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Jimmy's Value

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I'm as excited as anyone about Garoppolo but Cassel had a 116 QB rating in week 1 of 2008 also.
 
Let's enter into an imaginary land for a minute. It is the end of week 4 and the Browns call up and offer you their 1st round pick and Joe Thomas for Garoppolo, would you make that trade?

I floated that trade on the draft board earlier today haha.

It's an obvious yes for me. It also gives the Browns an extra year of service to get him to fit in to the system.

Doubt they do, but could you imagine Brady behind Thomas and solder????
 
Let's enter into an imaginary land for a minute. It is the end of week 4 and the Browns call up and offer you their 1st round pick and Joe Thomas for Garoppolo, would you make that trade?


Yes
 
Let's enter into an imaginary land for a minute. It is the end of week 4 and the Browns call up and offer you their 1st round pick and Joe Thomas for Garoppolo, would you make that trade?

Absolutely, without a second thought. That's a top 10 (likely top 5) pick and a HOF, best-of-this-generation LT whose cap hit is a pretty reasonable $10M per year through 2018. He's cheaper than Solder, and quite a bit better. Even if Thomas is only 80% of himself by the end of the contract--which overstates his likely decline IMO--he'll still be easily worth it.
 
I think Cousins is a franchise QB.

I think he is too, but this year will be his chance to prove it. Could swing either way, but he's one of my favorite young QBs out there.
 
In order to get a first (or better) he has to marry a millionaire Brazilian supermodel. Otherwise his is chopped liver.
 
Absolutely, without a second thought. That's a top 10 (likely top 5) pick and a HOF, best-of-this-generation LT whose cap hit is a pretty reasonable $10M per year through 2018. He's cheaper than Solder, and quite a bit better. Even if Thomas is only 80% of himself by the end of the contract--which overstates his likely decline IMO--he'll still be easily worth it.
I think Solder would be really effective at RT as well.
 
I'm as excited as anyone about Garoppolo but Cassel had a 116 QB rating in week 1 of 2008 also.
I think you would agree that Jimmy played 10x better and was more impactful than Cassell did on that day vs KC.
 
I think Solder would be really effective at RT as well.

Played really well there when we still had Light on the roster.

Some sort of smash mouth football fantasy this would be

Bennett
Thomas
Thuney
Andrews
Mason/cooper
Solder
Gronk

That line would embarrass pass rushers and run defenses. Didn't think we would ever see something comparable to the '11 season when we had Waters and mankins, but that would do it.
 
The return on a trade would be draft picks, and even first-round picks are a roll of the dice. I think the important question is the one bolded above: he might take a bit less to extend with the Patriots knowing it's a quality program he's familiar with in which he will be groomed as Brady's successor. Like I said, the Patriots might have to overspend on the QB position for a year or two but it just might be worth the sacrifice if Garoppolo is as good as I think he might be.

People are obsessed with outcomes, but process also matters. The return on a trade would be good even if the picks didn't pan out.

As an example, let's say you bought an old jersey online for $25. Then it gains a tremendous amount of value (say you find a signature on it or something) and then sell it for $200. Then you blow the $200 on lottery tickets and win nothing.

It was still a good deal to sell it for the price you did, regardless of the outcome of what you spent the money on. They are two separate transactions.

It depends on how stupid/desperate a team like, say Cleveland is. It could be anywhere from trading first round picks from 32 to 1 over all, to a 1 and a two. (Before anyone craps on the 1 and a two being stupid, we are talking Cleveland )

Desperation can obviously drive up that value, and yes Bradford got a 1st, but nobody thinks he's worth that, even Minnesota. They're doing a different calculation of their contending window and feel it's not worth sacrificing one of the last Peterson years with a solid contender. But that calculation has way more to do with everyone else on the roster than Bradford's actual worth.

Personally, I think Jimmy is worth a lot and yet I don't think teams will give up a lot. Maybe a 1st, but multiple 1sts seems way too much. One of the benefits of drafting a young QB is having 4 or 5 years of really good QB play for a fraction of the cost on your salary cap. Trading for Jimmy will only give 1 year of that value.

And while Cleveland is historically stupid and cursed, their new guys are willing to suck for a while. They're not desperate, and it is not business as usual in Cleveland. They are maximizing their draft pick value and I could see the analytics side driving them to draft a QB with that 1st rather than trade it for a QB. You can never say never with Cleveland, but I would be surprised if they were going to trade a lot.

Where it might get interesting is in the coaching carousel, especially if Josh goes out on his own. I remember hearing he made an offer for Cassel (and a better one than the Chiefs did, but BB already agreed with Pioli). I'd hate to lose Josh, but if he's gone anyways, maybe he can flip us a nice bounty to take Jimmy with him.
 
People are obsessed with outcomes, but process also matters. The return on a trade would be good even if the picks didn't pan out.

As an example, let's say you bought an old jersey online for $25. Then it gains a tremendous amount of value (say you find a signature on it or something) and then sell it for $200. Then you blow the $200 on lottery tickets and win nothing.

It was still a good deal to sell it for the price you did, regardless of the outcome of what you spent the money on. They are two separate transactions.



Desperation can obviously drive up that value, and yes Bradford got a 1st, but nobody thinks he's worth that, even Minnesota. They're doing a different calculation of their contending window and feel it's not worth sacrificing one of the last Peterson years with a solid contender. But that calculation has way more to do with everyone else on the roster than Bradford's actual worth.

Personally, I think Jimmy is worth a lot and yet I don't think teams will give up a lot. Maybe a 1st, but multiple 1sts seems way too much. One of the benefits of drafting a young QB is having 4 or 5 years of really good QB play for a fraction of the cost on your salary cap. Trading for Jimmy will only give 1 year of that value.

And while Cleveland is historically stupid and cursed, their new guys are willing to suck for a while. They're not desperate, and it is not business as usual in Cleveland. They are maximizing their draft pick value and I could see the analytics side driving them to draft a QB with that 1st rather than trade it for a QB. You can never say never with Cleveland, but I would be surprised if they were going to trade a lot.

Where it might get interesting is in the coaching carousel, especially if Josh goes out on his own. I remember hearing he made an offer for Cassel (and a better one than the Chiefs did, but BB already agreed with Pioli). I'd hate to lose Josh, but if he's gone anyways, maybe he can flip us a nice bounty to take Jimmy with him.

Belichick's hit rate on first round picks is high enough that I'm comfortable regarding them as borderline sure things. And borderline sure things that can be had at a cheap cap figure for 4-5 years, no less. Doubly so if the pick's in the top half of the round; when we have missed on firsts, it's generally at the tail end of the round in weak drafts, and only one of the misses has been too egregious.
 
If Jimmy goes 4-0, I say you let him start over Brady in week 5 against Cleveland. Show case him and maybe hoax the Browns into doing something stupid. They have like 2 first and 2 seconds that would be awesome to get any combination of. Maybe a first and a switch of our (hopefully 32nd) with one of theirs (say, like their first from the Eagels)
Also, it probably wouldn't hurt to give Brady and extra week to get back in the swing of things, and not to mention, a extra week for rest probably won't hurt also. It also would allow him to start week 6 when hopefully a bunch of players will be coming of PuP.
Just my 2 cents!
 
JG would look nice in SF. They're a team that has to get a QB. Depending on the next few weeks, I could see Bill and Chip doing something in the off season.
 
What his value is and what i trade him for at 2 separate things. To get value back we need about a 62. To get his value and the deflategate value back we need about 16 overall and this is me speaking purely of draft stock on the trade value chart which i don't agree with personally but a lot of teams like it so i'll use it.

If I were a GM and wanted to trade for him I know I get 1 year cheap then have to pay for the rest but that is not a big deal as usually any QB worth a damn you trade for you need to pay instantly as most teams don't trade young quality cheap QBs. This is an aberration so really that ups his value having 1 cheap year.

If Jimmy G shows well the next 3 games. Shows an ability to make key plays at the end without making mistakes and the ability to get the ball in a tight window in the end zone then his value is pretty high. If I were an opposing GM I would be willing to go a 1st and a 2nd next year to get him if he showed me those things. He might never be a top tier QB but he should he could maybe be one and at least has 10 year franchise potential.

Ask a team like the Rams how much it sucks having a complete crap QB this game and how much they think a decent QB might change the game they are in. Not great just pretty good.

However If I am the Patriots I need to keep in mind Brady could suddenly fall off a cliff and while Brissett is promising he is not ready yet and unlike Jimmy has shown nothing in the NFL game vs a quality defense. Jimmy has that. What if I trade Jimmy away for a 1st in 2017 and 2nd in 2018 and suddenly Brady falls off and Brissett doesn't build on a promising rookie year (a lot of players can't build on a rookie year.. particularly QBs).

Now we traded away our future and are scrambling to find a QB and the 1st and 2nd round picks seem meaningless.

So if I believe Jimmy can be a quality NFL starter I would not trade him unless a team gives me a deal that illustrates that value. 1st round picks bust sometimes even for the Pats and I have a pretty good idea what we have in Jimmy. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

If I trade Jimmy I want to be compensated on a team paying like they believe he is their answer for 10+ years. If not keep him and keep your options open going into 2018.

So either a top 2 pick (which can be traded for a lot more... which i would do mostly likely and get multiple first).
2 top 10 picks
3 overall first round picks if they are low.

Basically I want about 2500+ in draft value for Jimmy as baseline. If I don't get that I am not interested.
 
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Should we keep Jimmy and trade Brady rather if Jimmy keeps playing like this?

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Nope. I would honestly consider this if in a different situation but the Pats have an excellent chance to win this year with Brady and those odds fall way down with Jimmy. If you are knocking on the door to a championship nothing is more important. IDC if Bradu gets you 3 first round picks. You have IMO the best odds to win this year and get ring 5 and you don't muck with that.

Now after this year in 2017... depending on who you keep you still have a very good chance to win most likely. IDK who we will lose but we will certainly be competitive and I don't downgrade at QB if the Pats have a chance to win.
 
A 1st & a 4th for Garapolo and Belichick parlays that into 3 seconds, 1 third, 2 fourths, and a 5th
 
Add in the Rams as desperate. Their QB is complete ass.
 
The same Rams team that just drafted Jared Goff #1 overall five months ago?

Oh yeah. Well why isn't he in there then? How can he suck worse than this guy?
 
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