watching any NFL games that don't involve the Patriots. I've not lost a thing in the process, since I didn't like the games anymore. What I've done is regained a boatload of hours of my life.

 

[RayClay]

Why is this so difficult for you to understand? The owners enemy is the nflpa. A request from the nflpa that gives them more power will NEVER be accepted. A reasonable request from one of your bosses is at the kraft considered deeply.



Goodell didn’t conduct it or write it. He accepted it as fact. The only man who could challenge it chose not to.

Lets try a different way. Goodell decides based upon the wells report that Robert Kraft is suspended from the league for 10 years.
Are you still saying he shouldn’t fight because it’s a waste of time?



I’m saying we don’t know because he didnt try.
Are you honestly trying to say that there is no reason to fight because you think you know what would have happened? That is moronic.

By the way, I didn't jump in the grand canyon. I don't know if I'd get hurt if I did, but I still didn't. Bad analogy, but also a bad argument. There was plenty of evidence what would happen to an appeal an I listed much. He proved he wouldn't step down, he should never arbitrate his own decisions. The power of the owners to reverse a disciline decision is in the constitution. And the masde to order report was a farce, yet he levied all those penalties. He could have rescinded them himself, he didn't need to wait for an appeal.

 

[Ring 6]

Goodell commissioned the Wells report. Your opinion is that Kraft should have appealed and made a show of trying. That's fine, I disagree.

No. My position is kraft should have fought and tried to overturn the wells report.
You keep acting like goodell is stuck to it because he requested it. Just not true but again your only argument is to make things up and pretend they are a fact.

If Kraft was kicked out 10 years he probably would have sued them on anti-trust grounds which is a legal option. I don't think he was prepared, or wanted to risk breaking up the league over this and, considering Brady went to court, had a good chance at "winning."

Nope. First he would have appealed. At least we now agree that I’d he felt the penalties were serious he would have acted.

I agree wit you he could have made a show of opposing it, we just disagree on the chances of success and the importance of the gesture.

It really doesn’t matter what you think the chances are. He had an obligation to fight for his franchise. He chose making the other owners happy. He admits that in his own words.
The only way you have an argument is by making up a pretend argument that an appeal has no chance. That is far from a fact.

 

[Ring 6]

When the Commissioner can just make **** up and random, and punish people as he sees fit, it's not really football anymore. It's just WWE on a field.



Idiotic suspensions change the product on the field, Andy.

Brady
Elliot
Gordon
etc...

When those guys are suspended when they shouldn't be, the product on the field is changed, and not for the better.



I'm basically not watching any NFL games that don't involve the Patriots. I've not lost a thing in the process, since I didn't like the games anymore. What I've done is regained a boatload of hours of my life.

I understand that is your position.
Mine is different.
Neither are right or wrong, better or worse.

 

[Ring 6]

By the way, I didn't jump in the grand canyon. I don't know if I'd get hurt if I did, but I still didn't. Bad analogy, but also a bad argument.

Stupid analogy because the laws of science, physiology and nature prove you would have gotten hurt, and there is no benefit to jumping in the Grand Canyon.

“He had no chance” is only a self-serving statement that you made up bevause you have no argument if you don’t.

There was plenty of evidence what would happen to an appeal an I listed much.

Actually there is ZERO

He proved he wouldn't step down, he should never arbitrate his own decisions.

He most certainly did not prove this. He pried he wouldn’t step down AGAINST THE NFLPA AND BRADY.
That is entirely different than in an appeal by an owner.
He also has stepped down before so what he has proven is that he will under the right circumstances.

The power of the owners to reverse a disciline decision is in the constitution.

Why would the owners reverse a decision that kraft wouldn’t challenge? Why would the owners reverse a decision that kraft OPENLY ABD IMMEDIATELY ACCEPTED?
Why would the owners reverse a decision when NO INE DISPUTED THR WELLS REPORT?

And the masde to order report was a farce, yet he levied all those penalties.

He accepted Wells findings because he hired him to investigate.

He could have rescinded them himself, he didn't need to wait for an appeal.

Why would he rescind what Bob Kraft openly accepted WITHOUT ANY REBUTTAL?
You exoect goodell to say I know the patriots accepted the penalties given based in the wells report but I think I’m going to go back and say I don’t believe the wells report even though no one has told me a single reason that it’s wrong.

Do you often see judges put on defenses in trial when the defense attorney says, nah I’ll rest?

 

[RayClay]

Stupid analogy because the laws of science, physiology and nature prove you would have gotten hurt, and there is no benefit to jumping in the Grand Canyon.

“He had no chance” is only a self-serving statement that you made up bevause you have no argument if you don’t.




Actually there is ZERO



He most certainly did not prove this. He pried he wouldn’t step down AGAINST THE NFLPA AND BRADY.
That is entirely different than in an appeal by an owner.
He also has stepped down before so what he has proven is that he will under the right circumstances.




Why would the owners reverse a decision that kraft wouldn’t challenge? Why would the owners reverse a decision that kraft OPENLY ABD IMMEDIATELY ACCEPTED?
Why would the owners reverse a decision when NO INE DISPUTED THR WELLS REPORT?



He accepted Wells findings because he hired him to investigate.


Why would he rescind what Bob Kraft openly accepted WITHOUT ANY REBUTTAL?
You exoect goodell to say I know the patriots accepted the penalties given based in the wells report but I think I’m going to go back and say I don’t believe the wells report even though no one has told me a single reason that it’s wrong.

Do you often see judges put on defenses in trial when the defense attorney says, nah I’ll rest?

Pretty obvious we disagree about what would or could have happened. I strongly disagree the Wells report was even a "report." If it was it was reason to drop everything. It was a custom made predetermined frame and not a good one at that.

 

[Ring 6]

He doesn't fear Goodell.
He is abiding by the contract that he agreed to.... To "Go along with the majority rule".
He did that and got ****ED!!!!.
Luckily we are all beneficiaries of a very smart coach and QB.

He did not sign a contract that he had to do what is best for the other owners at the expense of his own team.
He must certainly did not sign a contract that said he forfeited the right to appeal unjust penalties for offenses that were not actually committed.
He CHOSE to do that.