It Looks Like No Long term Deal between Pats and Welker

[MoLewisrocks]

Please explain the difference between franchise tagging 'in good faith' and not in good faith.
I was not under the impression that there was any obligation assumed in tagging a player that you will then pay him whatever he asks for.

There isn't. However, under the terms of the CBA you are required to negotiate in good faith with any player you tender in an effort to get a deal done. Clearly it doesn't sound like anything remotely like that happened here if team sources are telling Curran they decided last fall that they would go year to year with Welker. And we know from multiple media reports that there has been little to no discussion between the sides or movement beyond downward by the team (on guaranteed money per Welker) since the tag was placed in March.

Remember, the tag was intended to be a place holder, intended to give teams time to get a deal done with a franchise caliber player. It was never intended to be a means to simply restrict a player from departing a team unwilling to sign him to a long term deal. Although increasingly teams have appeared to use it to that end.

It's also technically against the rules to tag a player specifically to trade him. However in all these cases unless a player files a grievance they've let it go. Usually when it comes to that point the player just wants out and while the tag may limit his compensation to some extent because of the compensation the trade necessitates, he's getting his long term deal from a team who wants him.

Section 8. Good Faith Negotiation:
(a) In addition to complying with specific provisions in this Agreement, any Club, any player, and any player agent or contract advisor engaged in negotiations for a Player Contract (including any Club extending, and any player receiving, a Required Tender) is under an obligation to negotiate in good faith.

 

[ausbacker]

The worst case scenario here was that they give Welker a ton of guaranteed money, he bombs either of the next two seasons, and they take on a ton of dead money to cut him. I don't blame them for wanting to completely avoid that.

86 receptions 848 yards 7 touchdowns. That's Welkers worst season in New England and after an ACL reconstruction. On some teams, that's their best receiver.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't think they care at all about looking like idiots (not that i think they would). They offered him a 2-3 contract at a certain amount of guaranteed money. He's gambling that they he'll make out better in free agency plus the franchise year. No one was held hostage here, there are contract negotiations for some player every year. Your user name is a knock on a player that was paid too much and helped destroy our business options, because the owner loved him.

The team has to do what's best for the team in the future. Many young players will come up for contract that will affect our long term future. Do we only negotiate with players we don't like and give a blank check to the popular ones? Welker could have had more security but didn't like the money, guaranteed dough or length compared to 9.5 million and freedom next year.

I thought the pats looked like jerks to resign Branch after he basically held us hostage and ruined our receiver corps for a year. they don't. they needed a receiver who knew the system, he needed a job.

We will never run out of players we love that we simply have to pay very long term. If we do, for everyone, we will be back where we were pre Belichick, with the worst contract situation in football (according to Buschbaum article that's probably gone).

They didn't offer him a 3 year contract this season. They offered him a two year contract extension last fall and apparently that wasn't on the table this spring, at least not with the same guaranteed money. I know why, and I've explained it several times. Absent a 3rd year (the last year of his prior deal) for amortization purposes, they weren't even willing to pay him $16M over 2 years. What they were really offering him last fall was 3 years (including last year) at $18.5M or a little over $6M per.

Then he went out and put up record numbers. If he does so again they're choices will be paying at least $21 over 2 years or watching him walk to a competitor where they will have to hope they are not defending him twice a year, the underlying reason they traded for him in 2007.

And FWIW Bledsoe didn't destroy any business options because that 10 year $100M deal he signed only guaranteed him $10M and after two seasons they traded him for a first round pick while only taking a $6M dead cap hit. Had he remained he might have destroyed their plans for winning a Lombardi, but that had nothing to do with his contract. That had to do with his skillset being a poor fit for the system.

 

[mgteich]

There is a lot of talking of us letting Welker walk in 2013 to save face. I don't think this is reasonable.

If Welker is worth $11.5M next, we should, and I think we will franchise him. The fact that we didn't give him that this year matters not. The risk will be taken by Welker.

However, it is more likely that we need the tag for someone else or that Welker will not be deemed to be worth $11.M.

 

[naF staP]

What a joke!! Wes Welker had a great season last season, his contract season... fulfilling a contract that he outperformed without saying a peep. Welker looked faster then ever last year, certainly doesn't give any indication that he is slowing down. Yet the dude gets a low ball short term slap in the face offer!!

What a great message you send other players on the team or players looking to come in the future. Take what we offer, even if its low ball and you get to play on a winning team!! Well that works when you are winning Super Bowls, last I looked it's been a while since they won one. Maybe pay the players you need to keep to get that SB trophy, what a brilliant idea that would be. Hope Welker has a killer season and goes to GB for a great deal. He would be pretty awesome there!

 

[BradyFTW!]

On the bright side, this probably increases the odds of signing Hernandez long-term by a pretty significant margin.

 

[treeclimber]

I'm actually relieved this will be his last year in NE. Brady tries to force so much crap to him, and he's an awesome receiver, but vastly overrated on this board.

Hopefully he has one more good year with the Patriots, leaves to the Jets (or some equal stink hole) where he is forced to catch Sanchez ducks, and then proceeds to get his clock cleaned twice a year by Hightower.

Enjoy your money Wes. I'll take an up and coming Hernandez over you any day of the week.

 

[treeclimber]

What a joke!! Wes Welker had a great season last season, his contract season... fulfilling a contract that he outperformed without saying a peep. Welker looked faster then ever last year, certainly doesn't give any indication that he is slowing down. Yet the dude gets a low ball short term slap in the face offer!!

What a great message you send other players on the team or players looking to come in the future. Take what we offer, even if its low ball and you get to play on a winning team!! Well that works when you are winning Super Bowls, last I looked it's been a while since they won one. Maybe pay the players you need to keep to get that SB trophy, what a brilliant idea that would be. Hope Welker has a killer season and goes to GB for a great deal. He would be pretty awesome there!

Last time I checked the guy the Patriots are "low balling" was the main reason they just lost a Superbowl.

 

[BradyFTW!]

What a joke!! Wes Welker had a great season last season, his contract season... fulfilling a contract that he outperformed without saying a peep. Welker looked faster then ever last year, certainly doesn't give any indication that he is slowing down. Yet the dude gets a low ball short term slap in the face offer!!

What a great message you send other players on the team or players looking to come in the future. Take what we offer, even if its low ball and you get to play on a winning team!! Well that works when you are winning Super Bowls, last I looked it's been a while since they won one. Maybe pay the players you need to keep to get that SB trophy, what a brilliant idea that would be. Hope Welker has a killer season and goes to GB for a great deal. He would be pretty awesome there!

What, exactly, do you think they're planning to do with the money that isn't going to Welker? Pocket it?

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm actually relieved this will be his last year in NE. Brady tries to force so much crap to him, and he's an awesome receiver, but vastly overrated on this board.

Hopefully he has one more good year with the Patriots, leave to the Jets or something where he is forced to catch Sanchez ducks, and then proceeds to get his clock cleaned twice a year by Hightower.

Enjoy your money Wes. I'll take an up and coming Hernandez over you any day of the week.

Wait... you actually want to see Welker on the Jets? Do you hate the guy? If he's going to leave, I'd rather see him go to the NFC.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There is a lot of talking of us letting Welker walk in 2013 to save face. I don't think this is reasonable.

If Welker is worth $11.5M next, we should, and I think we will franchise him. The fact that we didn't give him that this year matters not. The risk will be taken by Welker.

However, it is more likely that we need the tag for someone else or that Welker will not be deemed to be worth $11.M.

More reasons why they won't. He'll be less likely to make the leverage miscalculation he did this season because he will have another $9.5M banked. He really didn't have a choice this season given his age and what they paid him for the last 5 seasons. They could do a tag and trade, but he has to sign the tag to facilitate that and Bill claims to be a stickler for the rule that says you can't talk trade for an unsigned player and so the trust factor could be blown there. And if they tag him to play him he could hold out right through camp and even into the season at no penalty cost to him beyond lost paychecks. With Brady carrying a $22M cap hit...not gonna fly. And after 2013 they would get no comp pick for him because of the ten year rule. Even if he put up great numbers for them in 2013 and managed to sign a susbstantial deal elsewhere.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm actually relieved this will be his last year in NE. Brady tries to force so much crap to him, and he's an awesome receiver, but vastly overrated on this board.

Hopefully he has one more good year with the Patriots, leave to the Jets or something where he is forced to catch Sanchez ducks, and then proceeds to get his clock cleaned twice a year by Hightower.

Enjoy your money Wes. I'll take an up and coming Hernandez over you any day of the week.

Yep, they are coming out of the woodwork.

 

[treeclimber]

Wait... you actually want to see Welker on the Jets? Do you hate the guy? If he's going to leave, I'd rather see him go to the NFC.

I don't hate him. I'm just a fan of the team, not indivudal players. And like I said before he's a great receiver but vastly overrated. I wouldn't mind him going to a division rival so I can watch him get embarassed twice a year if all he cares about is money.

Who the heck wants to pay 10-11 million dollars to a receiver not named Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald? No sane people, this is evident by the Patriots decision not to fold to Welker's absurd contract expectations.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Last time I checked the guy the Patriots are "low balling" was the main reason they just lost a Superbowl.

LOL

He's also the main reason they got there... Without him the two young TE's might have really struggled what with their remaining surrounding supporting cast. Edleman, Branch, Slater, Hightopfade and Ocho... Brady might have done something to get himself arrested for real.

 

[RayClay]

They didn't offer him a 3 year contract this season. They offered him a two year contract extension last fall and apparently that wasn't on the table this spring, at least not with the same guaranteed money. I know why, and I've explained it several times. Absent a 3rd year (the last year of his prior deal) for amortization purposes, they weren't even willing to pay him $16M over 2 years. What they were really offering him last fall was 3 years (including last year) at $18.5M or a little over $6M per.

Then he went out and put up record numbers. If he does so again they're choices will be paying at least $21 over 2 years or watching him walk to a competitor where they will have to hope they are not defending him twice a year, the underlying reason they traded for him in 2007.

And FWIW Bledsoe didn't destroy any business options because that 10 year $100M deal he signed only guaranteed him $10M and after two seasons they traded him for a first round pick while only taking a $6M dead cap hit. Had he remained he might have destroyed their plans for winning a Lombardi, but that had nothing to do with his contract. That had to do with his skillset being a poor fit for the system.

They reportedly offered him a contract and there were discussions about a third year. That's my 2-3 year. If you want a longer contract at a certain age, you adjust the other numbers. If he didn't get a better contract than offered before, then that was essentially the offer, if it indeed was.

If your going to act as if he's being crucified, i can't help you, I can just go by reporters comments that they were negotiating this year and didn't come to agreement.

I guess people's idea of negotiating is we have to give whatever the player wants for as long as he wants if it's a player we like. I don't believe any of the players or there agents were misled into thinking that was the negotiating style of this team when they came to talk contract..

 

[RayClay]

LOL

He's also the main reason they got there... Without him the two young TE's might have really struggled what with their remaining surrounding supporting cast. Edleman, Branch, Slater, Hightopfade and Ocho... Brady might have done something to get himself arrested for real.

Why bother, that's obviously the same troll that's been banned under different names.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What, exactly, do you think they're planning to do with the money that isn't going to Welker? Pocket it?

They already blew it on Ocho.

 

[BradyFTW!]

They already blew it on Ocho.

Ahh, I see. You're totally right, it really is as simple as taking Welker's money out of their budget for "players who won't end up working but we'll sign anyways". I'm surprised that nobody else thought of that.

 

[treeclimber]

Why bother, that's obviously the same troll that's been banned under different names.

Wow, calling a person with a different opinion than yours a troll. Shocking.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I kind of like the way the Patriots have handled their business since Robert Kraft hired BB.

Can you name a more successful team and organization??

Nope, and I have made that argument many times here. That doesn't, however, mean that I should support their position. Most of the time i support their position because they are generally reasonable but this isn't one of those times. Their treatment of Welker is flat out the most cynical thing I have ever seen them do. Welker gave everything he had and not only produced what anyone could have expected but outperformed all of his peers, and for the Patriots to apply a tag with no intention of making him any realistic market deal is a rotten thing to do. They didn't have to give him Calvin Johnson's money but they also didn't have to offer him a small fraction of it, any realistic offer most likely would have gotten it done but they decided to play as hardassed as they possibly could have. I think it is bullsh.t and it will come back to bite them in the @ss both on the field when he's gone and when Brady's trying to get his next deal done. Pretty rare for me to rip this team but this is really disgraceful. Sucks they went this route.