"It's a business" blaaaaaaaaaah!

[Willie55]

I want two of my favorite players back and I am having a hard time
understanding why they have to go.

It's called the salary cap.

As you can see by my name, Willie is my favorite player. I would also love to see him back and retire a Patriot, but I also realize the economics of the situation.

 

[JR4]

I can't believe what I am hearing from some of the fans here.

You guys seem to think if Willie and Adam are gone it's OK if the team keeps winning.
I can agree with that
If PATs had to pay excessively I could see letting them go.

But Pats can pay a resonable amout to get it done and can keep on winning
and make those of us fans who regard Willie and Adam as very special
parts of the PATs family also happy in the process.

Make excusses for letting these guys walk .... you guys who have this
attitude can sit there when team chemstry is shot to hell can cry in your
beer.

Maybe that's it. Winning superbowls now seems easy .... so easy that
fans forget that it was the Players that made it happen ... it was the
chemistry of team that was responsible.

By forgetting that many here think ... Adam and Willie ... are just expendable.

Once again ... if their skills were in decline ... I would have no argument
... that is not the case.

When these two guys who we have seen do it over and over are gone
I will be very unhappy. Unhappy because I will feel that
two very important parts of my team are gone.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I am getting tired of this response as to why
we fans are losing our favorite players Willie and Adam.

Sure we know it is a business. But the Patriots business does
well because it's fans are happy.
Letting Adam and Willies doesn't make many of us Fans happy at all.

!

Unfortunately, it is a business as well as a sport. If you want sentimentality, you need only look at the 49ers at the beginning of the salary cap era. They kept their old veterans with the enormous cap numbers rather than cut them and try to resign at a lower cap number (See Willie m. for example). As a result they put themselves in cap h*ll from which they still haven't recovered.
Unfortunately in business, sometimes you have to make tough and unpopular decisions for the greater good, which is hoping to raise another Lombardi trophy. Whose track record would you trust, Kraft, Coach Bill and Pioli or say the Cardinals or Lions brain trust??? I'll give the Pats front office the benefit of the doubt on these moves....

Just my $0.02,

 

[maverick4]

re

I can't believe what I am hearing from some of the fans here.

You guys seem to think if Willie and Adam is OK is the team keeps winning.
I can agree with that
If PATs had to pay excessively I could see letting them go.

But Pats can pay a resonable amout to get it done and can keep on winning
and make those of us fans who regard Willie and Adam as very special
parts of the PATs family also happy in the process.

Make excusses for letting these guys walk .... you guys who have this
attitude can sit there when team chemstry is shot to hell can cry in your
beer.

Maybe that's it. Winning superbowls now seems easy .... so easy that
fans forget that it was the Players that made it happen ... it was the
chemistry of team that was responsible.

By forgetting that many here think ... Adam and Willie ... are just expendable.

Once again ... if their skills were in decline ... I would have no argument
... that is not the case.

When these two guys who we have seen do it over and over are gone
I will be very unhappy. Unhappy because I will feel that
two very important parts of my team are gone.

Do you want some more cheese with that whine? I'm surprised there are still Pats fans who still don't understand salary cap and putting talent together. The Patriots win because they spend every dollar wisely. Every year they try to field the best 53 person team. This means never over-paying for any player above his value. Also, how can you AGREE that all is well if the Pats keep winning, yet still try to defend your point?

If we followed your strategy, the Pats would never have let go of Chris Slade, Drew Bledsoe, Ty Law, Milloy, and a bunch of other players as well who were fan favorites. The Pats would never have stuck with an unknown QB named Tom Brady, or tried to replace Milloy with Rodney Harrison.

Also, I think your letter is premature. Free agency hasn't started yet, and I don't know what you're complaining about. The Pats HAD to cut Willie and even he knew it was a dummy year, and also Adam's contract ran out. The last time I checked, neither of them have signed elsewhere.

So let's wait a month before talking about this. Nothing has happened yet. I'll repeat that: nothing has even happened yet.

.

 

[mgteich]

Would you have franchised Adam and paid $3.2M? He would certainly have no reason to accept less?

Would you have paid Willie the $3.5M signing bonus?

There are no other questions.

I can't believe what I am hearing from some of the fans here.

You guys seem to think if Willie and Adam are gone it's OK if the team keeps winning.
I can agree with that
If PATs had to pay excessively I could see letting them go.

But Pats can pay a resonable amout to get it done and can keep on winning
and make those of us fans who regard Willie and Adam as very special
parts of the PATs family also happy in the process.

Make excusses for letting these guys walk .... you guys who have this
attitude can sit there when team chemstry is shot to hell can cry in your
beer.

Maybe that's it. Winning superbowls now seems easy .... so easy that
fans forget that it was the Players that made it happen ... it was the
chemistry of team that was responsible.

By forgetting that many here think ... Adam and Willie ... are just expendable.

Once again ... if their skills were in decline ... I would have no argument
... that is not the case.

When these two guys who we have seen do it over and over are gone
I will be very unhappy. Unhappy because I will feel that
two very important parts of my team are gone.

 

[marty]

I can't believe what I am hearing from some of the fans here.

You guys seem to think if Willie and Adam is OK is the team keeps winning.
I can agree with that
If PATs had to pay excessively I could see letting them go.

But Pats can pay a resonable amout to get it done and can keep on winning
and make those of us fans who regard Willie and Adam as very special
parts of the PATs family also happy in the process.

Make excusses for letting these guys walk .... you guys who have this
attitude can sit there when team chemstry is shot to hell can cry in your
beer.

Maybe that's it. Winning superbowls now seems easy .... so easy that
fans forget that it was the Players that made it happen ... it was the
chemistry of team that was responsible.

By forgetting that many here think ... Adam and Willie ... are just expendable.

Once again ... if their skills were in decline ... I would have no argument
... that is not the case.

When these two guys who we have seen do it over and over are gone
I will be very unhappy. Unhappy because I will feel that
two very important parts of my team are gone.

We're looking at it in a practical way. As sarge said, Adam was offered a deal that keeps him as the highest paid kicker. If he chooses to go to some team ala Dallas that may offer him crazy money, do you want a knee-jerk emotional reaction from BB/Kraft? Same with Willie, I'm sure he'll be offered a reasonable contract, but if he goes to some other team desperate for his talents, then we'll move on, and be forever grateful for all that Willie has done for us. As many posters have already said, let's just chill and see how this plays out. I have a great deal of respect for how the Pats have used the cap and played evenhandedly with our team.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

But Pats can pay a resonable amout to get it done and can keep on winning
and make those of us fans who regard Willie and Adam as very special
parts of the PATs family also happy in the process.

I agree with you, that these are two very special parts of the Patriots Family. But, you make it sound like the Patriots just turned their back on Willie and Adam and said, "we just don't want you anymore."

Come on... they already made AV an offer that would continue to make him the highest paid kicker in the game. HE said, 'let me see what other offers are out there'. That's his decision, not the Patriots. Send Adam your email about you not being happy.

Willie, and everybody else knew this year was the dummy year that kept him on the team last year. He and everybody knew he wouldn't be hitting this payday. I'm hopeful that we keep Willie until he retires, but we'll just have to see how both Willie and the Patriots handle it. It's too soon to tell.

 

[Michigan Dave]

This has to be the worst thread topic ever! Wow. It is a business, and the Patriots' business is winning. We all have favorite players. But, the bottom line is that I would much rather watch the Patriots as a team hoist another Lombardi trophy in February than watch a team of favorite players lose in round 1 or earlier. The Patriots would absolutely LOVE to keep these guys, but they are smart enough not to overpay for them. That is the sign that they are doing things right. You don't want to buy a hat because of it? That's cool. I'll buy three. Division Champs. AFC Champs. Super Bowl Champs.

 

[smg93]

The Patriots win because they spend every dollar wisely. Every year they try to field the best 53 person team.

Exactly.

Interesting point about losing players like Slade, Milloy, Law, Bledsoe, etc. How many of these stars that BB and Pioli have let go, have won Superbowls since 2001? Did any of them go to the Bucs(they won in 2002 right?) or the Steelers?

 

[maverick4]

re

JR, as to your point about sticking with what works... What do you mean by that?

Do you mean that after the Pats made it to the '96 superbowl, they should have kept that team?

Or do you mean the Pats should have kept the 2001 superbowl winning team?

Or do you mean the Pats should have kept the 2003 and 2004 superbowl teams?

My point is, every single Pats team has been different.

There is a lot of sentimental value to keeping Willie and Adam, and I know the Pats will make an effort to keep them. BUT, if a Dallas or Cleveland want to over-pay for a 34 and 33 year old, I think everyone will understand with no hard feelings.

.

 

[JR4]

continue[/u] to make him the highest paid kicker in the game..

Yes but as Miguel point out, that offer was made but there was no
guaranteed money in the offer. Hardly an offer a guys who is looking for
some security would sign.

Maybe this is a little premature. But now is when they are making
decisions. I doubt what any of us says makes any difference in how
they make their decisions but who knows .... maybe they'll make a little
better offer to Adam and Willie .... just for me.

NEM use to write letters and said it did some good.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Yes but as Miguel point out, that offer was made but there was no
guaranteed money in the offer. Hardly an offer a guys who is looking for
some security would sign.

Maybe this is a little premature. But now is when they are making
decisions. I doubt what any of us says makes any difference in how
they make their decisions but who knows .... maybe they'll make a little
better offer to Adam and Willie .... just for me.

NEM use to write letters and said it did some good.

Yes, indeed NEM's letters did do NEM some good.

 

[maverick4]

maybe they'll make a little
better offer to Adam and Willie .... just for me.

I hope not. I hope they listen to what T-Shirt said. They should set a value on what they're willing to pay, try to get them to come back, and not overpay due to sentimental feelings.

Overpaying for sentimental reasons will end up hurting the team, as so many other people have already pointed out in this thread.

.

 

[marty]

NEM use to write letters and said it did some good.

NEM also said he got phone calls from Charlie too!!!

 

[JR4]

JR, as to your point about sticking with what works... What do you mean by that?

Do you mean that after the Pats made it to the '96 superbowl, they should have kept that team?

Or do you mean the Pats should have kept the 2001 superbowl winning team?

Or do you mean the Pats should have kept the 2003 and 2004 superbowl teams?

My point is, every single Pats team has been different.

There is a lot of sentimental value to keeping Willie and Adam, and I know the Pats will make an effort to keep them. BUT, if a Dallas or Cleveland want to over-pay for a 34 and 33 year old, I think everyone will understand with no hard feelings.

.

What I meant was there are players that are doing the job at their
position. That works.
There are positions that are adaquate but needs improvement.
IMO, Adam and Willie are at that high level and they bring good
chemistry. That Works.

 

[dhamz]

It isn't very complicated. The system dictates that every team has to choose who it keeps and who it lets go. You simply can't keep everyone. If they keep Willie and Adam at any price the fact is that they can't keep other guys.

 

[Michigan Dave]

I hope not. I hope they listen to what T-Shirt said. They should set a value on what they're willing to pay, try to get them to come back, and not overpay due to sentimental feelings.

Overpaying for sentimental reasons will end up hurting the team, as so many other people have already pointed out in this thread.

.

Exactly. The Patriots are successful because their business model is similar to that of a high level company in the real world. They do a cost-analysis and assign a value to each position. Probably in the top percent of market-competitive wages per position, though I haven't seen the breakdown compared to the rest of the league. That they won't break the bank and ruin the structure of their organization because they have someone that they like is reason #1 for their success. No matter how much my employer digs me, and no matter how well I'm performing, if I receive an offer from another company way outside of our salary structure, they'll let me walk. It's good business.

 

[smg93]

I actually like this thread because it reminds me somewhat of those people who fell in love with Netscape stock. It made them so much paper profit that they forgot to sell. Of course now they're stuck with stock certificates. As they say, it's the most expensive wall paper money can buy.

 

[sarge]

If PATs had to pay excessively I could see letting them go.

No, actually you are proving the oposite.

The Pats have offered Adam a contract that would keep him the highest paid kicker in the game and he still wants to test the waters in free agency.

So your statement above is not true at all! It seems you can't see letting Adam go even when he turns down more money then any Kicker in the league makes!

 

[JR4]

No, actually you are proving the oposite.

The Pats have offered Adam a contract that would keep him the highest paid kicker in the game and he still wants to test the waters in free agency.

So your statement above is not true at all! It seems you can't see letting Adam go even when he turns down more money then any Kicker in the league makes!

I commented on this before. Miguel pointed out that the offer the PATs
made and which you are refering to, did not have any guaranteed money.
Adam wants a muliple year deal with security .....guaranteed money.

BTW, making Adam the highest paid kicker does not mean they would
have to pay excessively.