JE11 on Garoppolo

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I know it's no problem to dump on any players we want here, but the HC is off limits.

The biggest or second biggest question the Pats have, is understanding when Bill goes from the smartest mind in the room and the best person for the job. To just the smartest mind in the room.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

But if Garoppolo had caved in to guys like Edelman and Bennett back then and seriously injured his shoulder, he might have missed out on $137 Million. That's $137 Million. I don't know why this is even a discussion... Garoppolo made the right decision here. We might not like it. Edelman might not like it. Bennett certainly didn't like it. But in the end, the Patriots won the Super Bowl that year so his decision did not adversely affect the team's success.

It is a discussion because JG's teammates disagree with you and they have made that very clear. I take it you never played in the NFL and do not think like actual NFL players. That is why it is a discussion, because multiple ex-players (watch the podcast where Edelman spoke) chose it as a topic, preprinted Bennett's comments for Edelman to read, and asked Edelman what he thought.

It is now generally thought that Brady was referring to JG in this clip. Again, it is important to the players. Brady wanted revenge for FA snub: 'I'm going to f--- you up because of that'

 

[Rob0729]

To be fair, an accurate QB helps receivers maximize YAC.

Yeah, but Samuel's numbers for YAC is off the charts literally and so is his forced missed tackles. Look at this chart (from 2016 to 2020):



And here is another chart that shows that Samuel gets his passes at unusually short routes (he is catching passes on routes on under 4 yards on average), but he gets above average yards per catch. That is more on Samuel than Garoppolo.



And look at his rushing yards per carry. The guy has a career 6.8 YPC on 81 carries in his career. That is pretty impressive number. He rushed 59 times for 365 yards (6.2 YPC) and 8 TDs last year. That has nothing to do with Jimmy G.

 

[captain stone]

Yes, Edelman and Bennett are within their right. And I'm within my right to criticize their opinion of JG's action. His football future was in a precarious position, not Edelman's or Bennett's.

But if Garoppolo had caved in to guys like Edelman and Bennett back then and seriously injured his shoulder, he might have missed out on $137 Million. That's $137 Million. I don't know why this is even a discussion... Garoppolo made the right decision here. We might not like it. Edelman might not like it. Bennett certainly didn't like it. But in the end, the Patriots won the Super Bowl that year so his decision did not adversely affect the team's success.

Even if his injury was to his Throwing shoulder - i.e.: the shoulder on which he & the Miami defender actually landed - what precarious situation was he really in? The dude had a Year And One-Half still remaining on his contract, for Pete's sake...

If he was making business decisions that early, then that might help explain why he (& his HC) is such a ****ing gutless ****ing Choke Artist, as men of little character often are.

 

[1960Pats]

Agreed. But Bennett and Edelman were there in the locker room, and eye witnesses to the whole affair. You base your whole opinion on hearsay. Therefore, people listen to what Edelman and Bennett have to say, nobody listens to you.

As I already explained a few times, I don't care what reason JG had for bowing out. Just the fact that he felt that he needed to is enough for me. There's no hearsay in that.

 

[1960Pats]

The biggest or second biggest question the Pats have, is understanding when Bill goes from the smartest mind in the room and the best person for the job. To just the smartest mind in the room.

Bill is the best HC on the field, especially on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not so sure that he's as great at filling the roster though.

Unfortunately for Bill, after he let Brady go and Brady won a SB with the Bucs the very next year, the pressure to win without Brady has now affected Bill's legacy, fair or not.

 

[1960Pats]

Even if his injury was to his Throwing shoulder - i.e.: the shoulder on which he & the Miami defender actually landed - what precarious situation was he really in? The dude had a Year And One-Half still remaining on his contract, for Pete's sake...

If he was making business decisions that early, then that might help explain why he (& his HC) is such a ****ing gutless ****ing Choke Artist, as men of little character often are.

Any NYFL player who isn't making business decisions as soon as he enters the league is a damn fool and will soon be parted with his money. Bill surely would have dumped JG if he got re-injured.

And still nobody talks about the real reasons for JGs injury. Goody & the 32 suspending Brady for nothing and Kiko Alonzo's cheap shot.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill is the best HC on the field, especially on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not so sure that he's as great at filling the roster though.

You don't go to 9 SBs in 18 years with a 1/2 ass roster surrounding a franchise QB.

Additionally he made the playoffs two years removed from Tom leaving with a rookie QB.

He is the unquestioned GOAT at filling out a roster multiple times over.

Unfortunately for Bill, after he let Brady go and Brady won a SB with the Bucs the very next year, the pressure to win without Brady has now affected Bill's legacy, fair or not.

Not accurate. His legacy is fine. Are Lombardi, Landry, Noll and Walsh's legacies impacted because they didn't win without Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw and Montana?

 

[sb1]

Bill is the best HC on the field, especially on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not so sure that he's as great at filling the roster though.

Unfortunately for Bill, after he let Brady go and Brady won a SB with the Bucs the very next year, the pressure to win without Brady has now affected Bill's legacy, fair or not.

I think the question of "who was more responsible" has been answered and decisively so but I don't think Bill's legacy is affected much if at all by that. Especially since the Patriots didn't crater after Brady left. Even though the season ended as badly as it possibly could they did make the playoffs last year and seem to have found a QB. Maybe just to those who think there was a magical "system" here that can win with any QB.

Bill also isn't the only all time coach that was way less successful without their all world QB.

 

[1960Pats]

You don't go to 9 SBs in 18 years with a 1/2 ass roster surrounding a franchise QB.

Additionally he made the playoffs two years removed from Tom leaving with a rookie QB.

He is the unquestioned GOAT at filling out a roster multiple times over.

Not accurate. His legacy is fine. Are Lombardi, Landry, Noll and Walsh's legacies impacted because they didn't win without Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw and Montana?

I didn't say that he sucked at roster building, I said that he wasn't as great at it as he was as a HC. That's true.

Bill's post Brady career is still in the making. Making the playoffs as the 7th seed of 16 teams and getting blown out in game one isn't something to write home about. It's a decent start though.

 

[sb1]

Not accurate. His legacy is fine. Are Lombardi, Landry, Noll and Walsh's legacies impacted because they didn't win without Starr, Staubach, Bradshaw and Montana?

Yeah. Only thing that torpedo's Bill's legacy now is another -gate scandal and that won't happen.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I didn't say that he sucked at roster building, I said that he wasn't as great at it as he was as a HC. That's true.

No it isn't. The amount of talent and successful NFL careers that has been acquired and developed by BB is unprecedented.

Also factor in cap management as THE way to maintain competitive rosters.

Hes just as good as a GM as a coach.

Bill's post Brady career is still in the making. Making the playoffs as the 7th seed of 16 teams and getting blown out in game one isn't something to write home about. It's a decent start though.

How many other NFL coaches/GMs the last 20 years have made the playoffs shortly after losing their franchise QB 2 years later?

Additionally there were only 16 players on the 2021 playoff roster which were also on the 2018 SB roster. That is ~80% turnover + PS.

I don't think you are grasping how incredibly difficult that is.

 

[captain stone]

Any NYFL player who isn't making business decisions as soon as he enters the league is a damn fool and will soon be parted with his money. Bill surely would have dumped JG if he got re-injured.

There's a difference - at least I feel there is - between being smart with your NFL paychecks, however long they last, and deciding whether to play the day before a game because of how that might affect your next contract in two years...

And still nobody talks about the real reasons for JGs injury. Goody & the 32 suspending Brady for nothing and Kiko Alonzo's cheap shot.

We all understand that Brady's suspension was bogus... But I don't know if the hit on Grop was that much of a cheap shot...

 

[1960Pats]

No it isn't. The amount of talent and successful NFL careers that has been acquired and developed by BB is unprecedented.

Also factor in cap management as THE way to maintain competitive rosters.

Hes just as good as a GM as a coach.

How many other NFL coaches/GMs the last 20 years have made the playoffs shortly after losing their franchise QB 2 years later?

Additionally there were only 16 players on the 2021 playoff roster which were also on the 2018 SB roster. That is ~80% turnover + PS.

I don't think you are grasping how incredibly difficult that is.

I guess it all depends how far back you go in discussing the success of HC/GMs. Most of them had to be better than 7th of 16 to make the playoffs and none of them got blown out in epic proportions the way our team did.

There were only 16 players left over from the success of 2018 because the GM dumped the others, including some heavy hitters like Brady and Gronk. And he got nothing in return for them.

I have an idea how difficult it is to repeat as a champion even one year, let alone for 20. I just credit the players more than you.

 

[1960Pats]

There's a difference - at least I feel there is - between being smart with your NFL paychecks, however long they last, and deciding whether to play the day before a game because of how that might affect your next contract in two years...


We all understand that Brady's suspension was bogus... But I don't know if the hit on Grop was that much of a cheap shot...

Alonzo grabbed JG, wrapped him up and turned him sideways so he could slam his shoulder to the ground with all of his weight on him. That's textbook dirty and has been a penalty for a few years now.

 

[Sicilian]

I guess it all depends how far back you go in discussing the success of HC/GMs. Most of them had to be better than 7th of 16 to make the playoffs and none of them got blown out in epic proportions the way our team did.

There were only 16 players left over from the success of 2018 because the GM dumped the others, including some heavy hitters like Brady and Gronk. And he got nothing in return for them.

I have an idea how difficult it is to repeat as a champion even one year, let alone for 20. I just credit the players more than you.

Just to nitpick, Patriots were the 6 seed last year so they would have made it under the old format as well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I guess it all depends how far back you go in discussing the success of HC/GMs. Most of them had to be better than 7th of 16 to make the playoffs and none of them got blown out in epic proportions the way our team did.

I go back as far as their body of work allows us to. I don't dismiss decades of success just because it's convenient to make an argument.

There were only 16 players left over from the success of 2018 because the GM dumped the others, including some heavy hitters like Brady and Gronk. And he got nothing in return for them.

Players that left after 2018 either couldn't or wouldn't play here. To say "The GM got rid of them" is BS.

I have an idea how difficult it is to repeat as a champion even one year, let alone for 20. I just credit the players more than you.

Of course a team needs great players. Fans that dismiss the GM and HC for not acquiring, developing and putting them in a position of success don't get it. Winning football teams have strong FOs and coaching. Crappy ones don't. This isn't the NBA where the inmates run the asylum.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

One thing you can never question Brady about was his toughness and willing to play through pain…

Steve Grogan says hi

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I didn't say that he sucked at roster building, I said that he wasn't as great at it as he was as a HC. That's true.

Bill's post Brady career is still in the making. Making the playoffs as the 7th seed of 16 teams and getting blown out in game one isn't something to write home about. It's a decent start though.

That reminds me, I think I have to finally admit Allen is a good quarterback.

Of course, we can still beat him.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Steve Grogan says hi

JG vs TB12 vs SG is a pretty interesting comparison. It highlights the fact that elite QBs have to be physically able to make plays, be tough and make quick decisions and execute, especially when the game is on the line. Having good players around the QB determines wins and losses.

Brady excels in all three areas, which is why he is the GOAT. All other Pat QB's with the possible exception of Jim Plunkett fell short in one or more of these categories. JG is not tough enough and makes stupid decisions at critical moments. It has been a long time, I remember that SG was tough, was not that accurate with his passes. Bledsoe made bad decisions, Tony Eason was not tough, ....

So far the only question about Mac seems to be his ability to make the throws physically. He has proven to be tough and able to handle the mental part of the game. His work in the gym and Tom House indicates that his arm should be 'stronger' in 2022. That said some of the perceived lack of arm strength could be related to decision making that should also improve with time.