Jimmy Graham NE Patriot?

[Brady_to_Moss]

Next thread will be on the pats getting JJ Watt

 

[ausbacker]

Next thread will be on the pats getting JJ Watt

I'd be OK with the combination of Red Bryant and Jared Allen.

 

[OhExaulted1]

A pipe dream of all pipe dreams. Even if we wanted to give up the 2-firsts, we would have to cut too many players to pay this guy. Gronk is better than Graham and if I had to rip a player from a team - I would go for Cotchery, at least he would NO longer kill us. But in all seriousness, how do we afford this guy AND the ones we NEED to sign?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...how-pats-can-get-under-cap-25-34-million.html

 

[Deus Irae]

Will this be happening before, or after, they trade Gronk and Amendola away?

 

[strngplyr]

Will this be happening before, or after, they trade Gronk and Amendola away?

Actually, we're going to trade the Saints for Ben Watson, I think a 7th will do, then straight up trade Watson for Graham.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Will this be happening before, or after, they trade Gronk and Amendola away?

That would actually cost us like 9.5 mil., but if you cut Wilfork and Sopoaga it would be about equal that in the other direction though.

And while were on Gronk, it wouldn't be against CBA rules to trade a player on IR, but I don't remember that ever happening before.

 

[supafly]

I'll buy a defensive guy. Of course you saw VJC mention Welker and Dillon, so they have made similar yet not as pricey moves before.

What I believe is SOME TEAM is going to make an offer on or soon after the 11th if the Saints don't get something done. Going with the non-exclusive tag on him as a TE is definitely bait, and he could even hold out. I figure why not us?

I know all the cap junkies call it a pipe dream, but you'll be thinking "why didn't we take a shot at him?" if he ends up in say GB, Carolina or [gasp] the Jets.

Why? Why is that impossible? You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Goodell's table that you've missed your God-given right to something better.-William Wallace

I normally agree with most of what you say, OE1, but I'm not seeing a high likelihood of any of the 31 other teams giving up 2 first round picks myself.

The exclusive franchise tag is rarely used, and that's because no one wishes to give up 2 first round picks as compensation.

I don't think it's necessarily a horrible idea, but we rarely if ever, see it happen. You'd not only have to give up 2 firsts (enormous in terms of the future negative aspect it will have on your team), but you'd also have to pay Graham above and beyond what the Saints would match.

 

[pheenix11]

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Our first round draft picks over the past 20 years:

1993 Drew Bledsoe
1994 Willie McGinest
1995 Ty Law
1996 Terry Glenn
1997 Chris Canty
1998 Robert Edwards
1998 Tebucky Jones
1999 Damien Woody
1999 Andy Katzenmoyer
2001 Richard Seymour
2002 Daniel Graham
2003 Ty Warren
2004 Vince Wilfork
2004 Benjamin Watson
2005 Logan Mankins
2006 Laurence Maroney
2007 Brandon Meriweather
2008 Jerod Mayo
2010 Devin McCourty
2011 Nate Solder
2012 Chandler Jones
2012 Dont'a Hightower

How many of those players are as valuable as Jimmy Graham? I count about 8 out of those 22 picks. So about a 36% chance of picking a player as good as Graham.

Two picks, means you have a 72% chance.

I know the salary cap ramifications of drafting a great player and having him on the cheap for a few years is the allure but I've never understood why people are so enamored with the CHANCE of drafting a great player over a sure thing.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[Sciz]

How many of those players are as valuable as Jimmy Graham? I count about 8 out of those 22 picks. So about a 36% chance of picking a player as good as Graham.

Two picks, means you have a 72% chance.

I know the salary cap ramifications of drafting a great player and having him on the cheap for a few years is the allure but I've never understood why people are so enamored with the CHANCE of drafting a great player over a sure thing.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Given today's rookie contract structure and Graham's supposed contract demands, it's more like two late first round picks PLUS a $7M/yr player. So even if you'd take Graham over those two first round picks, would you take Graham over those two first round picks and Talib? I think that cap room is a lot more significant than you're saying.

 

[supafly]

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Our first round draft picks over the past 20 years:

1993 Drew Bledsoe
1994 Willie McGinest
1995 Ty Law
1996 Terry Glenn
1997 Chris Canty
1998 Robert Edwards
1998 Tebucky Jones
1999 Damien Woody
1999 Andy Katzenmoyer
2001 Richard Seymour
2002 Daniel Graham
2003 Ty Warren
2004 Vince Wilfork
2004 Benjamin Watson
2005 Logan Mankins
2006 Laurence Maroney
2007 Brandon Meriweather
2008 Jerod Mayo
2010 Devin McCourty
2011 Nate Solder
2012 Chandler Jones
2012 Dont'a Hightower

How many of those players are as valuable as Jimmy Graham? I count about 8 out of those 22 picks. So about a 36% chance of picking a player as good as Graham.

Two picks, means you have a 72% chance.

I know the salary cap ramifications of drafting a great player and having him on the cheap for a few years is the allure but I've never understood why people are so enamored with the CHANCE of drafting a great player over a sure thing.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I understand the allure, but I think that forfeiting your 1st round pick for the next two years AND having to make an offer that the Saints aren't going to match is something that Belichick won't choose to want to do. On top of that, there's no "sure thing" with any player, and his contract would cost a ton.

Obviously, we never see it done. Hell, we don't even see RFA's leave their teams, let alone someone give up TWO first round picks. It just doesn't happen too often, and I'm guessing there's a good reason for that.

Not saying that I don't get your side, b/c I definitely do. It just doesn't happen though.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'd be OK with the combination of Red Bryant and Jared Allen.

I would be happy with just Bryant, that would be a great way to start the offseason.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I would love to have a 2nd dominant TE to pair with Gronkowski , as well as a 3rd one to step in if either went down, because i believe it is essential to what they want to do offensively, and their offense was limited without it this season. However Graham would cost too much in compensation and there is no way they pay him more than the Saints would be willing to match, so they will go for a mid level TE in free agency and draft one, they won't forfeit their next 2 first rounders and 70 million to bring in Jimmy Graham. Beyond that I don't see Belichick paying a guy that much money when he was able to shut him out in their game last season with one DB.

 

[AzorianPats]

Graham not coming here. Its a nice dream, but it'll never happen.

Pitta is a fine TE, but not worth $6 mil a year. They just set the market. Graham gonna get over $11 mil a year.

And if all that happens, I can already see Gronk coming back, playing a full season and beasting it, then next off season his agent and father trying to squeeze out more money from the Pats.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I normally agree with most of what you say, OE1, but I'm not seeing a high likelihood of any of the 31 other teams giving up 2 first round picks myself.

The exclusive franchise tag is rarely used, and that's because no one wishes to give up 2 first round picks as compensation.

I don't think it's necessarily a horrible idea, but we rarely if ever, see it happen. You'd not only have to give up 2 firsts (enormous in terms of the future negative aspect it will have on your team), but you'd also have to pay Graham above and beyond what the Saints would match.

I don't see it happening for us either, but yes it does sound awfully damn enticing. I guess more than anything I'm shocked the Saints haven't wrapped him solid or at least tagged him as a WR. Now the dude's pissed. He's gonna be looking to get out of town and it could be a Revis type situation if he decides to hold out.

Yes, it'll cost a boatload of cash to sign him, but if he holds out it might not necessarily end up being 2 1st rounders. The Saints took advantage of the tag rule and totally low-balled him. He's got every right to be pissed and looking to get out of town. It's like your an engineer who helps out with production, then your company deciding they just want to pay you as a production worker. I'd be effin BS.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't see it happening for us either, but yes it does sound awfully damn enticing. I guess more than anything I'm shocked the Saints haven't wrapped him solid or at least tagged him as a WR. Now the dude's pissed. He's gonna be looking to get out of town and it could be a Revis type situation if he decides to hold out.

Yes, it'll cost a boatload of cash to sign him, but if he holds out it might not necessarily end up being 2 1st rounders. The Saints took advantage of the tag rule and totally low-balled him. He's got every right to be pissed and looking to get out of town. It's like your an engineer who helps out with production, then your company deciding they just want to pay you as a production worker. I'd be effin BS.

I'd rather stack the D than bring Jimmy Graham to New England. That would be the Managing Director bringing in a few more rocket scientists with the aim to build an interstellar propulsion system.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Our first round draft picks over the past 20 years:

1993 Drew Bledsoe
1994 Willie McGinest
1995 Ty Law
1996 Terry Glenn
1997 Chris Canty
1998 Robert Edwards
1998 Tebucky Jones
1999 Damien Woody
1999 Andy Katzenmoyer
2001 Richard Seymour
2002 Daniel Graham
2003 Ty Warren
2004 Vince Wilfork
2004 Benjamin Watson
2005 Logan Mankins
2006 Laurence Maroney
2007 Brandon Meriweather
2008 Jerod Mayo
2010 Devin McCourty
2011 Nate Solder
2012 Chandler Jones
2012 Dont'a Hightower

How many of those players are as valuable as Jimmy Graham? I count about 8 out of those 22 picks. So about a 36% chance of picking a player as good as Graham.

Two picks, means you have a 72% chance.

I know the salary cap ramifications of drafting a great player and having him on the cheap for a few years is the allure but I've never understood why people are so enamored with the CHANCE of drafting a great player over a sure thing.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I don't think it is. Nowadays, it really depends how much the bird costs.

I would love to trade for Larry Fitzgerald and Jimmy Graham and Megatron. Are those guys better than most of our draft picks? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we can afford them.

With the salary cap and rookie wages, hitting on your 1st-round picks can be just as significant in fielding a competitive team as getting an All-Pro player at full-price. Russell Wilson's small contract lets Seattle take chances at other spots like Harvin. If Wilson was getting $14-$20M a year, they can't gamble on that contract.

Graham himself was a 3rd-round pick, and the Saints got 3 years of Pro Bowl play out of him for less than $2.5M total (his first year was relatively slow).

Put another way, Calvin Johnson was one of the top 5 receivers in yards this season. You might even put him at #1 when you factor everything else in. He made more than the other top 4 combined. Is Calvin Johnson better than A.J. Green and Demaryius Thomas and Josh Gordon and Antonio Brown? Probably, yes. Would I take him instead of those 4 other guys for the same price? Hell no.

In the modern NFL, it isn't solely about production, it's about production relative to value. If we can get even 50% of Graham's production out of a 1st-round TE for 10% of the cost and still have another 1st-rounder to use in the future, that makes much more sense than paying top of the market price and giving up two cheap starter contracts.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Our first round draft picks over the past 20 years:

1993 Drew Bledsoe
1994 Willie McGinest
1995 Ty Law
1996 Terry Glenn
1997 Chris Canty
1998 Robert Edwards
1998 Tebucky Jones
1999 Damien Woody
1999 Andy Katzenmoyer
2001 Richard Seymour
2002 Daniel Graham
2003 Ty Warren
2004 Vince Wilfork
2004 Benjamin Watson
2005 Logan Mankins
2006 Laurence Maroney
2007 Brandon Meriweather
2008 Jerod Mayo
2010 Devin McCourty
2011 Nate Solder
2012 Chandler Jones
2012 Dont'a Hightower

How many of those players are as valuable as Jimmy Graham? I count about 8 out of those 22 picks. So about a 36% chance of picking a player as good as Graham.

Two picks, means you have a 72% chance.

I know the salary cap ramifications of drafting a great player and having him on the cheap for a few years is the allure but I've never understood why people are so enamored with the CHANCE of drafting a great player over a sure thing.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Drew, TY, Sey and Vince. Maybe Willie and Logan. That's 4-6. Besides the current players on our roster, none played his entire career in NE (save Katz FWIW). When you get them on the cheap and then lowball 'em, they inevitably leave or get traded (or get cut if they stink).

He's going to get paid somewhere, and NO may have just shot themselves in the foot. If they tagged him as a WR this thread wouldn't even exist

 

[lurker1965]

Um, let's put a pin in that and get back to it.

Jimmy Graham as the messiah.

 

[WhoaDirty]

Points scored in Pats last 3 playoff losses.....16,13,17

22 games have been played in the playoffs over the past two years.....no winning team scored less than 19 points

Your solution to the offensive problem in the playoffs is to give up 2 1st round picks plus a huge contract to a guy who averages 4 catches a game in the playoffs?

 

[WhoaDirty]

Drew, TY, Sey and Vince. Maybe Willie and Logan. That's 4-6. Besides the current players on our roster, none played his entire career in NE (save Katz FWIW). When you get them on the cheap and then lowball 'em, they inevitably leave or get traded (or get cut if they stink).

He's going to get paid somewhere, and NO may have just shot themselves in the foot. If they tagged him as a WR this thread wouldn't even exist

Maybe Willie??