Is Belichick still a great coach or did Belichick “ruin” Mac Jones?

[Love The Drake]

Both can be true .

 

[PATS16N0]

Brady wasn't the only QB developed under Belichick. You can argue that Cassel, Garoppolo, Hoyer, and Brissett all had better careers than they were probably expected to have. Far better in several cases. Brady was the only elite QB developed under Belichick.

We can argue whether it was Belichick or McDaniels/Weis/O'Brien who developed them. But the Patriots have produced a handful of QBs who succeeded during the Belichick era. Cassel didn't even play in college and got the Patriots to 11 wins and got KC into the playoffs. Hoyer was undrafted and was a starter at one point. Garoppolo got the 49ers to the Super Bowl.

Belichick didn’t develop Brady. You’re already making things up.

Brady was winning big games at Michigan with the world-class clutch-gene that defined his entire career. He was good enough to be kept on as a third quarterback, he was playing better than Bledsoe in training camp and practice the year Bledsoe got nuked. He won a Super Bowl his first starting season with a team that previously had a horrendous W/L ratio, he played and prepared with his receivers all the time without Belichick anywhere to be seen, and there’s literal footage of him telling Belichick how to game plan for Ed Reed.

He was literally being referred to as Montana’esque multiple times immediately, all through out 2001-2004.

Not sure why you insist on giving Belichick credit for Brady but here you are doing it once again.

Now let’s just take a massive leap in logic and say Belichick “developed” Jimmy G beyond where he otherwise would have been. Did he lose his ability to “develop” journeyman quarterbacks so completely that Mac Jones is his fault? Or are you finally willing to admit Mac Jones just sucked?

 

[Steve102]

Belichick didn’t develop Brady. You’re already making things up.

Right. He was made in a lab. No coaching needed. A product of science. Just add the right chemicals and voila, GOAT QB.

 

[PATS16N0]

Right. He was made in a lab. No coaching needed. A product of science. Just add the right chemicals and voila, GOAT QB.

What did Belichick do to “develop” a quarterback getting 2nd and 3rd reps who won a Super Bowl his first starting year and got referred to as the second coming of Montana immediately?

Or do you not know?

 

[PATS16N0]

If Belichick is responsible for Brady but can’t elevate Mac Jones to 5th ****tiest QB in the league today than he should be **** canned tonight for having dementia.

 

[Steve102]

What did Belichick do to “develop” a quarterback getting 2nd and 3rd reps who won a Super Bowl his first starting year and got referred to as the second coming of Montana immediately?

Or do you not know?

Clearly you don't, so enjoy yourself in your little ball of Bill hate.

There's 20 years of material out there where Tom talks about meetings with Bill on the daily. Go study the history of this team and their relationship.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick didn’t develop Brady. You’re already making things up.

Brady was winning big games at Michigan with the world-class clutch-gene that defined his entire career. He was good enough to be kept on as a third quarterback, he was playing better than Bledsoe in training camp and practice the year Bledsoe got nuked. He won a Super Bowl his first starting season with a team that previously had a horrendous W/L ratio, he played and prepared with his receivers all the time without Belichick anywhere to be seen, and there’s literal footage of him telling Belichick how to game plan for Ed Reed.

He was literally being referred to as Montana’esque multiple times immediately, all through out 2001-2004.

Not sure why you insist on giving Belichick credit for Brady but here you are doing it once again.

Now let’s just take a massive leap in logic and say Belichick “developed” Jimmy G beyond where he otherwise would have been. Did he lose his ability to “develop” journeyman quarterbacks so completely that Mac Jones is his fault? Or are you finally willing to admit Mac Jones just sucked?

Brady was developed here. He didn't come to the Patriots a finished product. Every QB gets developed when they come to the league by their teams. The QB's ceiling is on them. But the team plays a role in helping them reach that ceiling.

And Brady has given Belichick credit for bringing out the best in him.



And Brady was more of a game manager his first year starting. For most of 2001-2004, there was a large portion of people in the media and fans who believed Brady was a system QB. No need to rewrite history.

And I am not biting on your passive aggressive BS which is this entire thread. Just because Ian shut down the other thread, you started a thread that is basically a "I am right and I want to rub it into everyone's face" thread. That is all this is. I tried to answer your original question in a friendly, rational tone, but apparently you have the emotional maturity of Mac Jones. I ain't following you down this rabbit hole.

 

[Steve102]

Brady was developed here. He didn't come to the Patriots a finished product. Every QB gets developed when they come to the league by their teams. The QB's ceiling is on them. But the team plays a role in helping them reach that ceiling.

And Brady has given Belichick credit for bringing out the best in him.



And Brady was more of a game manager his first year starting. For most of 2001-2004, there was a large portion of people in the media and fans who believed Brady was a system QB. No need to rewrite history.

And I am not biting on your passive aggressive BS which is this entire thread. Just because Ian shut down the other thread, you started a thread that is basically a "I am right and I want to rub it into everyone's face" thread. That is all this is. I tried to answer your original question in a friendly, rational tone, but apparently you have the emotional maturity of Mac Jones. I ain't following you down this rabbit hole.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

In order to call Belichick a great coach TODAY you would have to look at past examples from many years ago. Think about that for a moment.

 

[1960Pats]

If Belichick is responsible for Brady but can’t elevate Mac Jones to 5th ****tiest QB in the league today than he should be **** canned tonight for having dementia.

Too many fans think that the coaches are more important than they are. Teams win all the time with average or even less than average HCs but never without top players on one or both sides of the ball. It's been that way from the beginning. I think the game has shifted more to offense now and that just isn't Bill's cup of tea.

 

[PATS16N0]

Brady was developed here. He didn't come to the Patriots a finished product. Every QB gets developed when they come to the league by their teams. The QB's ceiling is on them. But the team plays a role in helping them reach that ceiling.

And Brady has given Belichick credit for bringing out the best in him.



And Brady was more of a game manager his first year starting. For most of 2001-2004, there was a large portion of people in the media and fans who believed Brady was a system QB. No need to rewrite history.

And I am not biting on your passive aggressive BS which is this entire thread. Just because Ian shut down the other thread, you started a thread that is basically a "I am right and I want to rub it into everyone's face" thread. That is all this is. I tried to answer your original question in a friendly, rational tone, but apparently you have the emotional maturity of Mac Jones. I ain't following you down this rabbit hole.

Nobody comes into the NFL their finished product. Brady’s Montana status pretty much directly out of the gate, however, is indisputable. He developed himself, and had coaches. You’re implying he’s a product of Belichick (a Manning fanboy argument) despite even Manning fanboys mostly abandoning it.

Oh, God, now Rob is calling Tom a “game manager”

Here let me help you out:
www.coltsforum.com

You’ll fit right in.

 

[PATS16N0]

Steve is apparently Rob’s me-too lol

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Clearly you don't, so enjoy yourself in your little ball of Bill hate.

There's 20 years of material out there where Tom talks about meetings with Bill on the daily. Go study the history of this team and their relationship.

But why can’t you answer the question? Why can’t anyone who claims this answer the question?

Be specific…what does it mean to develop Brady in 2001? Is he giving him lessons on breaking down film? Is he coaching him one on one? Is he in the weight room with him? Is he shadowing him during the huddle?

This would be contrary to the way he’s developed every other player. This is would seem spurious given that if he had a magical formula, it should work with the numerous other failed quarterbacks, including Mac Jones, over the 182 non-Brady games he’s coached.

Brady went from 7th string to two year starter, two year bowl winner, at Michigan. He was not supposed to start over one of the greatest college QB prospects of the century, but he beat him out.

During the 2000 offseason, Belichick made Bledsoe the highest paid player in league history. Was he giving his 4th string QB private side lessons during that time?

The idea that Brady being drafted by Belichick in the 6th round as some kind of genius special project is ridiculous. Teams take players all the time in mid-late rounds for depth, or with some faint hope they’ll succeed. Belichick drafted the following QBs despite being solid at the QB position:


Rohan Davey (2002, 4th round)
Kliff Kingsbury (2002, 6th round)
Matt Cassell (2005, 7th round)
Kevin O’Connell (2008, 3rd round)
Zac Robinson (2010, 7th round)
Ryan Mallett (2011, 3rd round)
Jimmy Garoppolo (2014, 2nd round)
Jacoby Brissett (2016, 3rd round)
Danny Etling (2018, 7th round)
Jarret Stidham (2019, 4th round)
Mac Jones (2021, 1st round)
Bailey Zappe (2022, 4th round)

1 First Round Pick
2 Second Round Picks
3 Third Round Picks
3 Fourth Round Picks
2 Sixth Round Picks (incl Brady)
3 Seventh Round Picks

14 total picks

That’s a hell of a lot of picks looking for Bill’s profile QB who he can develop, and it seems it should be easy to develop one of them the same way as Brady.

So…?

 

[Rob0729]

Nobody comes into the NFL their finished product. Brady’s Montana status pretty much directly out of the gate, however, is indisputable. He developed himself, and had coaches. You’re implying he’s a product of Belichick (a Manning fanboy argument) despite even Manning fanboys mostly abandoning it.

Oh, God, now Rob is calling Tom a “game manager”

Here let me help you out:
www.coltsforum.com

You’ll fit right in.

Sorry if I live in the real world where Brady didn't have Montana status in 2001. The following offseason, there was a lot of debate of whether the Pats should trade Brady or Bledsoe with many people saying it should be Brady (and no I wasn't one of them).

I will forgive you though. Based on your posts, obviously you were not even born in 2001.

But thanks for confirming my suspicions why you started this thread. I think you are done here.

 

[PATS16N0]

It’s a simple question, Rob.
Is Belichick an awesome head coach and Mac Jones just sucks and sucked and isn’t good, or has Belichick’s star fell so hard he can’t even produce a mediocre quarterback anymore?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

And I am not biting on your passive aggressive BS which is this entire thread. Just because Ian shut down the other thread, you started a thread that is basically a "I am right and I want to rub it into everyone's face" thread. That is all this is.

And yet here you are

 

[PATS16N0]

Sorry if I live in the real world where Brady didn't have Montana status in 2001. The following offseason, there was a lot of debate of whether the Pats should trade Brady or Bledsoe with many people saying it should be Brady (and no I wasn't one of them).

I will forgive you though. Based on your posts, obviously you were not even born in 2001.

But thanks for confirming my suspicions why you started this thread. I think you are done here.

He lead a game-winning drive, backed up against his own end-zone, with no timeouts, in the ****ing Super Bowl, while giving John Madden goosebumps on international television, first first ****ing year as a starter.

That’s pretty Montana status.

Why don’t you just admit you hate Brady?

 

[Steve102]

Nobody comes into the NFL their finished product. Brady’s Montana status pretty much directly out of the gate, however, is indisputable. He developed himself, and had coaches. You’re implying he’s a product of Belichick (a Manning fanboy argument) despite even Manning fanboys mostly abandoning it.

Oh, God, now Rob is calling Tom a “game manager”

Here let me help you out:
www.coltsforum.com

You’ll fit right in.

Revisionist. Plenty of experts thought Tom was a game manager until 2007 when he absolutely ascended to another level.

But why can’t you answer the question? Why can’t anyone who claims this answer the question?

Be specific…what does it mean to develop Brady in 2001? Is he giving him lessons on breaking down film? Is he coaching him one on one? Is he in the weight room with him? Is he shadowing him during the huddle?

This would be contrary to the way he’s developed every other player. This is would seem spurious given that if he had a magical formula, it should work with the numerous other failed quarterbacks, including Mac Jones, over the 182 non-Brady games he’s coached.

Brady went from 7th string to two year starter, two year bowl winner, at Michigan. He was not supposed to start over one of the greatest college QB prospects of the century, but he beat him out.

During the 2000 offseason, Belichick made Bledsoe the highest paid player in league history. Was he giving his 4th string QB private side lessons during that time?

The idea that Brady being drafted by Belichick in the 6th round as some kind of genius special project is ridiculous. Teams take players all the time in mid-late rounds for depth, or with some faint hope they’ll succeed. Belichick drafted the following QBs despite being solid at the QB position:


Rohan Davey (2002, 4th round)
Kliff Kingsbury (2002, 6th round)
Matt Cassell (2005, 7th round)
Kevin O’Connell (2008, 3rd round)
Zac Robinson (2010, 7th round)
Ryan Mallett (2011, 3rd round)
Jimmy Garoppolo (2014, 2nd round)
Jacoby Brissett (2016, 3rd round)
Danny Etling (2018, 7th round)
Jarret Stidham (2019, 4th round)
Mac Jones (2021, 1st round)
Bailey Zappe (2022, 4th round)

That’s a hell of a lot of picks looking for Bill’s profile QB who he can develop, and it seems it should be easy to develop one of them the same way as Brady.

So…?

I am not going to do your homework for you, and I am not going to waste my time explaining the player/coach dynamic to you when your just being pedantic. Brady did not go from Everything He Does He Must Do Faster in 2000 to GOAT by The Seattle SB all by himself. If you cannot see how coaching works even at the basic level of football, then I cannot help you.

 

[Rob0729]

And yet here you are

Thanks for pointing it out. You are the best. Love you man.

If you want, PM me and we'll get together for a smoothie. I think we can be swell friends.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Rob crying to Ian to rescue him from this thread