Jesus Death on the Cross was enough- It is not what we do, it is what He did

[Den-in-NH]

Den, I am Jewish. I am reform Jewish, so there's no need to go the route of "you can't really be Jewish because the Temple sacrifices stopped and presto chango now the Temple sacrifices are replaced by (drumroll...)"

Simple answer, yes, I am a monotheist, and a Jew.

I do not start threads extolling my beliefs, because I have no desire to discuss them at quite the length others do theirs -- in other words, I don't particularly want or need you to become Jewish, so I prefer not to discuss the details of the religion with you. I am certain you would find my beliefs quite heterodox, but again, that is neither here nor there.

I do, however, comment in these threads from a "detatched" point of view, the idea being to say, "if I saw these features in, say, Yanomamo culture, what would I see the purposes of them as? If I saw this history in, say, a martian religion, what would I say about it?"

Obviously this approach would make anybody's blood boil, from the POV of a "believer" -- and this is precisely why I avoid starting threads on my own religion. I have no desire to hold up my own faith to ridicule, by attempting to convince others of its merits.

So, long story short, you probably got in the propwash on this one from the start.

As you say, we will agree to disagree. Just to clarify, in case (heaven forbid) you're still looking for a crack in the monolith through which just a tiny bit of divine light can seep, if only the right messenger approaches at the right angle... I do very much take offense at being proselytized to. I do not like it. I find it insulting to my intelligence.

Let's discuss civilly but please, refrain from saving my blackened and damned soul And to clarify that - of COURSE I do not believe my soul to be anything of the sort, nor can you get me to believe such things. I can't believe such tactics ever work, at least on adults

PFnV

Cool. I can understand where you are coming from. My wife is Jewish, believe it or not, and I often recieve quite a similar reaction when we discuss such matters - which we do.

Your faith warrants no ridicule. The Jews' are Yahweh's Chosen People, and Christians should have a great deal of respect for Jews and their traditions, culture, and history. I would never expect nor desire for anyone of the Jewish faith to abandon their culture.

Please recognize, however, that I do not see Judaism and Christianity as being mutually exclusive. I know that may sound strange, but I do believe that one can follow the laws of Judasim and call him or herself a Christian as well. As you pointed out before the first Christians and Christ himself were such. I know many Jews, my wife included, would see being Messianic as a betrayal of their faith - I do not agree that it should be considered such.

Judaism and Christianity are so closely connected - many modern Christians forget this.

Please do not begrudge Christians for attempting to spread the Good News - it is not an attack on any faith and is certainly not intended as an insult. Please be patient with Christians and understand that we believe we are commanded to spread the word.

We have more in common then both of us may have originally thought.

Your friend,

-Den

 

[Lifer]

If we take Jesus' word for it, however, without homiletic gymnastics, Pauline Christianity has succeeded, not Jesus' mission

must disagree here. Jesus mission was indeed fulfilled. He came here to do exactly was He did so that we may all have eternal life.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Gotcha, Den. I'll not poke my nose into your family life. I think it's a bit more than the feeling of a "betrayal of her faith," it's more a matter -- at least for me -- of there being no real reason to believe Jesus was the messiah (from a Jewish POV - let's not get into "proof texts," if we can avoid it )


Anyway, I'm glad we have found common ground regarding any urge you may have had to proseletyze to me.

I do, in fact, begrudge peoples of various faiths their proselytizing ways, but I'm not the king of the world. All I can do is attempt to let proselytizers know how arrogant and rude the behavior seems to the proselytized to.

I do also believe that those who proselytize to children, particularly using threats of torment in either this life or the next, preserve for themselves a very special place in hell, if such a place exists

PFnV