Just a quick thought

[patfanken]

Over at PFT they had a article about Thuney not getting extended. Just below it was was a similar post about the fact Yannick Ngakoue in the same situation down in Jacksonville.

Well I immediately thought that this would be the perfect trade for both teams. Our need for help on the DL far exceeds our need for help at LG. A one for one swap of pro bowl caliber players would help both teams, and for a year at least be a quick fix for Thuney's situation.

Listen guys, I love Joe Thuney, but the fact is, it is easier to find an elite LG than an elite defensive lineman (that is if you think Ngakoue is an elite DE)

 

[Vatahala]

Except Joe is also a back-up center and tackle.

With the savings from AB and AH's contracts I would wait until I see how the DL performs for a few weeks and then make a trade if needed.

 

[signbabybrady]

Our D was excellent last year. Our Online was an Achilles heal. I know the return of Andrews and a hopeful healthy Wynn go a long way but I'd prefer to keep Thuney for the year.

 

[Hyped]

Nah, keep Thuney. I am not worried about the pass rush...I think we have a great group in:

John Simon
Deatrich Wise
Chase Winovich
Shilique Clahoun
Derek Rivers
Josh Uche

The DT spots could use more meat, but I am good with:

Lawrence Guy
Adam Butler
Byron Cowart
Beau Allen

And I think guys like Bill Murray/Nick Coe could surprise.

And we still can count on guys like Duggar, Phillips, Chung, etc...for run support as well....our secondary is stacked...best secondary in the BB era.

 

[farn]

I’ll vote Thuney at 15M for one year as well. The « new cap relief » should be good for a few necessary moves and he is durable, smart, productive, and respected within the locker.

 

[TBR]

Interesting trade to consider. Although minimizing wear & tear on a potentially fragile Newton would be ideal... and Thuney would help with that.

If they made a trade for someone, I'd rather it be an athletic LB who can chase down Mahomes or Jackson. Losing Van Noy and Collins hurts in that regard, and Uche is just a rookie.

 

[jah]

I have the same issue with this as I do with investing in Clowney. The team aggressively went after that position in the draft, so it would hinder the development of players we literally just targeted while not improving the team at positions we chose to ignore (for example, WR).

As for Yannick himself, I've heard mixed reviews about his ability to defend the run. If he indeed isn't a complete DE then there isn't even a conversation, but that's over my head.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Interesting thought Ken but I'm for keeping our new QBs upright as much as possible as they learn how to drive the new Josh McD 2020 offense. I know our noobs @ QB are mobile but I don't want to need that as a relied upon every game feature as probability of injury rises.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Don’t get me wrong. I like the idea of having a defender like that on this team. It would great if Wino and Uche excel and I think it would make it easier for everyone in the front 7, especially with the secondary.

But when it comes down to it, Yannick is a one year rental. Especially if he drops 15+ sacks. Just no chance imo, while I think there is a great chance of getting Thuney done.

 

[luuked]

Over at PFT they had a article about Thuney not getting extended. Just below it was was a similar post about the fact Yannick Ngakoue in the same situation down in Jacksonville.

Well I immediately thought that this would be the perfect trade for both teams. Our need for help on the DL far exceeds our need for help at LG. A one for one swap of pro bowl caliber players would help both teams, and for a year at least be a quick fix for Thuney's situation.

Listen guys, I love Joe Thuney, but the fact is, it is easier to find an elite LG than an elite defensive lineman (that is if you think Ngakoue is an elite DE)

My initial thought when Thuney got tagged was that there will definitely be an extension coming because why else pay 14.7M for a year. Now that it looks almost certain that this won't happen I am wondering if they are just buying a year to see how others on the OL will work out this year.

Can Mason get back to his usual self ? Will Andrews and Wynn be healthy through the season ? How will Froholdt and Cajuste look now with a redshirt year in them ?

I think BB is just buying time (for a lot of money) to figure out if they need Thuney for the long term because of all the other question marks.

It is entirely possible that they trade away Mason and keep Thuney instead if the former can't get back to form. Similarly if all of the developmental players fail you might need to use some of this big cap space next year to retain Thuney.

Or maybe they will just trade him in the next week.

 

[patfanken]

My initial thought when Thuney got tagged was that there will definitely be an extension coming because why else pay 14.7M for a year. Now that it looks almost certain that this won't happen I am wondering if they are just buying a year to see how others on the OL will work out this year.

Can Mason get back to his usual self ? Will Andrews and Wynn be healthy through the season ? How will Froholdt and Cajuste look now with a redshirt year in them ?

I think BB is just buying time (for a lot of money) to figure out if they need Thuney for the long term because of all the other question marks.

It is entirely possible that they trade away Mason and keep Thuney instead if the former can't get back to form. Similarly if all of the developmental players fail you might need to use some of this big cap space next year to retain Thuney.

Or maybe they will just trade him in the next week.

Well it was "just a thought" and on having a second look at it after reading all the well thought out comments above, maybe I was over reacting.

I still strongly believe an elite defensive lineman will have more impact to a team's success than an elite OG, AND are harder to find. But when I reexamined Ngakoue closer (I really didn't know much about him except he was good enough to be franchised), I started second guessing myself. A 6'2, 250lb DE isn't exactly Bill's prototype DE, regardless of his pass rush and impact play ability.

I still wonder if Thuney will last the season with us, but if he IS traded, who out there might be a better fit. A lot of guys on teams playing out their franchise tag. Is there another match out there?

BTW - One of my former TC binkies from last season, Byron Cowart is going to be a big surprise player for the Pats this season. He's naturally explosive. He flashed in limited snaps last season. He's likely going to get a lot more in 2020

 

[long distance]

My initial thought when Thuney got tagged was that there will definitely be an extension coming because why else pay 14.7M for a year. Now that it looks almost certain that this won't happen I am wondering if they are just buying a year to see how others on the OL will work out this year.

Can Mason get back to his usual self ? Will Andrews and Wynn be healthy through the season ? How will Froholdt and Cajuste look now with a redshirt year in them ?

I think BB is just buying time (for a lot of money) to figure out if they need Thuney for the long term because of all the other question marks.

It is entirely possible that they trade away Mason and keep Thuney instead if the former can't get back to form. Similarly if all of the developmental players fail you might need to use some of this big cap space next year to retain Thuney.

Or maybe they will just trade him in the next week.

Its hard to sign franchise IOL bc their FT go by OT. That means for Thuney (his manager) the baseline was 30M guaranteed over 2 years. That is a lot of $ for non prime position.

It was also hard to let JT go at this point with so many OL Q marks that include two RS rookies, underwhelming performance/progress of in-season acquisitions and the loss of Scar. Plus the loss of normal preseason.

It was a minor miracle (and a minor decline) that they could get Mason for that $. Not to mention Andrews that will play for the same money as backup Karras.

Normally now the two roads for IOL that make sense go by draft and by the street.. Same goes for LB. FT for these positions are just too far out from their average market prices and BB knows economics..

 

[patfanken]

My initial thought when Thuney got tagged was that there will definitely be an extension coming because why else pay 14.7M for a year. Now that it looks almost certain that this won't happen I am wondering if they are just buying a year to see how others on the OL will work out this year.

Can Mason get back to his usual self ? Will Andrews and Wynn be healthy through the season ? How will Froholdt and Cajuste look now with a redshirt year in them ?

I think BB is just buying time (for a lot of money) to figure out if they need Thuney for the long term because of all the other question marks.

It is entirely possible that they trade away Mason and keep Thuney instead if the former can't get back to form. Similarly if all of the developmental players fail you might need to use some of this big cap space next year to retain Thuney. Or maybe they will just trade him in the next week.

Frodholdt, Cajuste, even Elumanar could play significant roles going foward. If any of them starts to show Thuney like potential in TC, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Thuney go even after the season starts.

Another scenario has those 3 on a slower growth pattern and Thuney plays out the season and hopefully, in their 3rd year with the team at least one of those 3 pan out. They have certainly started with a lot worse on the OL and had superbowl runs.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'd rather keep Thuney.

And this board is sleeping on Jennings. I could see him being the better of Uche like Trey Flowers was with Grisham before him. His take off the LOS is really nasty.

 

[Flash]

Jaguars are already paying Andrew Norwell over $12M a year. I don't think they will trade for Thuney who is going to get even more after next year. It doesn't make sense for them to pay two offensive guards a lot of money.

 

[Joker]

Man, I just love reading Pats fans talk Patriot football...please, keep it up...

 

[luuked]

Its hard to sign franchise IOL bc their FT go by OT. That means for Thuney (his manager) the baseline was 30M guaranteed over 2 years. That is a lot of $ for non prime position.

It was also hard to let JT go at this point with so many OL Q marks that include two RS rookies, underwhelming performance/progress of in-season acquisitions and the loss of Scar. Plus the loss of normal preseason.

It was a minor miracle (and a minor decline) that they could get Mason for that $. Not to mention Andrews that will play for the same money as backup Karras.

Normally now the two roads for IOL that make sense go by draft and by the street.. Same goes for LB. FT for these positions are just too far out from their average market prices and BB knows economics..

It is very true that signing AP level IOL is costly.

However with the amount of cap space they will have next year and the uncertainty about how COVID will affect the next 1-2 draft classes (will there even be college football this year ?) the value proposition might change especially if various other pieces fail to develop.

At worst he will be a costly cornerstone contributor for this year while we are going through a QB transition and yield a compensatory pick in 2022.

Not an ideal situation but then again when I think back about how injuries limited OL play last year it's not a bad situation either to have Thuney around.

 

[p8ryts]

Nah, keep Thuney. I am not worried about the pass rush...I think we have a great group in:

John Simon
Deatrich Wise
Chase Winovich
Shilique Clahoun
Derek Rivers
Josh Uche

The DT spots could use more meat, but I am good with:

Lawrence Guy
Adam Butler
Byron Cowart
Beau Allen

And I think guys like Bill Murray/Nick Coe could surprise.

And we still can count on guys like Duggar, Phillips, Chung, etc...for run support as well....our secondary is stacked...best secondary in the BB era.

Agree about keeping Thuney.

Quality of pass rush remains to be determined. Expect Wise to be released along with Derek Rivers. Shilique Calhoun looked good in pre season but seemed to disappear in season. I was disappointed in his play. I'm a big Simon fan. Winovich and Uche could be a good tandem and don't forget Jennings as potential here.

DL same as last year. Hope one of Cowart, Murray or Coe contribute.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Thuney trade value now lessened as new team cannot extend him until post season. A huge risk diminishing his trade value.

 

[Hyped]

Agree about keeping Thuney.

Quality of pass rush remains to be determined. Expect Wise to be released along with Derek Rivers. Shilique Calhoun looked good in pre season but seemed to disappear in season. I was disappointed in his play. I'm a big Simon fan. Winovich and Uche could be a good tandem and don't forget Jennings as potential here.

DL same as last year. Hope one of Cowart, Murray or Coe contribute.

I have Jennings as an inside linebacker, but yeah...he can set the edge.