Is Del Rio just a sore loser, or are these comments more serious than that?

[PATSNUTme]

I read the article (it was written by Vic Ketchman by the way) - Del Rio's choice of words may not have been ideal, but they are hardly worth creating a buzz over. For the NFL to fine Del Rio only would only stand to reinforce the "prima donna" type attitude it has towards overprotecting the quarterback.

It's a hard hitting game. Fining Ingram for an illegal hit falls within the rules, fining Del Rio for saying Brady got what was coming to him is absurd.

I think we should be applauding Tom for an gutsy run and dive, not complaining about what some opposing coach said after the fact.

Did you click on the link that I provided in a previous post on this thread? Spearing is illegal and a 15 yard penalty. Why wasn't it called? I don't know but I was screaming for a call.

If Delrio is advocating spearing, then he should be fined and the player should be fined.

 

[Murphys95]

So teaching his players to use an illegal technique (spearing) that could:

a) paralyze the tackler
and
b) severely hurt or paralyze the player (I don't care if it's a QB or a DT - -the position doesn't matter)

is OK?

"After the fact"? Hey, J'ville plays again this Sunday. His players now have heard him advocating "spearing". What message does that send out to them for the next game?

Murph, you're one of my favorite posters here and I love your webcast show (and one of these days WILL make sure to get down to the pub in Alexandria), but I really don't get this.

See, this is my point, I think we're making too much out of his words. The way I read it, Del Rio is basically saying, "Brady didn't slide feet first, which is a special rule afforded to him, he got hit hard, and now he's complaining about it." Then his not so eloquent followup is, "they should have speared him then." What I hear is Del Rio saying Brady got what was coming to him, not advocating any of his players to go out and illegally hit a quarterback.

Let me put it another way - one of my favorite quotes of all time is from Pepper Johnson during Super Bowl 36. Kurt Warner just took a pounding and went down hard, and Pepper screams from the sidelines, "They knocked him out, I think they knocked him out, they shoulda knocked him out!"

I love that line - they shoulda knocked him out!

Is Pepper advocating his players go out and injure Kurt Warner? Of course not. I view Del Rio's comments in the same light. It's a hard hitting game, Brady knew the risks of diving head first, Brady got hit, Brady complained. Brady complained. The key component in all of this is that apparently Brady complained to the league about it.

Let's switch shoes for a minute. If it were Peyton Manning instead of Tom Brady who complained to the league about getting hit after a dive, how many here would be appalled at Del Rio's statements?

I think you have a realistic argument that Del Rio may have made a poor choice in words (one word really), but I think it's a stretch to think that he's actually advocating his players go out and injure someone. That's the angle I'm coming from.

 

[shmessy]

See, this is my point, I think we're making too much out of his words. The way I read it, Del Rio is basically saying, "Brady didn't slide feet first, which is a special rule afforded to him, he got hit hard, and now he's complaining about it." Then his not so eloquent followup is, "they should have speared him then." What I hear is Del Rio saying Brady got what was coming to him, not advocating any of his players to go out and illegally hit a quarterback.

Let me put it another way - one of my favorite quotes of all time is from Pepper Johnson during Super Bowl 36. Kurt Warner just took a pounding and went down hard, and Pepper screams from the sidelines, "They knocked him out, I think they knocked him out, they shoulda knocked him out!"

I love that line - they shoulda knocked him out!

Is Pepper advocating his players go out and injure Kurt Warner? Of course not. I view Del Rio's comments in the same light. It's a hard hitting game, Brady knew the risks of diving head first, Brady got hit, Brady complained. Brady complained. The key component in all of this is that apparently Brady complained to the league about it.

Let's switch shoes for a minute. If it were Peyton Manning instead of Tom Brady who complained to the league about getting hit after a dive, how many here would be appalled at Del Rio's statements?

I think you have a realistic argument that Del Rio may have made a poor choice in words (one word really), but I think it's a stretch to think that he's actually advocating his players go out and injure someone. That's the angle I'm coming from.

Poor choice of words? You compare it to Pepper Johnson at SB36?

OK, let's compare the two:

1) Pepper was a rookie lowly Assistant Coach. DLR is a Head Coach for the past 4 years and several years earlier as an Assistant.

2) Pepper BLURTED it out as the action occurred. DLR WROTE it on his team's official website two days later from the comfort of his office.

3) Pepper said "knocked out", DLR said "Spreared". Spearing is a technique. I would've been fine if DLR wrote "knocked into 2025" or "knocked out", but he WROTE "speared".

The HC controls the livelihoods and careers of his players. He can cut them if he doesn't like how they smile. When he advocates ("should" is a word of advocacy) the technique of SPEARING on his team's official website (not even in the heat of battle), what message does that send to his players for subsequent games?

This is not to say Pepper's words were noble. I don't like seeing that part on 3GtoGI. But the comparison between what Pepper said and what DLR wrote isn't in the same ballpark.

Regarding your point on Manning, I would have no problem with Manning complaining to the league if he was in a similar situation. I also think Igor Olshansky had every right to complain to the league because of Nalen's idiotic cut-block. Spears and cut-blocks are NOT accepted in the NFL. Knocking someone out is. Big difference. The fact that a HC advocated it in writing two days later with regard to his own defensive players is completely off the map.

 

[Murphys95]

Poor choice of words? You compare it to Pepper Johnson at SB36?

OK, let's compare the two:

1) Pepper was a rookie lowly Assistant Coach. DLR is a Head Coach for the past 4 years and several years earlier as an Assistant.

2) Pepper BLURTED it out as the action occurred. DLR WROTE it on his team's official website two days later from the comfort of his office.

3) Pepper said "knocked out", DLR said "Spreared". Spearing is a technique. I would've been fine if DLR wrote "knocked into 2025" or "knocked out", but he WROTE "speared".

This is not to say Pepper's words were noble. I don't like seeing that part on 3GtoGI. But the comparison between what Pepper said and what DLR wrote isn't in the same ballpark.

Regarding your point on Manning, I would have no problem with Manning complaining to the league if he was in a similar situation. I also think Igor Olshansky had every right to complain to the league because of Nalen's idiotic cut-block. Spears and cut-blocks are NOT accepted in the NFL. Knocking someone out is. Big difference. The fact that a HC advocated it in writing two days later with regard to his own defensive players is completely off the map.

So we disagree, that's cool. One question though - I read the article on Jags.com that quoted Del Rio. You've said several times that he "wrote" it. Am I missing that article?

 

[shmessy]

So we disagree, that's cool. One question though - I read the article on Jags.com that quoted Del Rio. You've said several times that he "wrote" it. Am I missing that article?

My bad, he may have said it. However, it was well after the game and was put on their official website.

Should we feel any less anger about DLR advocating spearing as we would if the Denver Bronco's website had Shanahan advocating cut blocking. Imagine the firestorm that would occur if Shanny was quoted by his own team's official website saying "Nalen shouldda cut block his man more".

 

[D-cleater]

. Bravo to whoever posted this over on the Jags forum?? Classic!

And that's why he'll be fined. Probably 50-75 K. Leftwich, Garrad, Vick, Schaub, Brunell or whoever your QB is next year is counting his blessings that we don't play each other in the regular season cuz payback is a bicth. Plus, we all know you guys won't make postseason either cuz your window closed this year. Actually, it didn't close...it slammed the F shut.

The Pats OWN Alltel, the Jagz just rent it from us.

:rocker:

 

[scout]

When I saw the thread title, I was assuming it was about his press conference where he maintained that Thomas's TD was not a catch(may have been on HBO Inside NFL). I mean, there was no doubt about it, not a catch. He must have had a better TV angle then everyone else. I sure couldn't see the ball and ground in any of the angles. Then to still be firing away days later and use the term "spearing" goes to show what a lack of class and respect for the game.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My bad, he may have said it. However, it was well after the game and was put on their official website.

Should we feel any less anger about DLR advocating spearing as we would if the Denver Bronco's website had Shanahan advocating cut blocking. Imagine the firestorm that would occur if Shanny was quoted by his own team's official website saying "Nalen shouldda cut block his man more".

You do realize I'm taking points off for confusing cut-blocking with chop-blocking don't you?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Just shows that an idiot in a suit is still an idiot.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Ask and ye shall receive:

Two hours ago, I sent PFT this e-mail:

Subject: Forget rumors . . . how about an incontrovertible fact?

How about the Pats-Jags game, when Clint Ingram clearly speared Tom Brady? [If nailing a guy in the back with your helmet isn't spearing, I don't know what is?]

(A) The refs didn't even pull out a flag for it (the Pats should have gotten 15 yards for it).
(B) Jack Del Rio, on jaguars.com, has said the following. So when is the NFL going to fine Ingram AND Del Rio (Ingram for the cheap shot, Del Rio for advocating an illegal play)?


Del Rio backs Ingram
LB 'wasn't trying to take him out'

*snipped*

And PFT responds:

DEL RIO STILL A DEL DUMBASS​

In response to comments from Pats quarterback Tom Brady advocating a fine for Jags linebacker Clint Ingram for a hard hit delivered on Christmas Eve, Jacksonville coach Jack Del Rio says that Brady deserved a second illegal hit for choosing not to slide at the end of a run earlier in the game. ​

"They should've speared him then," Del Rio said. "You go face-first and you're a runner."​

Speared? ​

It looks to us like an NFL coach is advocating a deliberate violation of the rules by one of his players. And that's the kind of thing that could get Del Rio called to the principal's office.​

Meanwhile, it still appears that Del Rio will save his job even if the Jags fail to make the playoffs after a 12-4 season in 2005. The Jags need to win on Sunday at Kansas City, and they need a loss from the Jets, a loss or tie from the Bengals, and a loss or tie from the Titans.​

Come 2007, however, count on Del Rio's name to be at the top of the list of the guys on the hot seat.​

 

[Oswlek]

Ingram was the guy who was called for a late, but ticky tack, hit on Brady. I must agree with Jax that that call was bogus. I would have been furious if it was called against the Pats. HOWEVER, you do not repay a stupid call by the officials with an illegal hit intended to hurt Brady. It seems obvious from the comments afterwards that Ingram had a green light to take a shot if he got his chance, and he didn't waste it. Both player and coach should be fined and suspended for the final game for their illegal shenanigans. I couldn't believe the trash that came out of Del Rio's mouth; this is an NFL coach?

It was absolutely *not* a bogus call. The guy in question leaped in the air to swat a pass, landed, took two more long strides and then gave Brady an intentional forearm shove.

I am all for loosening up the protection on the QB, but that is the definition of "unnecessary roughness" regardless of how light it might hve been. Had it been a situation where Ingram didn't have time to stop and ran into Brady due to his momentum that would be one thing, but that was not the case. He went out of his way to give Brady a purposeful, unnecessary shot.

I have said this before, but I will say it again:

That Jags are a bunch of whiny, cheap shot giving, ****ees. There are a few guys on the team that I think are decent fellows and they certainly have their share of good players. But for a team that dishes out far more cheap sh!t than they receive, they b!tch and moan all the time. They make the Colts of the past few years look perfectly gentlemenly.


Edited to say that I do realize that Harrison certainly gives his fair share of "extra forceful hits" at the end of plays and face shoves as he is getting off of a guy. The difference is that neither he nor the team b!tch to the public about it when a team gives it back to them. I understand and accept that extracurricular activity goes on, but it just annoys me to no end when a team that champions that behaviour sobs like a baby when they get a taste of their own medicine.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It was absolutely *not* a bogus call. The guy in question leaped in the air to swat a pass, landed, took two more long strides and then gave Brady an intentional forearm shove.

I am all for loosening up the protection on the QB, but that is the definition of "unnecessary roughness" regardless of how light it might hve been. Had it been a situation where Ingram didn't have time to stop and ran into Brady due to his momentum that would be one thing, but that was not the case. He went out of his way to give Brady a purposeful, unnecessary shot.

I have said this before, but I will say it again:

That Jags are a bunch of whiny, cheap shot giving, ****ees. There are a few guys on the team that I think are decent fellows and they certainly have their share of good players. But for a team that dishes out far more cheap sh!t than they receive, they b!tch and moan all the time. They make the Colts of the past few years look perfectly gentlemenly.

I loved the shots of Spicer talking trash during the game - Vic Ketchum stated in one of his items that the Pats gained 117 yds rushing which in his mind was what led to the Jags loss - I just loved watching Spicer's spittle flying while the O-line pretty much man-handled him and his linemates all day. (Yes nitpickers, Light and Graham got beat, but the majority of plays the D-line was owned.)

 

[Drewwho]

What really gets me PO'd is it is now Thursday and NO fine has been imposed. I guess that means that was a clean hit! AMAZING!
I am sure if this was Peyton Manning, Polian and Dungy would have been all over the NFL to fine Ingram and the face of the NFL, everyones favorite spokesman would have had retribution on that hit, but I guess Brady is not worthy of it. He is just a 6th rounder with 3 SB rings that his is lucky to have because of the great system he is in! ARG!!!!!

 

[PatsFan-NH]

There are so many things about this event that really piss me off, besides the lack of the fine, and the HC advocating NFL-criminal behavior, is that on the NFLN, on the Gameday program where they do wrap ups of all the games, they never even showed the hit, or commented on it.

They swept it under the rug and wanted to pretend that it never happened. I have no idea if this is because its the Pats and they really want another team to be favored, because the ref missed a clearly illegal call and they wanted to skip over it, or because they are already gun-shy about the roughing the passer calls and don't want to add to the furor.

I do know that Deion often says when they do show roughing the passer calls, that 'oh you can do that to X', then 'oh no, you can't do that to Tom Brady' -- like he gets special treatment or special rules, and he doesn't.

To add insult to injury they didn't even bring it up on the Wednesday version on Total Access, where they talk to the Head Ref about calls that look like they are wrong. Of course the Head Ref, almost always shows that in fact the call (or non-call) was correct. They had no way to defend this one from the league's POV.

Thing is, the hit and the call have nothing to do with the QB. The player just happened to be the QB, but that should have been called a penalty regardless of who was hit.

And I think it was deliberate, not only a penalty but an ejection was called for. Ingram was harassing Brady all game and not being effective, and I think he saw this as his chance to punish him. Brady was down, and Ingram ran towards him, lowered his head and hit him. It seemed to me that Ingram made specific choices that caused the event, he could have made other choices and either avoided the hit, or not lead with his helmet.

I realize that with momentum you just can't stop, but you can twist so that you don't hit the target. And good old McGinist used to wrap up a QB, and twist so that the QB fell on top of him, and thereby avoid the 'driving into the turf' penalty that so many defenders get because they think they are entitled to a freebie on the QB.

And finally, for those who think there is too much protection for the QB in the rules, the other alternative is to armor and pad them like NHL goalies, and they will all be like Drew Bledsoe, statues until they are pushed over. The other option is to lose your best player. I like the hitting, but I wouldn't have a problem if they made QBs untouchable. Seeing Brady on the turf after the hit, was heart stopping, and it could have been soooo much worse (Season, Career).

 

[the taildragger]

First, thanks for shedding light on this CTPatsfan77

Easily worst comment by a head coach this year.

Note to Del Rio: spearing is illegal because it puts people in wheelchairs.

As a coach to not just condone spearing, but to brazenly suggest it should happen more frequently than it already does...that's at least a $50k fine...or he should be forced out.

and no flag? officials should be dismissed over this one too. That wasn't illegal contact, it was a freaking assasination attempt...and Del Rio almost sounds like he ordered it up from 245 pound goon, Clint Ingram, who aerially launched his body, helmet-first, down into the neck and spinal column of another player -- as the Herald put it, briefly altering the shape of his body. Forget about the starts streak, Bruschi couldn't even remember the last time Tom stayed down or missed a SNAP due to injury (other than 01 playoffs).

I don't care who the player was that was hit, or what position he plays...that better do two things: get the offending player ejected and fined severely, and force the coach to issue a public apology immediately after the game.

Del Rio decided to rub it in instead.

Why is this getting so little exposure?...is it just getting buried in the holiday weekend?

It was the dirtiest hit I've seen on the guy, back in '01 Nate Clements nearly decapitated him, but he got right back up, marched 20 yards downfield to retrieve his helmet, and went right back to the huddle.

There isn't a player on this team who thinks anyone is physically tougher than the signal caller...how many other teams can honestly say that with a straight face?

 

[the taildragger]

here's the buffalo hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLJh1sKZNpg

he later admitted to Nate's brother that he was in serious pain...never showed it.

 

[italia44]

First, thanks for shedding light on this CTPatsfan77

Easily worst comment by a head coach this year.

Note to Del Rio: spearing is illegal because it puts people in wheelchairs.

As a coach to not just condone spearing, but to brazenly suggest it should happen more frequently than it already does...that's at least a $50k fine...or he should be forced out.

and no flag? officials should be dismissed over this one too. That wasn't illegal contact, it was a freaking assasination attempt...and Del Rio almost sounds like he ordered it up from 245 pound goon, Clint Ingram, who aerially launched his body, helmet-first, down into the neck and spinal column of another player -- as the Herald put it, briefly altering the shape of his body. Forget about the starts streak, Bruschi couldn't even remember the last time Tom stayed down or missed a SNAP due to injury (other than 01 playoffs).

I don't care who the player was that was hit, or what position he plays...that better do two things: get the offending player ejected and fined severely, and force the coach to issue a public apology immediately after the game.

Del Rio decided to rub it in instead.

Why is this getting so little exposure?...is it just getting buried in the holiday weekend?

It was the dirtiest hit I've seen on the guy, back in '01 Nate Clements nearly decapitated him, but he got right back up, marched 20 yards downfield to retrieve his helmet, and went right back to the huddle.

There isn't a player on this team who thinks anyone is physically tougher than the signal caller...how many other teams can honestly say that with a straight face?

Well done,I couldn't have expressed this more forcefully.

As soon as he hit Brady,I thought of Darrell Stingely.......I was sure TB suffered a Spinal injury.
The Patriots showed restraint by not attacking Ingram.......I would have killed him.

At the least,Ingram should be fined AND Suspended,this was WORSE than Albert Haynesworth.

 

[Oswlek]

Well done,I couldn't have expressed this more forcefully.

As soon as he hit Brady,I thought of Darrell Stingely.......I was sure TB suffered a Spinal injury.
The Patriots showed restraint by not attacking Ingram.......I would have killed him.

At the least,Ingram should be fined AND Suspended,this was WORSE than Albert Haynesworth.

Expect more of the same the next time NE and JAx face off. Plus they will complain about some inconsequential call when they lose.

I really can't stand that team.

 

[fgssand]

Expect more of the same the next time NE and JAx face off. Plus they will complain about some inconsequential call when they lose.

I really can't stand that team.

OK I think the time has come for us to retaliate. If the NFL sits by and does nothing - then we have to send our own enforcer after Ingram and a few others.

Old timers will remember when I say we need Jim Loscotoff!!


Del Rio is a classless idiot.

 

[Fanfrom1960]

Just shows that an idiot in a suit is still an idiot.

Could borrow Red Sox boards' favorite nickname for George Steinbrenner: Sias (sh*t in a suit), football variety. I used to kind of like Del Rio before this.