Its early but Patriots will regret not taking Ladd Mcconkey

[stinkypete]

McConkey wax the guy I was hoping for. Hopefully Polk works out.

McConkey was my favorite WR in our pick range, but I worried about being seduced by the promise of his "prototypical Patriot" mold. It's a new era, and I am ok moving away from the twitchy, undersized white guy model.

 

[Wozzy]

Thornton's problems have been as much about KEEPING those pads on, as they have been what he does when they are. Definitely give him a chance in a new system with a competent deep ball QB, but he already missed time in mini-camp, so he's got to consistently get on the field for most of training camp first.

What I saw last season and prior, when I was visiting camp or watching games, very often was Thornton running open behind the defense with no possibility of the ball coming his way. Even when blocking was good, the QB play wasn’t… or vice versa.

It will be nice if the offense can attack defenses vertically for once and he can stay healthy.

 

[Wozzy]

McConkey was my favorite WR in our pick range, but I worried about being seduced by the promise of his "prototypical Patriot" mold. It's a new era, and I am ok moving away from the twitchy, undersized white guy model.

Ricky Pearsall who the 49ers took will be a beast also if he can translate his game to the pros. He and McConkey were my favorite slot prospects with Christian McCaffrey’s younger brother bringing up the rear.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Agility/mobility or separation is plainly visible in shuttle and cone drills, if someone doesn’t participate in them.. it’s just guessing to suggest they don’t have mobility.

It's certainly not determinative, but it changes the evaluation process. Maybe a guy does perform the drill in a workout for team, maybe not, so you have to look at other things. I get why a player might skip it, but to say that it doesn't matter by citing a bunch of successful NFL players who either skipped or sucked at that particular drill doesn't convince me that the drill results or lack thereof can be discarded, such as in the case of Polk.

Polk and Baler were really successful in college, had a lot of production. We’ll see how it translates to the pros but they look shifty and mobile based on college results. We’ll see, there’s an element of mystery there.

Yes, I agree. To me, Polk looks slow, but as I said earlier, I am not an NFL-tier evaluator of talent. He might be great and I hope he is. But when I hear that Polk is a great separator and likely to remain one based on his college resume, I am unconvinced, because the level of play in the NFL is much higher. Somehow this offends some people, and I'm not sure why, because all of us have seen example after example of great and good college players who failed in the NFL.

 

[Wozzy]

It's certainly not determinative, but it changes the evaluation process. Maybe a guy does perform the drill in a workout for team, maybe not, so you have to look at other things. I get why a player might skip it, but to say that it doesn't matter by citing a bunch of successful NFL players who either skipped or sucked at that particular drill doesn't convince me that the drill results or lack thereof can be discarded, such as in the case of Polk.

I’d prefer all prospects engage in every measurable, I want to see them compete. There’s also the process of many players having two chances to get it right. Aren’t feeling it at the combine, wait until your pro day and do it on your home field.

If a prospect doesn’t do the drill it’s a guess.

Yes, I agree. To me, Polk looks slow, but as I said earlier, I am not an NFL-tier evaluator of talent. He might be great and I hope he is. But when I hear that Polk is a great separator and likely to remain one based on his college resume, I am unconvinced, because the level of play in the NFL is much higher. Somehow this offends some people, and I'm not sure why, because all of us have seen example after example of great and good college players who failed in the NFL.

Polk looks like Baker looks like Osborn looks like Juju… they’re all very similar. Juju has good agility, we’ll have to wait to find out with the rookies.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This reminds me of the bizarre Andy Isabella hype in 2018.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Thanks, Ms. Cleo. Your opinions are noted.

You seem to forget that the only reason Reagor saw the field last year was because of injuries to Bolden, Marcus Jones and Bourne.

Still had more yards that Thornton.

Thornton brings nothing except speed in a straight line. Reagor as value as a special team player, Thornton doesn’t.

Reagor brings more value to the team as the 6th receiver than Thornton and it’s not even close.

 

[JohnJH]

Mcconkey is a slot receiver, and they are already set at that spot with Douglas and Bourne, they needed WR’s that can play outside the hashes.

We have a smilar problem on the OL, too many guards, and except for Onwenu (who's best fit is at RG), we don't have an established OT, let a lone 2. We have guys that can play the slot (as you've stated). We need much more than that.

 

[TomPatriot]

I liked McConkey but it’s way early. Big difference between OTAs and then pads, preseason and then the season. Longgggg way to go..

 

[Grogan14]

I liked McConkey but it’s way early. Big difference between OTAs and then pads, preseason and then the season. Longgggg way to go..

I agree with you that it is very early.
I just never understood why they passed on Mcconkey for Polk. I like Polk but
Mcconkey has way more upside.

 

[scott99]

Separation in college does not guarantee separation in the NFL. The NFL has bigger, stronger, quicker, faster and more talented players. Polk ran a pedestrian 4.52s 40 and declined to participate in the 7 cone and shuttle (very telling).

During OTAs he looked slow to me, but I am not an NFL evaluator. Still, I have not seen a quote from any NFL commentator (former scout, player, or coach) saying that Polk was getting good separation during OTAs or minicamp. If you have some, I would like to see them, because I looked and found none.

Interesting. Outside of college highlights, which rookie ever has proven they can get NFL separation before even taking an NFL snap ? Which NFL evaluators sit around measuring separation of rookie WRs during the OTAs or minicamp and report on them ? I’ll go even further, which evaluators where saying Polk specifically wasn’t getting separation ? I will say that one day in the OTAs/mimicamps, people were saying Pat’s receivers weren’t getting separation, but that includes WRs with better straight line speed than Polk.

I will also say, that several Pat’s reporters have stated Polk was the best Pat’s receiver in the minicamp.

 

[scott99]

And getting back to speed/separation, I’m asking you Force Zero, are you basing your thoughts on his 40 time alone ? Because I watched every Washington game this year, because my eyes were on Michael Penix as a possible Pat’s QB. I saw him get plenty of separation during the season and making some great catches on contested UNDERTHROWN passes. You would think that with Penix’s arm, that wouldn’t happen, but it did.

Also, I presented the 40 times for guys who ran similar to slower 40 times than Polk, and they’ve gotten plenty of separation during their careers. I see a lot of Keenan Allen in Polk, and read that Allen ran a 4.71 at his Pro Day. Like I’ve said, I’ve watched Polk a lot, like Allen & and our old slow poke pal Jacoby Meyers, he just gets open.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

Interesting. Outside of college highlights, which rookie ever has proven they can get NFL separation before even taking an NFL snap ?

Are you claiming I said a rookie could prove that? I didn’t, so I am under no obligation to defend a position I didn’t take.

Which NFL evaluators sit around measuring separation of rookie WRs during the OTAs or minicamp and report on them ?

If coaches present aren’t doing that (along with evaluating receivers across many criteria), it’s a dereliction of duty. Former players, scouts and coaches sometimes give their opinions to reporters.

I’ll go even further, which evaluators where saying Polk specifically wasn’t getting separation ?

I never claimed anyone said that. What I said is that if a player can separate in college, that does not mean we can declare him a “good separator” in the NFL, which is exactly what another poster claimed. That shouldn’t be controversial, and I don’t understand why people are making a fuss over it. Whether Polk is able to carry that ability forward into the NFL remains to be seen.

I will say that one day in the OTAs/mimicamps, people were saying Pat’s receivers weren’t getting separation, but that includes WRs with better straight line speed than Polk.

I heard that report too, and it’s also not controversial to say many factors go into a receiver’s ability to separate. Good measurables such as the 40, 3 cone and shuttle that are in alignment with successful receivers at a position are positive indicators, but don’t guarantee success. We all know this, and honestly I don’t know why I have to say it.

The fact that Polk declined to perform some of the agility tests is telling and was certainly a strategic decision. It indicates he would perform below average, otherwise he would have done them. If anyone can think of another reason, I’m happy to consider it.

I will also say, that several Pat’s reporters have stated Polk was the best Pat’s receiver in the minicamp.

I heard that as well. I want Polk to succeed. From the tape I saw, he looked slow, but as I said, I am not an expert evaluator, and even experts get things wrong. We will see.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Reminder that the Pats traded down from pick 34 to 37 in exchange for moving pick 137 up to 110. Then with picks 37 and 110 they took both Polk and also Javon Baker. So it’s not whether McConkey is better than Polk, but whether McConkey alone is better than both Polk and Baker.

Idk how good any of these guys will be but Ill always take the 1 one stud over 2 serviceable WR's. If that's how it turns out.

 

[Brick27]

Is the cut and dry take of McConkey “just” being a slot because he is white? Clearly it isn’t from actually watching him play and seeing the potential with his makeup and range of skill set.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

And getting back to speed/separation, I’m asking you Force Zero, are you basing your thoughts on his 40 time alone ? Because I watched every Washington game this year, because my eyes were on Michael Penix as a possible Pat’s QB. I saw him get plenty of separation during the season and making some great catches on contested UNDERTHROWN passes. You would think that with Penix’s arm, that wouldn’t happen, but it did.

No, not on 40 time alone, but it’s probably safe to say he’s not going to run away from CBs, unlike Thornton. There are many ways to get open. My point here and in my other post is that we have to wait and see if his separation ability translates to the NFL, where players are bigger, faster, stronger, quicker and more talented than in college. He has intangibles that will carry forward: football IQ, drive, work ethic, toughness and competitiveness. Those can turn an average player into a great one.

Also, I presented the 40 times for guys who ran similar to slower 40 times than Polk, and they’ve gotten plenty of separation during their careers. I see a lot of Keenan Allen in Polk, and read that Allen ran a 4.71 at his Pro Day. Like I’ve said, I’ve watched Polk a lot, like Allen & and our old slow poke pal Jacoby Meyers, he just gets open.

I really hope he succeeds beyond all expectations. But we’ll have to wait for the real competition to begin to know if he’s a hit. Let’s hope he’s a home run.

 

[1960Pats]

Maybe if he coats those tiny toddler mitts with pine tar

That helped correct Jerry Rice's dropsies.

 

[1960Pats]

Does Belichick care or pay attention to measurables? Enough to rattle of a player's shuttle time 14 years later...

“It’s hard to really compare anybody to Branch,” Belichick said Sunday morning before practice. “Branch had a rare quickness. I mean, what’d he run, like a three-seven short-shuttle? You just don’t see that. Deion was very, very quick and very smart. I’m not saying there aren’t other smart receivers, but Deion was really a smart receiver and very, very quick. We’ve had quick guys like Troy Brown, and Julian Edelman, and Wes Welker, guys like that. But it wasn’t Deion, they didn’t have Deion’s kind of quickness.” - BB

www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2016/08/10/bill-belichick-no-patriots-receiver-was-as-quick-as-deion-branch

People arguing against measurables are similar to flat earthers, they’re arguing against science. It's absurd... and even the players who buck the trend and make it despite being average (Malcolm Butler), they still don't have bad measurables.

I think some measurables are probably better than others. For instance, I've never been a big fan of hand size for a WR, which is getting a lot of play in this thread. There are probably plenty of great WRs with less than huge hands.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I agree with you that it is very early.
I just never understood why they passed on Mcconkey for Polk. I like Polk but
Mcconkey has way more upside.

Sam, it’s very clear why the passed on McConkey, he’s a slot receiver, and they have multiple slot receivers. Not only do they have Doiglassand Bourne at slot, but they can put Antonio Gibson there if they need to. What they needed was WR’s who can contribute outside the hashes and downfield. You need your receiving corps to be able to threaten and produce in all 3 areas of the field, wide, deep, and over the middle, not just over the middle.

 

[PatsFan2]

And getting back to speed/separation, I’m asking you Force Zero, are you basing your thoughts on his 40 time alone ? Because I watched every Washington game this year, because my eyes were on Michael Penix as a possible Pat’s QB. I saw him get plenty of separation during the season and making some great catches on contested UNDERTHROWN passes. You would think that with Penix’s arm, that wouldn’t happen, but it did.

Also, I presented the 40 times for guys who ran similar to slower 40 times than Polk, and they’ve gotten plenty of separation during their careers. I see a lot of Keenan Allen in Polk, and read that Allen ran a 4.71 at his Pro Day. Like I’ve said, I’ve watched Polk a lot, like Allen & and our old slow poke pal Jacoby Meyers, he just gets open.

Excellent post: every time I saw Polk last year he's always catching passes deep down the football field.