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Jakobi Meyers a good bet to lead the team in targets, receptions, and yards

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Oct 31st

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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I agree with the sentiment...But Agholor is simply not going to be a high-number-of-catches guy here; Henry & Smith will more-or-less split targets/receptions; and Bourne is...well I don't know what he is exactly...He's being paid more than I would've offered him that's for sure...

I think Meyers gets a lot of Edelman plays and Bourne probably gets a lot of Amendola-like plays. Meyers higher up on the depth chart and overall targets.

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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Haven't seen this posted:


I've never seen a table like this. Trying to figure out if there's any significance to a leading receiver and how little production they have prior as this table illustrates. I'm not at all concerned however in this pass catching group. Having 6 legit pass catchers in Meyers, Agholor, Bourne, Smith, Henry, James White, it will all be about the QB making quick good decisions to the open man.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
Tonight Jacobi playing great and solidifying himself as the next foundational WR for the offense.

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Yes, Meyers will likely lead in targets, receptions and perhaps even yards.

This is good and bad news.

We're homies, so I guess we should think that Meyers is among the top 20 WR's in the league. I don't. And this is a passing league. We have uphill struggle to win as a running team in a passing league, especially with Meyers as our top WR.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Yes, Meyers will likely lead in targets, receptions and perhaps even yards.

This is good and bad news.

We're homies, so I guess we should think that Meyers is among the top 20 WR's in the league. I don't. And this is a passing league. We have uphill struggle to win as a running team in a passing league, especially with Meyers as our top WR.

What's wrong with Meyers compared to other past leading Patriot receivers who were unheralded yet good enough that the Pats were a top5 passing team for a long long time ?

One would think having seen the Patriots operate for so long it's not about pedigree, it's about on field performance. Do you also think JC Jackson is bad because he was undrafted ?
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
What's wrong with Meyers compared to other past leading Patriot receivers who were unheralded yet good enough that the Pats were a top5 passing team for a long long time ?

One would think having seen the Patriots operate for so long it's not about pedigree, it's about on field performance. Do you also think JC Jackson is bad because he was undrafted ?
So, compare Jones to Brady or Bledsoe.

Sure, we can always compare up and coming players to past greats. Perhaps, Olszewski is a good comparison to Edelman and Brown. At this point in his career, that seems reasonable. We'll wait and see.

With regard to Meyers, I don't think that he is a #1 WR or that he would be so on almost any passing team in contention. I recall having a player who had 911 in passing yards. We dumped him after that season. He just wasn't good enough. Maybe, Meyers will develop to be a star receiver. For now, given who we have, I am very glad to have him.

If Meyers is our star WR, we probably greatly overpaid for both Agholor and Bourne. For me, I will be greatly disappointed if paying what we did doesn't give us our two top WR's by the middle of the season, with Meyers as our #3. Of course, we really don't have a #4 who should get lots of reps.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
So, compare Jones to Brady or Bledsoe.

Sure, we can always compare up and coming players to past greats. Perhaps, Olszewski is a good comparison to Edelman and Brown. At this point in his career, that seems reasonable. We'll wait and see.

With regard to Meyers, I don't think that he is a #1 WR or that he would be so on almost any passing team in contention. I recall having a player who had 911 in passing yards. We dumped him after that season. He just wasn't good enough. Maybe, Meyers will develop to be a star receiver. For now, given who we have, I am very glad to have him.

If Meyers is our star WR, we probably greatly overpaid for both Agholor and Bourne. For me, I will be greatly disappointed if paying what we did doesn't give us our two top WR's by the middle of the season, with Meyers as our #3. Of course, we really don't have a #4 who should get lots of reps.

We definitely did overpay for Agholor but it's only 2 years plus they had a ton of cap. Bourne is the next Amendola, did you hate Danny's contract ?

Interesting you think Gunner could be the next Edelman, Welker, Brown but don't see Meyers as already being that guy.

I think it's absolutely possible for Meyers to be the best receiver yet have huge contracts to Agholor, Bourne, Henry, Bourne. Is this a big problem for you? It's concerning if how much a guy makes should dictate whether he shouldn't catch a lot of balls because it looks bad for optics....
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
Interesting you think Gunner could be the next Edelman, Welker, Brown but don't see Meyers as already being that guy.

Welker and Edelman were primarily returners in their first two years.. Eventually, they were top returners who became top receivers. Edelman took several years to become a top receiver, but that was fine. He was one of the best returners in the NFL.

Olszewski was primarily a returner for his first two years. At best, he is a JAG receiver at this point. But that is fine, since he is among the very best returners in the NFL. We can wait another year or two for him to be a solid receiver. I think that this is a similar path to that of Edelman.

Meyers is basically a #3 receiver who got more opportunity because of lack of competition. Comparing first two years, Meyers was much MORE valuable than Welker and Edelman. However, he is not a returner.

THE COMPARISONS
Two players who were primarily valuable as top returners in their early years, and developed into top receivers.

OLSZEWSKI
His path seems similar, although he had even fewer receptions than the comparison receivers. His path is Edelman's. Gunner needs to continue to be among the very best returners and he will have a job. We can wait for quality at WR, if it ever comes. In the meantime, he is an emergency #5 WR, active in every game.

MYERS
Myers is a receiver competing for reps. He isn't a returner. Myers came into camp competing with Bourne, Harry and Wilkerson for the #2 and #3 WR spots. So, sure Myers might be a receiver as good as Edelman or Welker someday. But his path is not theirs. In any year. Myers needs to be a top 3 contributor at WR, or he could lose his job.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Welker and Edelman were primarily returners in their first two years.. Eventually, they were top returners who became top receivers. Edelman took several years to become a top receiver, but that was fine. He was one of the best returners in the NFL.

Olszewski was primarily a returner for his first two years. At best, he is a JAG receiver at this point. But that is fine, since he is among the very best returners in the NFL. We can wait another year or two for him to be a solid receiver. I think that this is a similar path to that of Edelman.

Meyers is basically a #3 receiver who got more opportunity because of lack of competition. Comparing first two years, Meyers was much MORE valuable than Welker and Edelman. However, he is not a returner.

THE COMPARISONS
Two players who were primarily valuable as top returners in their early years, and developed into top receivers.

OLSZEWSKI
His path seems similar, although he had even fewer receptions than the comparison receivers. His path is Edelman's. Gunner needs to continue to be among the very best returners and he will have a job. We can wait for quality at WR, if it ever comes. In the meantime, he is an emergency #5 WR, active in every game.

MYERS
Myers is a receiver competing for reps. He isn't a returner. Myers came into camp competing with Bourne, Harry and Wilkerson for the #2 and #3 WR spots. So, sure Myers might be a receiver as good as Edelman or Welker someday. But his path is not theirs. In any year. Myers needs to be a top 3 contributor at WR, or he could lose his job.

Fair enough, you are very focused on punt returners who became good even though that wasn't Welker's path either. Meyers is already putting up amazing metrics as a lead WR. I guess it will take a full year of him being a thousand yard receiver until people get past the pedigree perception with him.

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Salsalife

On the Roster
Other Teams will focus on Myers as our top receiver. He will deserve the double team on third down, make Cam go to option 2 if he can even identify option 2?
 

jdlboot14

On the Game Day Roster
I'll keep saying that I stated this about Meyers right after we signed Bourne & Agholor. And I predicted production would be in that order too.
Meyers will get WR#1 attention. Bourne will produce once all starters & TE's draw attention. Agholor has yet to have 1 target, and I'm doubtful he'll earn his big contract. Then there's Gunner - who is gritty and may keep growing into a nice #4 role (especially once Mac is QB)
Harry seems like a waste of a roster spot, if he wasn't a 1st rounder, no one would ever consider him to make the team. He's not fast, lacks quickness, and scheme awareness, you have to have at least 1 to play here.
At this moment, I'd say we keep Wilkerson just because of his skill set, but also wouldn't be surprised to see a trade or cutdown vet come in.
 

Sicilian

Pro Bowl Player
Other Teams will focus on Myers as our top receiver. He will deserve the double team on third down, make Cam go to option 2 if he can even identify option 2?

If the TE's are healthy, this will be a much trickier decision for defenses, especially if it's 3rd and less than 5 (where the run is still a consistent option). It's important for Agholor to pan out, because if he's drawing safety attention deep, and you're double teaming Meyers as you say, then even in a big nickel you're getting a linebacker on at least one of Henry, Smith, or White. You bring up a good question on whether Cam will consistently recognize it, but those mismatches will be there.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
If the TE's are healthy, this will be a much trickier decision for defenses, especially if it's 3rd and less than 5 (where the run is still a consistent option). It's important for Agholor to pan out, because if he's drawing safety attention deep, and you're double teaming Meyers as you say, then even in a big nickel you're getting a linebacker on at least one of Henry, Smith, or White. You bring up a good question on whether Cam will consistently recognize it, but those mismatches will be there.

Absolutely. If they're healthy all year, can easily see Henry+Smith collectively catching over 100 catches this season.
 

jah

Owner Of A Tactical Coffee Shop For Men
PatsFans.com Supporter
So, compare Jones to Brady or Bledsoe.

Sure, we can always compare up and coming players to past greats. Perhaps, Olszewski is a good comparison to Edelman and Brown. At this point in his career, that seems reasonable. We'll wait and see.

With regard to Meyers, I don't think that he is a #1 WR or that he would be so on almost any passing team in contention. I recall having a player who had 911 in passing yards. We dumped him after that season. He just wasn't good enough. Maybe, Meyers will develop to be a star receiver. For now, given who we have, I am very glad to have him.

If Meyers is our star WR, we probably greatly overpaid for both Agholor and Bourne. For me, I will be greatly disappointed if paying what we did doesn't give us our two top WR's by the middle of the season, with Meyers as our #3. Of course, we really don't have a #4 who should get lots of reps.
At this particular moment, no, Meyers wouldn't be considered a #1 receiver on most teams. I think a lot of us just see way more potential than you do.

All I know is that when I watch Meyers play, I see someone who absolutely belongs on the field and has only ever improved as a pro over time with no sign of slowing his progress yet. In this context, I don't even think about the rest of the WR roster or how much money anyone makes because they have nothing to do with how good of a football player Meyers is.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
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I don't even think about the rest of the WR roster or how much money anyone makes because they have nothing to do with how good of a football player Meyers is.
When Belichick pays $16M a year ($23m guaranteed) for two WRs, it is does indeed make a statement about Myers. Myers is a solid #3.

Agholor is clearly being paid as a #1 receiver. If all we needed was a downfield threat, we would have signed a mid-level receiver as we have done in the past. $11M a year is serious money.

If Meyers was considered a clear #2, would Belichick really have guaranteed Bourne $7M ($5 AAV)? Given that we will be favoring the running game, and the TE's, that would make little sense for the #6 receiving target with Meyers is the #2, and the TE's and White as top targets.

LET'S BE CLEAR
I like Meyers. I think that he is a valuable #3. That being said, given Harry's situation, I could see us signing or trading for another receiver who MIGHT even compete with Myers for reps.

So, yes, I don't consider Myers as good as you do. I suspect that Belichick is closer to my position than yours. But, I get it. Many here think that since we had a really good receiver in Myers, there was no reason to pay Bourne what we did.
 
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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
At this particular moment, no, Meyers wouldn't be considered a #1 receiver on most teams. I think a lot of us just see way more potential than you do.

All I know is that when I watch Meyers play, I see someone who absolutely belongs on the field and has only ever improved as a pro over time with no sign of slowing his progress yet. In this context, I don't even think about the rest of the WR roster or how much money anyone makes because they have nothing to do with how good of a football player Meyers is.

None of the Pats guys were considered a bonafide #1 by other teams. Troy Brown, Welker, Edelman.... And who cares. Get 1000 yards receiving on a top5 passing offense while everyone else doesn't think you look the part of a #1 WR. Jacobi has the potential to produce like a great player.

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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
When Belichick pays $16M a year ($23m guaranteed) for two WRs, it is does indeed make a statement about Myers. Myers is a solid #3.

Agholor is clearly being paid as a #1 receiver. If all we needed was a downfield threat, we would have signed a mid-level receiver as we have done in the past. $11M a year is serious money.

If Meyers was considered a clear #2, would Belichick really have guaranteed Bourne $7M ($5 AAV)? Given that we will be favoring the running game, and the TE's, that would make little sense for the #6 receiving target with Meyers is the #2, and the TE's and White as top targets.

LET'S BE CLEAR
I like Meyers. I think that he is a valuable #3. That being said, given Harry's situation, I could see us signing or trading for another receiver who MIGHT even compete with Myers for reps.

So, yes, I don't consider Myers as good as you do. I suspect that Belichick is closer to my position than yours. But, I get it. Many here think that since we had a really good receiver in Myers, there was no reason to pay Bourne what we did.

This is really weird. Why are you so adamant Meyers is a #3 WR ? Just because of his pedigree. Look at what's actually happening on the field. Meyers is playing way more than Bourne. Bourne is a replacement for Amendola, not Edelman's snaps. Agholor is not the #1. In fact I think there's a good chance Agholor is only 4th in catches this year after Meyers, Henry, and Jonnu Smith (perhaps while leading in yards per catch).
 

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