Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones

[Tunescribe]

Apparently you don't understand. 2023 and Patricia are entirety on Belichick. So no I don't believe at all Patricia was the primarily factor. Belichick clearly was. And even with that, Mac Jones played poorly and lacked composure and toughness. Mac doesn't escape blame for his failings.

Your hysterical BB hatred has made you irrational, disdain for Mac becoming a close second. Mac's emotional wobblies toward Patricia's ineptitude are fair game for criticism, but the lion's share of his "failings" last season lie squarely at Patricia's (and Judge's feet). That you won't acknowledge this indicates how little you understand about how things work -- or in this case, why they didn't work.

Your white-knuckled grip on BB's throat prompts these wishful assumptions you conjure re. how circumstances evolved directly before and during Patricia's brief OC tenure. Of course, you easily convinced yourself Belichick CLEARLY was to blame for last season's lackluster offensive performance ("But ... but ... that evil bastard booted my Tommy!").

BB didn't coordinate the offense. If your point is the buck always stops with the head coach, that's incredibly rare insight.

And if they or anyone of them succeed for the Patriots organization you think I'm going to pout about it? No, I'll celebrate it like any Patriots fan.

While spewing negativity and disparagement every step of the way. You epitomize fair-weather "fan." Disgusting.

 

[pats_premi]

Let’s hope Herbstreit is right about Mac. Last season, it seems as if BB put too much trust in Mac‘s to lead an offense with lesser coaching and work through problems together. BB mis-judged and had his coaching and decision making questioned. Mac better perform this year because he will not have BB’s safety net.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Let’s hope Herbstreit is right about Mac. Last season, it seems as if BB put too much trust in Mac‘s to lead an offense with lesser coaching and work through problems together. BB mis-judged and had his coaching and decision making questioned. Mac better perform this year because he will not have BB’s safety net.

Yes if Mac does not rebound this year, he is probably not as good as a lot of us hoped. No excuses working in his 3rd year with BOB. Agreed.

 

[archstanton543]

Let’s hope Herbstreit is right about Mac. Last season, it seems as if BB put too much trust in Mac‘s to lead an offense with lesser coaching and work through problems together. BB mis-judged and had his coaching and decision making questioned. Mac better perform this year because he will not have BB’s safety net.

That's certainly a unique take. There's no way in hell that BB put the offense in a second year QB's hands with Matt and Judge playing a supporting role.

 

[crawhammer]

Your hysterical BB hatred has made you irrational, disdain for Mac becoming a close second. Mac's emotional wobblies toward Patricia's ineptitude are fair game for criticism, but the lion's share of his "failings" last season lie squarely at Patricia's (and Judge's feet). That you won't acknowledge this indicates how little you understand about how things work -- or in this case, why they didn't work.

Your white-knuckled grip on BB's throat prompts these wishful assumptions you conjure re. how circumstances evolved directly before and during Patricia's brief OC tenure. Of course, you easily convinced yourself Belichick CLEARLY was to blame for last season's lackluster offensive performance ("But ... but ... that evil bastard booted my Tommy!").

BB didn't coordinate the offense. If your point is the buck always stops with the head coach, that's incredibly rare insight.

Brady has nothing to do with this, so what's your point in mentioning him here? After 2019, Brady has nothing to do with the Patriots and Belichick has nothing to do with Brady's time in Tampa Bay. Their respective results are entirely independent of one another.

Otherwise you're just trying to shield Belichick from blame. All the while you're accurately ripping on Patricia for his total incompetence you disregard the person who actually (and astonishingly) believed Patricia was the best man for the job. Belichick is entirely responsible for Patricia having had the opportunity of royally ****ing things up. Was there a worse hire in the NFL last season? The past decade?

And Belichick's only an absentee when things are blowing up in the team's face offensively. What happened with the rumors of Belichick getting more involved with the struggling offense last season? Had things turned around then for sure we would have heard about how Bill saved the day with his genius. Didn't happen so I guess the IBWT company line is the rumors were unfounded. Bill just sat back with Patricia bumbling around like an incompetent fool for an entire season. Great leadership.

While spewing negativity and disparagement every step of the way. You epitomize fair-weather "fan." Disgusting.

You don't even know what a fair-weather fan is... it's a designation for a "fan" who only pays attention when the team is performing well. I'm paying attention, to the good and bad, although you wish I wasn't.

 

[crawhammer]

Fields was the worst starting passer in the league the over the last two years. The only QB with a worst 2 year EPA start to his career was JaMarcus Russell.

As a QB, Fields is an excellent runner and (so far) a lousy passer despite having the benefit of defenses to have to account for his running.

The infatuation with dual threat QB's has reached near peak insanity with the ongoing Justin Fields love, with only the continuing Trey Lance infatuation being crazier.

Coming out of college, I thought Fields would be a good QB. He has a very long way to go. Trey Lance is a joke -- he's now 3rd string on the 49'ers but folks still love him for his one great year at North Dakota State and his fit to a meme that they evidently cherish.

I hope you can recognize that Fields has shown far more potential than JaMarcus Russell ever did. Firstly, Russell had 40 carries for 175 yards and 1 TD for his entire 3-year career. Fields in only 2 seasons has 232 carries for 1563 yards (6.7 Y/A) and 10 TDs. They're totally different quarterbacks. Fields improved in every passing metric from season 1 to season 2 with a garbage supporting cast (probably the worst in the NFL). DJ Moore is a nice addition there as he'll move the other WRs into their rightful spots and they added a decent TE2 in Robert Tonyan.

The Chicago offense won't be blowing anyone away but they should be improved and I can see them possibly tripling their win total from last season (from 3 to 9) but at least getting to 6 or 7 wins. I like Fields a lot, he could be the next Lamar, who granted still has something to prove himself (despite the MVP season), but there's no denying the two are exceptional athletes and great football players (if not elite quarterbacks which necessarily includes the running).

 

[Kasmir]

I hope you can recognize that Fields has shown far more potential than JaMarcus Russell ever did. Firstly, Russell had 40 carries for 175 yards and 1 TD for his entire 3-year career. Fields in only 2 seasons has 232 carries for 1563 yards (6.7 Y/A) and 10 TDs. They're totally different quarterbacks. Fields improved in every passing metric from season 1 to season 2 with a garbage supporting cast (probably the worst in the NFL). DJ Moore is a nice addition there as he'll move the other WRs into their rightful spots and they added a decent TE2 in Robert Tonyan.

The Chicago offense won't be blowing anyone away but they should be improved and I can see them possibly tripling their win total from last season (from 3 to 9) but at least getting to 6 or 7 wins. I like Fields a lot, he could be the next Lamar, who granted still has something to prove himself (despite the MVP season), but there's no denying the two are exceptional athletes and great football players (if not elite quarterbacks which necessarily includes the running).

Nah, his passing DVOA went from 32nd (-28.4%) in 2021 to 34th (-34.5%) in 2022. His rushing certainly improved, but he was the worst passer in the league again even with the defense having to account for his rushing.

I have no idea why he is so bad a passer, I thought he was a really good QB at Ohio State.

 

[crawhammer]

Nah, his passing DVOA went from 32nd (-28.4%) in 2021 to 34th (-34.5%) in 2022.

Well, if that's his DVOA then I can't dispute it sucks.

His rushing certainly improved, but he was the worst passer in the league again even with the defense having to account for his rushing.
I have no idea why he is so bad a passer, I thought he was a really good QB at Ohio State.

His cmp% and Y/A went up slightly. INT% improved slightly too. He more than doubled his TD% and his passer rating went up by 12 points. There's no arguing he's an above average passer in the NFL right now, I get it, but he's got ultra baseline skills for both passing and running. The team around him got better in the offseason and I saw enough improvement in his overall pro game last season where I think he'll resemble more of the really good passer he was at Ohio State.

 

[Kasmir]

Well, if that's his DVOA then I can't dispute it sucks.


His cmp% and Y/A went up slightly. INT% improved slightly too. He more than doubled his TD% and his passer rating went up by 12 points. There's no arguing he's an above average passer in the NFL right now, I get it, but he's got ultra baseline skills for both passing and running. The team around him got better in the offseason and I saw enough improvement in his overall pro game last season where I think he'll resemble more of the really good passer he was at Ohio State.

I agree he is an incredible athlete and still has the potential to be a good NFL QB.

 

[Rob0729]

Nah, his passing DVOA went from 32nd (-28.4%) in 2021 to 34th (-34.5%) in 2022. His rushing certainly improved, but he was the worst passer in the league again even with the defense having to account for his rushing.

I have no idea why he is so bad a passer, I thought he was a really good QB at Ohio State.

Justin Fields may be the worst passer of any starting QB in the league. He is awful as a passer. He can’t hit the side of a barn from two feet away. He is technically a dual threat because he is a good running QB and a great athlete and he can kinda pass a football if you want to call it that. He had a couple of really good games last year that has severely overrated him.

He could still turn it around and become a decent passer. But no defense is afraid of him throwing the ball.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree he is an incredible athlete and still has the potential to be a good NFL QB.

Only if he learns how to be a be a better passer than a JuCo level QB. If he could be as accurate as Mac Jones, Fields would be an elite QB with his athleticism. And I am using Jones because he has good accuracy, but not elite accuracy.

 

[Tunescribe]

Brady has nothing to do with this, so what's your point in mentioning him here? After 2019, Brady has nothing to do with the Patriots and Belichick has nothing to do with Brady's time in Tampa Bay. Their respective results are entirely independent of one another.

Oh, please. Brady is the source of your BB derangement syndrome, from which your anti-Patriots biases extend.

Otherwise you're just trying to shield Belichick from blame.

Ridiculous. I have no interest in "shielding Belichick from blame" over anything. More derangement syndrome silliness. "He's not blaming Belichick so he must be with the IBWT crowd!"

All the while you're accurately ripping on Patricia for his total incompetence you disregard the person who actually (and astonishingly) believed Patricia was the best man for the job. Belichick is entirely responsible for Patricia having had the opportunity of royally ****ing things up. Was there a worse hire in the NFL last season? The past decade?

This is yet another example where assumptions/wishful thinking get you in trouble. You don't know he believed Patricia was the best man for the job. Perhaps Patricia was the last-minute fallback option when other choices fell through. You simply DO NOT KNOW. But don't let that get in the way of bashing bad ol' BB!

Just like earlier when you claimed that Kraft ordered BB to hire O'Brien. Asked for verification you didn't respond -- your telltale M.O. "I feel like crapping on Belichick so I'll float some conjecture and see if it sells."

And Belichick's only an absentee when things are blowing up in the team's face offensively. What happened with the rumors of Belichick getting more involved with the struggling offense last season? Had things turned around then for sure we would have heard about how Bill saved the day with his genius. Didn't happen so I guess the IBWT company line is the rumors were unfounded. Bill just sat back with Patricia bumbling around like an incompetent fool for an entire season. Great leadership.

Rumors? What bad, bad things did those "rumors" tell you about Belichick? I place little stock in rumors. But I do recall what Bill said about the inherent difficulties of retooling an offensive system after a season starts. To anyone who knows anything about the pro game that makes perfect sense (well, maybe not to you). Otherwise, I don't recall anyone ever suggesting BB was an offensive genius. You apparently believe so and (surprise!) fault him for not proving it.

You don't even know what a fair-weather fan is... it's a designation for a "fan" who only pays attention when the team is performing well.

Or who bashes the team incessantly, predicts doom and gloom, then jumps on the bandwagon when they do well. You even admit to that being your plan. That's you: a fair-weather "fan."

I'm paying attention, to the good and bad, although you wish I wasn't.

When does the "good" part start with you? For someone who demonstrates time and again such a bias-ridden lack of understanding the pro game, you have a pretty high opinion of yourself. Kinda reminds me of this guy:

 

[crawhammer]

Oh, please. Brady is the source of your BB derangement syndrome, from which your anti-Patriots biases extend.

Ridiculous. I have no interest in "shielding Belichick from blame" over anything. More derangement syndrome silliness. "He's not blaming Belichick so he must be with the IBWT crowd!"

This is yet another example where assumptions/wishful thinking get you in trouble. You don't know he believed Patricia was the best man for the job. Perhaps Patricia was the last-minute fallback option when other choices fell through. You simply DO NOT KNOW. But don't let that get in the way of bashing bad ol' BB!

Just like earlier when you claimed that Kraft ordered BB to hire O'Brien. Asked for verification you didn't respond -- your telltale M.O. "I feel like crapping on Belichick so I'll float some conjecture and see if it sells."

Rumors? What bad, bad things did those "rumors" tell you about Belichick? I place little stock in rumors. But I do recall what Bill said about the inherent difficulties of retooling an offensive system after a season starts. To anyone who knows anything about the pro game that makes perfect sense (well, maybe not to you). Otherwise, I don't recall anyone ever suggesting BB was an offensive genius. You apparently believe so and (surprise!) fault him for not proving it.

Or who bashes the team incessantly, predicts doom and gloom, then jumps on the bandwagon when they do well. You even admit to that being your plan. That's you: a fair-weather "fan."

When does the "good" part start with you? For someone who demonstrates time and again such a bias-ridden lack of understanding the pro game, you have a pretty high opinion of yourself. Kinda reminds me of this guy:

More incessant nonsense about "my ignorance" so you can avoid acknowledging one of the worst OC hirings in league history. Stupid me called it an obvious disaster from day one.

My underlying point constantly on the subject has been Belichick put Patricia in that spot so whatever blame you want to put on Patricia falls on Belichick first.

 

[jdlboot14]

Lawrence was finally looking decent last year, but I still don't think he's going to become anything special like everyone pegged him to be.
I'm so sick of the media proclaiming a "generational talent" every single draft.
Wilson and Lance are already done. Fields will get a million chances, but won't ever become a true passer.
Lawrence and Mac have a shot to establish themselves as serviceable longer term QB's, we'll see.

 

[Tunescribe]

More incessant nonsense about "my ignorance" so you can avoid acknowledging one of the worst OC hirings in league history. Stupid me called it an obvious disaster from day one.

My underlying point constantly on the subject has been Belichick put Patricia in that spot so whatever blame you want to put on Patricia falls on Belichick first.

Just calling out your wishful conjecture, angry bias and willful ignorance for what they are.

 

[Patsgofor4]

This is ridiculous. Top three most improved offense??

The Broncos ranked 32nd last season... Sean Payton is exactly the right remedy for Russell Wilson... major improvement coming.

The Jets ranked 29th with Zack Wilson & co. so expect a significant improvement with a rejuvenated Rodgers.

The Steelers ranked 26th but got some good returns from their rookie QB and WR and they added a couple of nice pieces in this year's draft. I like the direction they're heading.

That's 3 right there, plus I see all of these offenses improving: Bears (with Fields as a dark horse MVP candidate), Saints, Ravens and Browns.

The Patriots will have a hard time cracking the top 3 most improved offenses in 2023. Hopkins would help the cause though.

BRONCOS: Payton is a great coach but isn’t a miracle worker (see 2021 Saints offense). Your certainty that a “major improvement is coming” is just wishful thinking on your part. It is equally likely that Wilson’s days as an effective starting QB are over, now that he legs are seemingly shot.

JETS: Yes, they should be in the top three most improved but Rodgers is a weirdo loose cannon and if something pisses him off early on and he shuts down emotionally, it could also end of being a spectacular disaster (that is my wishful thinking).

STEELERS: The fact that you chose Pitt as an example shows how hard you had to strain yourself to find an offense that could make a bigger improvement than the Pats. You expect a major improvement on offense bc of their draft? You sure about that, sunshine? An athletic but raw LT who is more likely to struggle than dominate in year 1 and a blocking>>pass catching TE with Edelman’s knees? There is no f-ing way that they should be above the Pats on anyone’s list of “most improved offenses” prediction. The same goes for the Saints, Ravens and Browns. Nope, nope, nope.

Last but certainly not least….Fields as a potential MVP dark horse?

 

[PatsFan2]

Lawrence was finally looking decent last year, but I still don't think he's going to become anything special like everyone pegged him to be.
I'm so sick of the media proclaiming a "generational talent" every single draft.
Wilson and Lance are already done. Fields will get a million chances, but won't ever become a true passer.
Lawrence and Mac have a shot to establish themselves as serviceable longer term QB's, we'll see.

Hasn't Trey Lance problem been that he can't stay healthy?? I would hate to cast judgment on only eight games. Also Lawrence have better WR Talent with the of addition of Calvin Ridley. That said I think Mac like Lawrence need Very good/Elite Talent at the skill positions. They won't cut it with the sisters of the poor: Mac Need a WR like D-Hop nuff said!

 

[crawhammer]

Just calling out your wishful conjecture, angry bias and willful ignorance for what they are.

Yeah sure, pal.

There was an OC vacancy. Belichick could have considered multiple candidates. Belichick ultimately chose Matt Patricia (and Joe Judge) as the best available candidate(s) to lead his offense and his second year supposed franchise quarterback. The offense stunk, the quarterback regressed, pouted, lost his composure, and lacked toughness. There was no apparent constructive leadership from the quarterback, OC, or HC. Pretty much a predictable disaster all around.

Where's the "wishful conjecture, angry bias and willful ignorance" in any of that?

And regarding Patricia's dismissal and the hiring of O'Brien, you think Kraft was allowing Belichick any discretion on the situation? Particularly moving on from Patricia.

Just keep your head in the sand.

 

[Rob0729]

BRONCOS: Payton is a great coach but isn’t a miracle worker (see 2021 Saints offense). Your certainty that a “major improvement is coming” is just wishful thinking on your part. It is equally likely that Wilson’s days as an effective starting QB are over, now that he legs are seemingly shot.

JETS: Yes, they should be in the top three most improved but Rodgers is a weirdo loose cannon and if something pisses him off early on and he shuts down emotionally, it could also end of being a spectacular disaster (that is my wishful thinking).

STEELERS: The fact that you chose Pitt as an example shows how hard you had to strain yourself to find an offense that could make a bigger improvement than the Pats. You expect a major improvement on offense bc of their draft? You sure about that, sunshine? An athletic but raw LT who is more likely to struggle than dominate in year 1 and a blocking>>pass catching TE with Edelman’s knees? There is no f-ing way that they should be above the Pats on anyone’s list of “most improved offenses” prediction. The same goes for the Saints, Ravens and Browns. Nope, nope, nope.

Last but certainly not least….Fields as a potential MVP dark horse?

I do think it is funny that he does think the Broncos will make a huge jump because Sean Payton is replacing a guy who was so awful that he made Russell Wilson look like a scrub. Yet he thinks the Jets will be most improved when their OC is now the guy who was so awful that he made Russell Wilson look like a scrub last year.

And sure some people expect Kenny Pickett should have a big year two bounce, but they expected that from Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, and Justin Fields. That is far from a guarantee. He could regress for all we know now that teams have enough tape and an entire offseason to study him and make a book on him. I don't get the Pickett love to begin with. He was ok for a rookie with a few flashes, but he still only got 2404 yards, 7 TDs, and 9 INTs in 13 games and has yet to throw for more than one TD in any one game.

 

[PatsFan2]

Justin Fields may be the worst passer of any starting QB in the league. He is awful as a passer. He can’t hit the side of a barn from two feet away. He is technically a dual threat because he is a good running QB and a great athlete and he can kinda pass a football if you want to call it that. He had a couple of really good games last year that has severely overrated him.

He could still turn it around and become a decent passer. But no defense is afraid of him throwing the ball.

Have you see the WR Talent around Fields in 2023?? DJ Moore - Darnell Mooney - Chase Claypool and Velus Jones Jr.
just to name a few. IF Justin Fields don't show marked improvements with that cast then he flat out Stinks!