J Jones agrees w/ Venecol on BB not relating w/ young generation

[Ivan]

Really thoughtful of Jones to give you a shout out like that. He usually just calls me.

 

[yukon cornelius]

want to know how coaches relate to players? they win

think andy reid is any more in it with his players than BB was? nope......but he has a team right now that is winning, so it works


sure, some young assistants helps.......but don't tell me we're better off with a clown like mcdaniel who "relates" to the players, yet his teams don't win crap when it counts (and won't)......you need a good football coach, and a GM who can put the right combination together......the "relating" to the players needs to come from the assistants, who also need to be the conduit back and forth to the top......

the issue is, BB seemed like he began to do too much on his own, and retreated into a circle of comfortability from his assistants.......you need assistants who can not only relate, but innovate, and push things to change......but you also need a HC that is confident enough to make the call when the call needs to be made

 

[203Pat]

The new generation of players and NIL money changed everything. We saw it even with Saban in college. The dictator way of ruling a team doesn't work anymore. Boomers have been in power a long time and are starting to trickle out of the workforce. They did things their way for a long time and Gen X really had to suck it up and deal with it. Millennials came along and would question things in the workplace as they did them. Gen Z on the other hand, flat out asks "Why?" and generally won't do something until they understand why they're being asked. In a lot of instances, I, as a millennial, applaud it but Boomers really hate the way Gen Z does things.

When it comes to the office or working at Starbucks, Gen Z may have to bend a bit but with big time college football and the NFL these kids already have money now and the "Toes on the line" mentality doesn't work anymore. They have a college coach who won't play them or who they don't like? They shop around for NIL deals and switch schools. You get drafted by an old school, tough guy coach? You force your way out of town to one of the numerous player's coach types.

The old generation doesn't want to hear but things are different now. It is what it is.

 

[HSanders]

by and large what is really needed is the right group of leaders in the lr. they are usually the coaches' conduits to what works for the team "relating" wise. the pats have had some good,solid leadership here and there from players recently (dmac,slater) but imo haven't had that core group of players who held everyone accountable like they used to back in the day jules,tb,mayo,hightower,bruschi,vrabel,harrison,willie mac. that's more what has hurt them the past few years imo.

 

[ahmed]

Blah blah blah.

It all comes down to winning. If you win players will listen to you. If you lose they will eventually tune you out. The rest is just noise.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Really thoughtful of Jones to give you a shout out like that. He usually just calls me.

It's like Sweet Feet giving shout-outs to fnordcircle.

 

[venecol]

Blah blah blah.

It all comes down to winning. If you win players will listen to you. If you lose they will eventually tune you out. The rest is just noise.

This makes no sense. Wins don't magically come w/o the players.

Players win games.
For players to win there needs to be talent and be motivated by good coaching.
Even talented players w/o good motivation /coaching will lose games.

I think a prime example is DeMeco Ryans, rookie HC, w/ a rookie QB and a bunch of young talented players. He got them to buy into whatever he was saying to get them motivated. They performed above expectations. Campbell is doing the same in DET. So is McDaniel in MIA, etc. Before anyone comes in w/ "but they didn't win it all," no ****. Winning a SB is ****ing hard. Just ask Shannahan. There can be only one.

 

[Ivan]

It's like Sweet Feet giving shout-outs to fnordcircle.

Where did fnord disappear to?

 

[VrabelJr]

Where did fnord disappear to?

I believe he grew tired of the loudest people on this forum also being the least nuanced and most idiotic. I won’t name names but most of them are still around but we keep losing people like fnord and pfk

 

[venecol]

I believe he grew tired of the loudest people on this forum also being the least nuanced and most idiotic. I won’t name names but most of them are still around but we keep losing people like fnord and pfk

Actually fnord got tired of assholes like you. Sorry for naming names.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Been telling you guys. J Jones joins Jules, Gronk, Tedy, Ty, Mayo and many other ex-Pats all saying the same thing about this younger generation.

Patriots Veteran Agrees With Common Bill Belichick Narrative

Patriots cornerback Jonathan Jones chimed in on the doubt in Bill Belichick's ability to relate to younger players coming up in the NFL.

nesn.com

I think what it really says is the Mayo is an exceptional communicator, with credibility as a former 1st round pick and top LB. BB was a good communicator with players, better than most coaches, but Mayo is unusual. Not a criticism of Belichick.

 

[Triumph]

I think what it really says is the Mayo is an exceptional communicator, with credibility as a former 1st round pick and top LB. BB was a good communicator with players, better than most coaches, but Mayo is unusual. Not a criticism of Belichick.

I will be glad when Mayo actually does something.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Belichick might be one of the greatest football minds ever, but he absolutely could be a hard-ass. Benching Butler might have cost another ring, and benching RBs that fumble even when we need them to play still rankles with me. It's not like anyone fumbles on purpose - yell at them and then put them back in. Not to mention him being unreasonable about players being a bit late because of a massive snow storm or a flight cancellation.
I'm not saying there aren't some players where a drill-sergeant style might not work best, but those are increasingly rare. Players are richer and more entitled and have better free agency terms than they used to. Have to bow to reality and play nicer with them than in the past. It's notable that every coach in the Belichick tree has flamed out as head coach - the leadership style they learned here seems not to work elsewhere.

 

[Guts]

Nah ... a real man like me ... no salt ... no lime ... no tequila face.

Then again you're an alien

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Not saying there's no element to this, but team seemed to be playing pretty hard for Bill. No matter whether they liked him or not or "related" to him, the motivation aspect seemed pretty well taken care of even in a 4-13 year by my eyes. The issue is that the players sucked, and BB picked those players.

Now, maybe BB was picking form a smaller pool of players because he knew he needed guys that would respond to his style. That could be an indirect application of this "relate" to players. But honestly, it just didn't seem to have any impact on the guys on the team in my eyes.

 

[venecol]

Not saying there's no element to this, but team seemed to be playing pretty hard for Bill. No matter whether they liked him or not or "related" to him, the motivation aspect seemed pretty well taken care of even in a 4-13 year by my eyes. The issue is that the players sucked, and BB picked those players.

Now, maybe BB was picking form a smaller pool of players because he knew he needed guys that would respond to his style. That could be an indirect application of this "relate" to players. But honestly, it just didn't seem to have any impact on the guys on the team in my eyes.

Except for when all the reports come out on the dysfunction with the coaches and the players. That was hardly inspiring from a Belichick coached team.

Of course there were many other reasons for going 4-13 like you stated, but I choose to believe all the Patriot ex-players saying this is an issue. They would know.

 

[ahmed]

This makes no sense. Wins don't magically come w/o the players.

Players win games.
For players to win there needs to be talent and be motivated by good coaching.
Even talented players w/o good motivation /coaching will lose games.

I think a prime example is DeMeco Ryans, rookie HC, w/ a rookie QB and a bunch of young talented players. He got them to buy into whatever he was saying to get them motivated. They performed above expectations. Campbell is doing the same in DET. So is McDaniel in MIA, etc. Before anyone comes in w/ "but they didn't win it all," no ****. Winning a SB is ****ing hard. Just ask Shannahan. There can be only one.

My point is nobody complained until we stopped winning. When a team is winning nobody cares about the how. When you start losing everyone starts to reflect on the why.

 

[lancerman]

My point is nobody complained until we stopped winning. When a team is winning nobody cares about the how. When you start losing everyone starts to reflect on the why.

I guess the question that is worth asking is did we make mistakes while we were winning that weren't addressed because of the result and then later led to the losing? I think there is a valid argument that the answer is yes. Bill's coach probably did end up alienating key players like Brady and Gronk who wanted to get away from things here which sped up the decline. The constant draft misses that we glossed over from 2014-2017 because we were winning added up. Things like not committing to players that were making big contributions like Cooks eventually caught up when we couldn't adequately replace them. I always thought it was weird that the only big free agents the Pats could get were guys who were down in the dumps and trying to ressurect their career on a good team like Revis in 2014 who clearly wanted to come here, make a statement, and get a payday somewhere else. Meanwhile star players had no problem running to Denver when Manning was there or the Chiefs now. I have to think the reputation that New England is a hard place to play and Bill will coldly move on as soon the mental math in his head justifies it is not player friendly to all the preemium talent a winning dynasty should have attracted.

Like you can't question all that when we are winning, but now you can say "did that stop us from winning more and did that speed up the end of the run". Maybe it didn't. But I think it's pretty obvious we were willing to look past some flaws because of the end result.

 

[jimnance]

Got a lotta respect/ admiration for JonJones, as all Pats fans should.
He is very much in the mold of Bruschi, Vrabel, Mayo, Rodney,Jules.
Old -school, tough as nails.
I believe what he says. It's pretty obvious.
I still also have great respect/admiration for BB as well, though the last 4 years he f'd up majorly. One of Bill's strengths always was his ability to adapt. He lost that the last few years.
And sadly, he hurt the team.Which is the one thing I know he never wanted to do.
He's still the GOAT, imo. But his reputation has fo' sho taken a big hit last few years. None bigger than the OC fiasco of 2022.

 

[203Pat]

My point is nobody complained until we stopped winning. When a team is winning nobody cares about the how. When you start losing everyone starts to reflect on the why.

Brady didn't seem to love it in Tom vs Time and Gronk was on the verge of tears talking about how tough it was to play here and how it took the fun out of the game and it's why he retired.