Interesting BB nuggets from Rapoport

[The Gr8est]

If there isn’t a coach to replace Belichick today, there won’t be one to replace him when he retires in two years.

And Vrabel’s job isn’t safe. The Titans aren’t much better than Pats. Reports are that Vrabel and Ran Carthon don’t get along. And with Carthon going into his second year, he will probably want to replace Vrabel with his own head coach.

If Vrabel becomes available, and there are reports he could leave Tennessee, I think that changes the equation.

I liked what I saw of Vrabel as a HC.

 

[signbabybrady]

Why would I trust BB to draft and develop a rookie QB? His treatment of Mac and the very obvious willingness to get any real talent around him was a very poor decision. You really want a guy that may be here one more year to draft our future? what Have you seen that gives you hope that BB can improve the offense? (other than the fact it can’t get much worse).

 

[skinnydog]

You're making my point for me.

I'm saying the resources have been spent, but they haven't panned out. That's the whole point.

I still say the trade down for Strange was a good one because of all the picks they picked up and the fact that no one around him in that draft class is doing anything.

But the numbers aren't meaningless at all. When you commit 2 #1s and a #2 to offense in the last 3 years, that's an investment, in addition to all the many later round picks.

 

[slash83]

Bring Bill back!

 

[skinnydog]

You're making my point for me.

I'm saying the resources have been spent, but they haven't panned out. That's the whole point.

I still say the trade down for Strange was a good one because of all the picks they picked up and the fact that no one around him in that draft class is doing anything.

But the numbers aren't meaningless at all. When you commit 2 #1s and a #2 to offense in the last 3 years, that's an investment, in addition to all the many later round picks.

No it does not make your point. The balance shows a high concentration on defense. In the 4 draft looking at the first 3 picks it’s 9-3 in favor of the defense and in 2 of the last 4 drafts the offense was shut out in the first 3 picks. As for strange, they could have drafted Christian Watson the WR who plays for Green Bay. Not a star, but a better WR that Thornton by a mile. Then in the second round they could have likely still have taken Strange or the very next “guard” who was taken by Tampa Bay and has been their starting R Tackle this year. Hell, they could have taken Breece Hall who would have solved their lack of a RB who is a weapon as a receiver on top of his rushing skills

 

[upstater1]

No it does not make your point. The balance shows a high concentration on defense. In the 4 draft looking at the first 3 picks it’s 9-3 in favor of the defense and in 2 of the last 4 drafts the offense was shut out in the first 3 picks. As for strange, they could have drafted Christian Watson the WR who plays for Green Bay. Not a star, but a better WR that Thornton by a mile. Then in the second round they could have likely still have taken Strange or the very next “guard” who was taken by Tampa Bay and has been their starting R Tackle this year. Hell, they could have taken Breece Hall who would have solved their lack of a RB who is a weapon as a receiver on top of his rushing skills

The balance does not show a high concentration of picks for defense. First off I was going by the last 3 years, but even if I include your 4th year, it's 21 offensive picks to 15 defensive picks.

As for first 3 rounds, it's 9-6 defense. Last 3 years though, we have 2 first round picks offense, one 2nd rder.

The draft game where you pick a better player in hindsight is useless. No one had Watson in that 1st round. Most of us wanted a CB like Elam or a LB like Lloyd. You can actually go back and see all the predraft threads here or even the draft night thread. Belichick went offense instead, and for a need.

If you add 4th rounders to this whole exercise, the balance of offense to defense moves from 6 offense to 9 defense (1st through 3rd) to 11 to 10 offense to defense.

There is no way people can say that we havent expended draft resources on offense. The problem is that, of those 11 players, they've only yielded Rham, Strange and Sow. Though we don't know about Andrews yet.

I would also add that the late round picks on players like Onwenu, Pop Douglas, should counted as hits. Zappe is a hit in the sense that grabbing a backup in the 4th round is good work. Tyquan and Mac Jones are busts. While Boutte, Kevin Harris, Mafi are wait and sees.

 

[upstater1]

Geno Smith is a case. He isn't playing this year like he did last year, but he is worlds better than he was with the Jets.

But the thing is when a player is ruined, they usually never recover. Mac Jones was ruined here. Not putting the blame solely or mostly on Belichick, but Jones by midseason was a far worse QB than he was even in September of this year. I tend to doubt he will ever be the same QB he was his rookie season. Tony Eason was another. He was promising early in his career and then fell apart.

But the fact is QBs develop bad habits when not properly coached. If you play golf or another sport where technique is important, you know that it is far harder to get rid of bad habits than it is learn proper technique from the beginning. And with changes in coaching staffs, bad habits can set in.

Geno is an interesting case, but Seattle fans think he regressed this year, and there was talk of benching him. You have to do it for more than a season. Consider how many one year wonders there have been. For instance, Case Keenum. His numbers blew away Geno's,

I don't think there's a single thing a coach can do to prevent bad habits from a guy like Mac. He throws off his back foot, gets scared, has a substandard arm. You would think in the offseason there'd be special emphasis on proper mechanics, but that's the QBs responsibility to make sure he is throwing with the right platform. A QB coach might help, but by the time you're in your 3rd year, you know what proper mechanics look like. You've had time to study them and employ them. But they are beyond Mac's capabilities.

I know we disagree in our sense of Mac since we've been through it the entire year. But I disagree with your assessment that Mac devolved as he year went on. I saw Mac's problems in the second game against Miami and I wrote about it here: Key Players [Mac Jones/others] Isn't/Aren't Ready to Play

IMO, it was predictable he would devolve.

The rookie Mac that people remember? He was a mirage. He was scouted by NFL coaches, and they figured him out. He had no Act2. This is a common story. People go back and look at his rookie year as evidence, but we always see QBs have success for a year. Then the NFL takes away what they do best (throw over the middle). Once coaches figured out he couldn't throw an out pass, they clogged the middle. They figured out he was jittery and panicked, so they threw the kitchen sink at him. He had no way to combat that.

 

[VrabelJr]

People forget we needed to draft defense because we couldn't make good offenses punt. Like at all.

 

[skinnydog]

The balance does not show a high concentration of picks for defense. First off I was going by the last 3 years, but even if I include your 4th year, it's 21 offensive picks to 15 defensive picks.

As for first 3 rounds, it's 9-6 defense. Last 3 years though, we have 2 first round picks offense, one 2nd rder.

The draft game where you pick a better player in hindsight is useless. No one had Watson in that 1st round. Most of us wanted a CB like Elam or a LB like Lloyd. You can actually go back and see all the predraft threads here or even the draft night thread. Belichick went offense instead, and for a need.

If you add 4th rounders to this whole exercise, the balance of offense to defense moves from 6 offense to 9 defense (1st through 3rd) to 11 to 10 offense to defense.

There is no way people can say that we havent expended draft resources on offense. The problem is that, of those 11 players, they've only yielded Rham, Strange and Sow. Though we don't know about Andrews yet.

I would also add that the late round picks on players like Onwenu, Pop Douglas, should counted as hits. Zappe is a hit in the sense that grabbing a backup in the 4th round is good work. Tyquan and Mac Jones are busts. While Boutte, Kevin Harris, Mafi are wait and sees.

The draft becomes progressively more of a crap shoot. So what if the Pats load up on the late round picks for the offense. They are tilted toward the defense early in the draft where the better players “usually” are.

 

[PatsfanTN]

 

[upstater1]

The draft becomes progressively more of a crap shoot. So what if the Pats load up on the late round picks for the offense. They are tilted toward the defense early in the draft where the better players “usually” are.

???

I said the exact opposite. They didn't load up late in the draft. There are more defensive picks late.

I said they were pretty balanced early.

First 3 rounds, first 4 rounds, anyway you cut it.

Look at the premium on the 1st round. 2 first rounders and a 2nd on offense last 3 years.

 

[skinnydog]

They are not balanced early. They favor defense over offense

 

[PatsFan2]

Geno is an interesting case, but Seattle fans think he regressed this year, and there was talk of benching him. You have to do it for more than a season. Consider how many one year wonders there have been. For instance, Case Keenum. His numbers blew away Geno's,

I don't think there's a single thing a coach can do to prevent bad habits from a guy like Mac. He throws off his back foot, gets scared, has a substandard arm. You would think in the offseason there'd be special emphasis on proper mechanics, but that's the QBs responsibility to make sure he is throwing with the right platform. A QB coach might help, but by the time you're in your 3rd year, you know what proper mechanics look like. You've had time to study them and employ them. But they are beyond Mac's capabilities.

I know we disagree in our sense of Mac since we've been through it the entire year. But I disagree with your assessment that Mac devolved as he year went on. I saw Mac's problems in the second game against Miami and I wrote about it here: Key Players [Mac Jones/others] Isn't/Aren't Ready to Play

IMO, it was predictable he would devolve.

The rookie Mac that people remember? He was a mirage. He was scouted by NFL coaches, and they figured him out. He had no Act2. This is a common story. People go back and look at his rookie year as evidence, but we always see QBs have success for a year. Then the NFL takes away what they do best (throw over the middle). Once coaches figured out he couldn't throw an out pass, they clogged the middle. They figured out he was jittery and panicked, so they threw the kitchen sink at him. He had no way to combat that.

 

[PatsFan2]

I saw what you saw late in Mac's Rookie year especially against good Teams I was Never sold on him.

 

[upstater1]

I saw what you saw late in Mac's Rookie year especially against good Teams I was Never sold on him.

It's just mpossible to critique a rookie QB too much. They have severe growing pains.

You need to wait. I certainly am going to wait to see growth from whoever comes next.

By the way, the Bailey Zappe we've seen in the last several games has shown huge growth when it comes to moving around the pocket. He has shown some more accuracy as well. But obviously he hasn't overcome all his huge problems (which mainly have to do with decision-making and seeing the field).

 

[Ring 6]

He was a QB with a subpar arm who was supposed to make up for it with timing and a high football IQ which early on is what he showed until the last quarter of his rookie season. His next year was up and down and most chalked that up to Bill's idiotic decision to make Patricia the OC. I never liked Mac from the get go but he has clearly regressed. He shies away from hits and makes inexplicably bad throws over and over again.

If you look deeper you will see he was always the same guy but McDaniels protected him. Once he was figured out he couldn’t be protected any longer.
Patricia worked around his deficiencies. BOB expected him to be a true QB.
3 stages of being the same guy.

 

[State]

My ideal option is Belichick staying as coach but giving up personnel control. I don't want to see him decide contracts or draft players anymore, but I think he's still a good coach.

This.

It’s not a tough choice.

Jonathan and Robert to Bill:

“We want you to break Shula’s win record as the Patriots head coach, but accepting a GM we decide to handle the draft and other personnel decisions. With your input, of course.”

If that’s not acceptable to BB, so be it.

 

[State]

People forget we needed to draft defense because we couldn't make good offenses punt. Like at all.

Okay. But by the third round offense had to be a priority. A stud RT was there for the taking. But BB went more toys for his sons with the obscure hybrid guy out of a place no one’s heard about before. Oh, makes him look like a genius— in his own eyes.

Remember RT that was a disaster last year with Wynn and Marcus Cannon? Until a Jets PS guy came in and brought the play up, way up, to mediocre?

 

[RIpats88]

Why would I trust BB to draft and develop a rookie QB? His treatment of Mac and the very obvious willingness to get any real talent around him was a very poor decision. You really want a guy that may be here one more year to draft our future? what Have you seen that gives you hope that BB can improve the offense? (other than the fact it can’t get much worse).

This is the main question. We can argue whether Mac would’ve failed on his own.

But if we draft a rookie QB would we be happy with the following?

1. Give them a bunch of #3 and #4 receivers
2. 3 Ocs in 3 years. One of which being a DC who never did the job and a QB coach who only knows special teams
3. A shoddy OL

And if not, what makes you think he will change his philosophy on roster building?
What makes us think Bill will handle the next QB different?

It’s funny the zappe crowd is quiet now and become mostly zappe haters. Because the illusion of it being a 1 person fix is dead.

And what is the ceiling of a team built that way even if the QB is decent. Are we going toe to toe with the top teams putting Parker/juju out there as your #1 target?

 

[RIpats88]

People forget we needed to draft defense because we couldn't make good offenses punt. Like at all.

Has much changed though?