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Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing


The Nkeal harry draft is just inexcusable. And is kind of the nail in a long line of reasons brady left. Not saying he left because of harry but bill threw harry, brown, sanu, gordon against the wall and they all splattered. Imagine we get AJ brown and immediately our offense is better.

On the other hand, The draft is kind of a crapshoot. There's really no way you can tell how these kids going up against guys who will be an accountant in a year or two will do against other NFL players.

you can project, but until they are on that field you never know. I guarantee at least one of these QBs everyone is pumping up this year will be a bust and at least one will be average.

its why I think Bill is so good at bringing in guys from other teams and making them work. And not as good with the draft. You already know a guy like Welker or Van noy is an NFL caliber player. Now you just figure out what they do well and put them in that position. With the draft you have that added step of "can this kid even play in the nfl"
 
Been saying it for years.... BB is the GOAT of coaches, but mediocre at best as a GM.
Honest question: If you think BB is a mediocre GM, which GM’s do you think are better than him? I’d like to see a list, and it must be plentiful if BB is only mediocre at best.
 
The Nkeal harry draft is just inexcusable. And is kind of the nail in a long line of reasons brady left. Not saying he left because of harry but bill threw harry, brown, sanu, gordon against the wall and they all splattered. Imagine we get AJ brown and immediately our offense is better.

On the other hand, The draft is kind of a crapshoot. There's really no way you can tell how these kids going up against guys who will be an accountant in a year or two will do against other NFL players.
Given paragraph 2 (and 3), how can your first sentence make sense?

How can a bad roll of the dice (a crapshoot, as you say) be "inexcusable"?
 
Given paragraph 2 (and 3), how can your first sentence make sense?

How can a bad roll of the dice (a crapshoot, as you say) be "inexcusable"?

Well I more mean not listening to your scouts yelling red flags about the guy. If that is true. If the guy isn't getting open in college he's not gonna get open against nfl cornerbacks.

Ultimately it is a crap shoot though. If you redid the draft every year it would look very different.
 
Well I more mean not listening to your scouts yelling red flags about the guy. If that is true. If the guy isn't getting open in college he's not gonna get open against nfl cornerbacks.

Ultimately it is a crap shoot though. If you redid the draft every year it would look very different.
Big "if," considering that harry was constantly in the top 5, often top 3, on most draft boards.
 
The Jones/Hightower draft was one of their best drafts. The Collins pick was excellent as well.
Simms on the times he saw Caserio/scouts in disagreement with Bill and left the draft room shaking their heads. It was during the 2012 and 2013 drafts where they thought Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins were both over drafted. I'm surprised with Jones as he was always in the conversation as a mid to late first rounder. I didn't know much about Jamie Collins and did seem more like one of those "came out nowhere" pick. But I'm surprised he didn't bring up the board's favorite Aaron Dobson.

Chris Simms has had a hair across his ass about the Patriots for years.
 
Honest question: If you think BB is a mediocre GM, which GM’s do you think are better than him? I’d like to see a list, and it must be plentiful if BB is only mediocre at best.
I have answered this in the past but you have to factor in giving the other GMs Brady for 20 years, the GOAT QB on discount deals. If you do that then I would put:
Polian
Loomis
Wolf
Beathard
Davis

If picking from current GMs, I think Ballard, Veach, Loomis, Colbert would have had tremendous success over 20 years with Brady as their QB.
 
Well I more mean not listening to your scouts yelling red flags about the guy. If that is true. If the guy isn't getting open in college he's not gonna get open against nfl cornerbacks.

Ultimately it is a crap shoot though. If you redid the draft every year it would look very different.

So Belichick works for the scouts now? How many times did Belichick overrule scouts? Success rate?

The GOAT football guy now has to by decree act unconditionally based on the whims of "scouts"?

This is fact:

The guy has 20 years of drafting history.

It's written in stone that even the best will draft players that bust and not work out.

The draft is but one avenue of player acquisition.


The problem:

After 20 years of player acquisition that produced 18 division titles, 9 AFC titles, and 6 Super Bowls, you and every other dumbazz on this board can only fixate on one draft pick with minor diversions to Carlos Dunlap and Chad Jackson both a generation ago.

Why is that?

Well, it's standard that the dumbazz believes something and then without thought or rationale will fixate on that to the exclusion of the preponderance of activity.

Why do you think that article came out?

Somebody (my guess is Winker Bob) reads patsfans and sees the same imbeciles posting very minor variations of the same thing time after time and then throws stories like this as red meat knowing the dumbazzes will never, ever resist.

Take some time and try to actually think about it.
 
I have answered this in the past but you have to factor in giving the other GMs Brady for 20 years, the GOAT QB on discount deals. If you do that then I would put:
Polian
Loomis
Wolf
Beathard
Davis

If picking from current GMs, I think Ballard, Veach, Loomis, Colbert would have had tremendous success over 20 years with Brady as their QB.

People don't remember your posts because this list is as dumb back then as it is today. It's timeless!!!

Hell, this is so bad, I hope (for sanity reasons) most try to actively forget.

Check this out:

Polian had Manning
Loomis had Brees
Wolf had Favre

....and he actually posts this about "GOAT' QB's!!!
 
I have answered this in the past but you have to factor in giving the other GMs Brady for 20 years, the GOAT QB on discount deals. If you do that then I would put:
Polian
Loomis
Wolf
Beathard
Davis

If picking from current GMs, I think Ballard, Veach, Loomis, Colbert would have had tremendous success over 20 years with Brady as their QB.
Edit - Sorry I didn’t realize you weren’t the original poster I responded to, so I interpreted it wrong. Your stance is not that he’s mediocre but that he’s a bit overrated, which I still don’t agree with. But let’s use that for the premise of my post below.

That’s kind of an unfair argument when you consider Belichick was who found Brady and convinced him to play at a discount in the first place. Guys like Polian, Beathard, and Davis did their best work before free agency was a thing. Belichick never had that benefit, he had to work around free agency, a system designed to not have 20 years of success.

Loomis had the Saints in salary cap hell, which would’ve been worse if not for Brees restructuring his contract and retiring. Also much like the Patriots, the Saints had their own HOF QB in Brees, one who also gave them team-friendly deals ($10m in 2013, $11m in 2014, $13m in 2017, all less than what Brady was making those years). Veach has swung and missed on all his wide receiver free agency targets so far, overpaid for Frank Clark, and inherited Kelce and Hill from John Dorsey. Ballard hasn’t shown anything other than he can’t seem to keep his QB’s around. Colbert is fantastic, one of the best today, but even he’s had his fair share of stinkers in the draft in recent memory (Jarvis Jones, Jason Worilds, Artie Burns, etc.)

Even disregarding all that, that’s not a lot of names. Polian, Wolf, Beathard, and Davis are all Hall of Famers, and you only listed four active GM’s. If Belichick was mediocre at best, wouldn’t he be in the middle of the pack?

One last thing to consider: Belichick the HC succeeds because he’s always had Belichick the GM to buy the groceries for him to cook with, and likewise Belichick the GM benefits from Belichick’s coaching, an advantage none of the other GM’s you listed have. If we need to give the other GM’s Brady for this exercise, why stop there? We can give them Belichick the HC as well.

I’m just having a hard time believing the man responsible for drafting these guys is “mediocre at best”:

Tom Brady
Richard Seymour
Matt Light
Daniel Graham
Deion Branch
Ty Warren
Asante Samuel
Dan Koppen
Vince Wilfork
Logan Mankins
Matt Cassel
Stephen Gostkowski
Jerod Mayo
Matthew Slater
Patrick Chung
Sebastian Vollmer
Julian Edelman
Devin McCourty
Rob Gronkowski
Brandon Spikes
Nate Solder
Shane Vereen
Marcus Cannon
Chandler Jones
Donta’ Hightower
Jamie Collins
Logan Ryan
Duron Harmon
Jimmy Garoppolo
James White
Malcom Brown
Trey Flowers
Shaq Mason
Joe Thuney
Damien Harris
Jake Bailey
Michael Onwenu


He brought in undrafted guys who became big contributors like Stephen Neal, Malcolm Butler, JC Jackson, David Andrews, Jonathan Jones, Adam Butler, etc., or the trades for Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Wes Welker. The Pats don’t even compete in 2001 if not for the roster overhaul he did that offseason (Vrabel, Antowain Smith, Phifer, Cox, Patten, etc.) Belichick was responsible for all that.

He’s not going to hit on everything. No GM does. But no GM can match his resume of success, especially in the free agency era, and not even Brady would have 6 rings with the same team if his GM was merely mediocre at his job. All we ever hear from Packers fans is how Aaron Rodgers would have more rings if he had a better team around him, even though Ted Thompson, a highly regarded GM of his time, was running that ship for most of Rodgers’ career. If Belichick is mediocre then so is everyone else.
 
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The Jones/Hightower draft was one of their best drafts. The Collins pick was excellent as well.

Chris Simms has had a hair across his ass about the Patriots for years.
Simms actually admits that Bill was right about both Collins and Jones (and his scouts were wrong to say that both were drafted too early.
 
This part stood out to me:

“Belichick ignored that input and instead took Harry, based on Harry’s performance during a non-workout visit to the team and Belichick’s relationship with Harry’s college coach, Todd Graham.

They apparently share the same attorney, and BB had a lot of praise for him back at media day for the Super Bowl six years ago.
So there it is. It wasn't the scouts, Caserio or Josh who made one of the worst 1st round Pats' picks evah, it was Bill's golfing buddy. That kind of goes against the "Bill values the opinions of his hired assistants" theory.
 
So there it is. It wasn't the scouts, Caserio or Josh who made one of the worst 1st round Pats' picks evah, it was Bill's golfing buddy. That kind of goes against the "Bill values the opinions of his hired assistants" theory.

One example invalidates potentially every other of the probably thousands of decisions we don't hear about?
 
People don't remember your posts because this list is as dumb back then as it is today. It's timeless!!!

Hell, this is so bad, I hope (for sanity reasons) most try to actively forget.

Check this out:

Polian had Manning
Loomis had Brees
Wolf had Favre

....and he actually posts this about "GOAT' QB's!!!
All of those QBs took every last dime on their contracts unlike the GOAT who took less than market value. And none of them least of all Brees and Favre are remotely in Brady's zip code in terms of greatness/clutch play.
 
That’s kind of an unfair argument when you consider Belichick was who found Brady and convinced him to play at a discount in the first place. Guys like Polian, Beathard, and Davis did their best work before free agency was a thing. Belichick never had that benefit, he had to work around free agency, a system designed to not have 20 years of success.

Loomis had the Saints in salary cap hell, which would’ve been worse if not for Brees restructuring his contract and retiring. Also much like the Patriots, the Saints had their own HOF QB in Brees, one who also gave them team-friendly deals ($10m in 2013, $11m in 2014, $13m in 2017, all less than what Brady was making those years). Veach has swung and missed on all his wide receiver free agency targets so far, overpaid for Frank Clark, and inherited Kelce and Hill from John Dorsey. Ballard hasn’t shown anything other than he can’t seem to keep his QB’s around. Colbert is fantastic, one of the best today, but even he’s had his fair share of stinkers in the draft in recent memory (Jarvis Jones, Jason Worilds, Artie Burns, etc.)

Even disregarding all that, that’s not a lot of names. Polian, Wolf, Beathard, and Davis are all Hall of Famers, and you only listed four active GM’s. If Belichick was mediocre at best, wouldn’t he be in the middle of the pack?

One last thing to consider: Belichick the HC succeeds because he’s always had Belichick the GM to buy the groceries for him to cook with, and likewise Belichick the GM benefits from Belichick’s coaching, an advantage none of the other GM’s you listed have. If we need to give the other GM’s Brady for this exercise, why stop there? We can give them Belichick the HC as well.

I’m just having a hard time believing the man responsible for drafting these guys is “mediocre at best”:

Tom Brady
Richard Seymour
Matt Light
Daniel Graham
Deion Branch
Ty Warren
Asante Samuel
Dan Koppen
Vince Wilfork
Logan Mankins
Matt Cassel
Stephen Gostkowski
Jerod Mayo
Matthew Slater
Patrick Chung
Sebastian Vollmer
Julian Edelman
Devin McCourty
Rob Gronkowski
Brandon Spikes
Nate Solder
Shane Vereen
Marcus Cannon
Chandler Jones
Donta’ Hightower
Jamie Collins
Logan Ryan
Duron Harmon
Jimmy Garoppolo
James White
Malcom Brown
Trey Flowers
Shaq Mason
Joe Thuney
Damien Harris
Jake Bailey
Michael Onwenu


He brought in undrafted guys who became big contributors like Stephen Neal, Malcolm Butler, JC Jackson, David Andrews, Jonathan Jones, Adam Butler, etc., or the trades for Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Wes Welker. The Pats don’t even compete in 2001 if not for the roster overhaul he did that offseason (Vrabel, Antowain Smith, Phifer, Cox, Patten, etc.) Belichick was responsible for all that.
I would not call Belichick mediocre as a GM. That was a different poster. I do think he is overrated as a GM though and those other GMs would have had similar success if they had Brady.

It's tough to say Bill "found" Brady when he was taken in the 6th round. He does deserve credit for developing him though but the below market contracts are what is key IMO. To have the GOAT for 20 years not taking every last dime like Favre, Manning and Brees did and pretty much any other great QB is what gave Bill such a HUGE advantage as GM.
 
I have answered this in the past but you have to factor in giving the other GMs Brady for 20 years, the GOAT QB on discount deals. If you do that then I would put:
Polian
Loomis
Wolf
Beathard
Davis

If picking from current GMs, I think Ballard, Veach, Loomis, Colbert would have had tremendous success over 20 years with Brady as their QB.
Wow, Wolf, Loomis, Beathard, and Davis won more than 9 Conference Championships and 6 Lombardi’s? Did they do it individually or are you combining all of them together?
 
Wow, Wolf, Loomis, Beathard, and Davis won more than 9 Conference Championships and 6 Lombardi’s? Did they do it individually or are you combining all of them together?
Did any of them have the GOAT QB on below market contracts for 20 years?
 
All of those QBs took every last dime on their contracts unlike the GOAT who took less than market value. And none of them least of all Brees and Favre are remotely in Brady's zip code in terms of greatness/clutch play.
Damn, if only the Patriots could find the GM who drafted Brady and negotiated those deals with him? That’s the guy who should be getting all the credit, not Belichick, he just does whatever MacDaniels tells him that do.
 


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