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Nobody knows that. I think that Caldwell will be given a chance to compete just like the others. But if he gets beat out then he has a chance to get cut, especially with that 2M salary.
I'm not going to sit here and vilify Caldwell, although I am still pretty bitter about his big time drops in the AFCCG. He was solid for us in the regular season. But that's the REGULAR season.
The Pats are stacking the deck big time and spending the bucks because our goal is a RING, not to look good in the regular season. So I can see Caldwell getting a pink ticket IF he doesn't look good in training camp and with his recent playoff history.
Gaffney had some deep balls thrown to him last yr, like the Houston game, and had some dropped.. Im torn between the 2 of them, I want both on the team..
Seems like the front office agrees with me by signing 3 wide outs this off season.
frankiesfly said:Caldwell was a one season wonder and when he dont make the team i'll make sure to be the first to write a thread about it.
frankiesfly said:I never said Caldwell didnt have a good game against the Chargers. I didnt even bring up anything about dropped balls. I guess you must of confused my post with someone elses, or do you just like putting words in peoples mouths? Playing against your old team does give you that extra motivation to make plays. Its something that is always brought up and talked about, when a player is going up against his former team.
frankiesfly said:I guess to you its some holy ghost. Oh no, thats right it was some almighty force. Reche is going to have beat out both Gaffney and Jackson, and it wont happen.
This argument is ridiculous. Gaffney didn't even play a game until the end of October. Reche Caldwell had all of training camp and pre-season to get comfortable with the offense. Thus, you CANNOT compare their regular season performances, as Reche had a whole lot more than a leg up on Gaffney in learning the offense.
salty said:Look, Caldwell is serviceable, but thats it. Tom Brady is such a great quarterback that he can make serviceable look good, but that doesn't mean that he (Brady) couldn't use some better weapons. Caldwell is a #4 receiver and nothing more in my eyes.
I was talking about the pick at the end of the Colts game this year. The Bailey pick was clearly the result of a very rare mental blunder by Tom Brady. It shocked me that he made such a mistake, whereas next time Reche sh!ts his pants in a key situation, I am going to be very angry that he was even allowed to take the field in those circumstances.
What was so bad about his recent playoff history?
Oh come on you know what I'm talking about. Caldwell pulled a Bill Buckner , TWICE in the biggest game of the year. If the Pats didn't already have 3 recent rings to satisfy the faithful he would have been run out of town on a pole.
I think Caldwell deserves a second chance but he has to earn his roster spot in training camp just like anybody else. That clear enough for you?
They're signing more WRs because:
A) Caldwell can't do it alone. Caldwell, Gaffney, and Brown won't cut it again. Caldwell's situation is independent from the signings.
B) Caldwell and Gaffney are both free agents after this season.
You go do that. Anything that makes you happy.
You're doing a great job of making excuses.
Any healthy WR at this point can beat out Jackson.
Caldwell was consistently better ever since Gaffney was signed in October. Gaffney didn't even start for a chunk of weeks while Gabriel was around. Who was starting that entire time? Donald Reche Caldwell.
You're right Gabriel was playing. So Gaffney didnt get the same playing time as Caldwell which would explain Reche having better numbers.
frankiesfly said:Im done with this post.
frankiesfly said:I'll take your opinions into consideration, and we'll just wait and see what happens during the remainder of the off season.
frankiesfly said:Jackson will be healthy
frankiesfly said:and will have a bigger role this season to really see how he can produce.
frankiesfly said:I enjoyed this thread but im retiring from it. If I'm wrong about Reche i will own up to it.
"A second chance?!?"
What did he do, burn down BB's house? Key Brady's car?
TO THE STAKE!
He dropped a friggin' pass in a game where all sorts of Pats players made all sorts of mistakes. What, let's cut all of them too?
Caldwell averaged 4 catches a game during the regular season. He had 5 against the Jets. 7 against the Chargers. 4 against the Colts.
Your claim was that paying a player more than he is worth is bad, and that the best teams underpay their talent the most. Now you're just manipulating the numbers in a poor attempt to justify a mistaken comment.
What makes this argument of yours more ridiculous is that you're using it with the one team that most runs counter to your argument. This team assigns a value and then holds to it. It 'overpays' for the bottom end of its roster at the comparative expense of the upper eschelon players. So, for you to talk about jettisoning a fairly low-end/middle class salary is even more foolish in the context of this particular team.
So you won't be satisfied until we anoint Caldwell as the second coming or nominate him for sainthood? I get it.
VJCPatriot said:Mediocrity during the regular season
VJCPatriot said:and making big mental mistakes in the postseason
VJCPatriot said:are now the gold standard. Why don't we sign him to a lifetime contract? I was totally misguided before in wanting Caldwell to prove himself in training camp like the rest of the guys.
VJCPatriot said:Clearly he deserves a gold gilded toilet seat and a guaranteed roster spot unlike that overrated guy Brady! Two can play at this game of hyperbole buddy.
VJCPatriot said:Reche Caldwell 2006
61 catches 760 yards 12.5 ypc
NFL Rank 40th overall in total receiving yards
http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/RECYDS/2006/regular
VJCPatriot said:But we wouldn't want a pesky thing like the facts from getting in the way of your enshrinement of Caldwell now would we? Thanks for playing, come again.
VJCPatriot said:And just to clarify, notwithstanding my scathing retort to your theatrics I don't hate Caldwell. I think he could become a reasonably decent #2 or #3 option but I don't see him as having the talent or intestinal fortitude to ever be a number 1 option for the Pats and I for one am glad that he won't be counted on to become such in 2007.
VJCPatriot said:I stand by my assertion that Caldwell needs to prove himself in training camp and is by no means a lock considering the influx of new talent and competition at the wide receiver spot for 2007.
I have been absolutely consistent on this. You just don't seem to be able to follow.
The cost of a player is the amount of money that you have to pay to keep him on your team.
If a player signs a four year deal with an $8M signing bonus, and annual salaries of $1M, that deal costs $12M over four years or $3M/year.
It is a bad idea to sign it if the player is only worth $2M/year. It is a good idea to sign it if a player is worth $4M/year.
One second after you pay the signing bonus, the $8M is added to your cap for the next four years. Unless you get the player to return the signing bonus, you can never ever get back that $8M of cap space. From that moment onwards, the deal is worth $1M/year.
solman said:If the player is struck by lightning and suffers from reduced mobility that lowers his market value to $1.5M/year, you would not cut him because he is worth more than the $1.5M/year you are paying him.
The cost of a player (for purposes of keeping him on the roster or not) is the amount of ADDITIONAL money that you have to pay him to keep him on your roster.
solman said:Earlier in this thread I defined in detail the term "underpay" as I use it. I believe you replied to that post. You are now using a completely different definition of underpay.
When I say "underpay", I mean that we pay less for that player's usable talent than that talent is worth on the FA market.
solman said:You appear to be using the term "underpay" to mean that we pay less for a particular roster spot than the league average.
Of course the Patriots put a lot of emphasis on depth. You can't make me say otherwise by changing definitions.
Our success is the result of getting a lot of talent for very little money. (underpaying)
solman said:Last year, when we got Caldwell and Gafney for a TOTAL of $1.32M, Caldwell was on the happy side of the value/benefit equation.
solman said:This year Caldwell costs twice as much as last year, and probably has the same amount of talent.
solman said:Sometimes when you double the price on a good deal, it becomes a bad deal. I believe that Caldwell is an example of this.
What was "asinine" was you making a claim that your own definition disproves. My point about Watson was simply proof of this. Furthermore, saying you "generally do so on a per season basis" is nothing but a cop out. If Jerry Rice only played 13 games and someone else caught more balls as a result, Rice would still have been the number #1 receiver for Montana/Young. Watson was Brady's #1 target last season when everyone was on the field and healthy, not Caldwell. Your argument blaming Caldwell for not catching more balls when he wasn't the #1 option until Watson went down is completely unfair and is built upon some of the most contrived arguments I've ever seen on a football forum.
Mediocrity? A saint? What the hell?!So you won't be satisfied until we anoint Caldwell as the second coming or nominate him for sainthood? I get it. Mediocrity during the regular season and making big mental mistakes in the postseason are now the gold standard. Why don't we sign him to a lifetime contract? I was totally misguided before in wanting Caldwell to prove himself in training camp like the rest of the guys. Clearly he deserves a gold gilded toilet seat and a guaranteed roster spot unlike that overrated guy Brady! Two can play at this game of hyperbole buddy.
Reche Caldwell 2006
61 catches 760 yards 12.5 ypc
NFL Rank 40th overall in total receiving yards
http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/RECYDS/2006/regular
But we wouldn't want a pesky thing like the facts from getting in the way of your enshrinement of Caldwell now would we? Thanks for playing, come again.
And just to clarify, notwithstanding my scathing retort to your theatrics I don't hate Caldwell. I think he could become a reasonably decent #2 or #3 option but I don't see him as having the talent or intestinal fortitude to ever be a number 1 option for the Pats and I for one am glad that he won't be counted on to become such in 2007. I stand by my assertion that Caldwell needs to prove himself in training camp and is by no means a lock considering the influx of new talent and competition at the wide receiver spot for 2007.
This is silly.
I could care less what you want to call Caldwell: #1 target, goto guy or "too expensive"
Given the opportunity that he was presented with last season, Caldwell catching 61 passes is not terribly impressive.
| 13 | 474 |
| 15 | 3K |
| 19 | 935 |
| 5 | 3K |
| 13 | 2K |
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