Important advice from BB

[bbobbo]

Slater told the kid to take a knee. So, either Slater was wrong or Jones was wrong.

Anyone who chooses to believe that Slater was wrong is welcome to do so.

Slater clearly is trying to "take one for the team." Jones had a brain cramp; what I don't get is he kept screwing up and BB kept putting him back out there.

I get what BB is saying, we assume that Jones makes the decision to come out of the end zone to return the KO. Slater hints that it's not Jones's responsibility but Slater himself who gives the signal. If it is Slater that makes the call, then it changes how we look and evaluate the plays.

If he doesn't hesitate on the opening ko, it's a decent return. He saw the crease, Slater waived him down, he stuttered out of the ez (still made it passed the 10). Maybe Slater was being conservative while the young rookie was being aggressive, but trying to listen to the grizzled vet. In any case, I know I was confused by the 1st return attempt, and upset with the 2nd. I hope Jones gets some positive plays in this weekend, he clearly has shown talent, I think he just needs some confidence.

@long distance and i were discussing this in bills post-game thread. i originally thought slater was just taking responsibility to cover up for cyrus, but looking back at it, it could have been slater's fault for not signalling clearly enough.

the problem was that the kickoff was short, so there wasn't much of a buffer between jones and the goal line. he's nearly out of the endzone before he notices slater's outstretched hand telling him to stay in, but by then it's too late because his momentum carries him out. if slater had shouted to him, "stay in!" while he was fielding the KO, there wouldn't have been any confusion.

here's the play:


i thought jones made a bad decision on the second KO as well, but again, looking back at it, if it's slater's responsibility to tell him to stay in, then it wasn't jones' fault for bringing the ball out because slater clearly doesn't signal jones to stay in the endzone:

 

[woolster22]

9

@long distance and i were discussing this in bills post-game thread. i originally thought slater was just taking responsibility to cover up for cyrus, but looking back at it, it could have been slater's fault for not signalling clearly enough.

the problem was that the kickoff was short, so there wasn't much of a buffer between jones and the goal line. he's nearly out of the endzone before he notices slater's outstretched hand telling him to stay in, but by then it's too late because his momentum carries him out. if slater had shouted to him, "stay in!" while he was fielding the KO, there wouldn't have been any confusion.

here's the play:


i thought jones made a bad decision on the second KO as well, but again, looking back at it, if it's slater's responsibility to tell him to stay in, then it wasn't jones' fault for bringing the ball out because slater clearly doesn't signal jones to stay in the endzone:

1st one was miscommunication. The 2nd Jones ran right into slaters ass.

 

[Deflatemyballs]

Harper blew one punt and got the axe. Jones is lucky he's a high draft pick. If he was a 7th round pick, or a UDFA, he'd be trying out for the Colts by now.

Yeah great analogy dude

 

[patfanken]

This goes without saying, but BB said it anyway and it's something all of us should remember. The below quote was in the context of him addressing Cyrus Jones's poor performance returning kicks vs. Buffalo (I bolded a couple key points).

(Link:Why Didn’t Bill Belichick Bench Cyrus Jones After Kickoff Mishaps? Coach Explains)

“The same thing that goes into everything I do: trying to do what’s best for the team,” the Patriots head coach said in his Friday morning news conference. “But I’d say my advice to you and to the fans and everyone else would be not to be too quick to decide who’s right and who’s wrong when you don’t really know what’s going on. “And that’s hard for me, too. If I watch something on another player on another team and I can see there’s a mistake, I’m not necessarily sure who made it. Obviously, something wasn’t done properly. That’s evident. But what went wrong and why it went wrong, what’s the background of how it happened — if you’re not really part of the team, that’s a very hard thing to evaluate. “I respect the experts that are out there. We have a lot of good ones. But I know it’s very hard for me when I see a mistake on film that another team makes to identify exactly what the problem was, because it could probably be one of two or three things. Unless you actually know what the call was, what they were taught to do, I don’t know if you really know who made the mistake.”

Well its not like I haven't been saying this for the last dozen years. It's why stuff like Howe's attributions of blame on the OL, and things like PFF are NOT the final word on who did well and who did poorly. They are merely one person's (who doesn't have all the key information) OPINION of who's to blame

They are nothing more than indicators, estimations, or considered opinions. They are sometimes interesting, and I admit I sometimes enjoy reading them. But they are NOT factual. So what we SHOULD be saying when we read Howe's report card (for example), is NOT "Cannon sucks", but rather "I THINK Cannon sucks", or "Based on the limited information I have, Cannon sucks"

We should also keep in mind the player's position. I would think DB's would be particularly hard to grade if you don't know everyone's responsibility on a play. Their success is so interrelated with other DB's and LB's On the other hand, a RB would seem to be easier to grade. At least easier than DB's.

In football the game can be so intricate that, what you see is NOT always what you get. It is sometimes, but not always. Now what WOULD be real interesting is to see at the end of the year, how the COACHES graded individual player. It would also be interesting to see BB break down a play where it looks like a player did a bad job from the outside, but how it was someone else's fault when all the info is revealed

 

[Fencer]

Every player has discretion to go against the specifics of what he's been coached or taught to do, if circumstances warrant. That said:

• If you do that, you'd better be right, and right for a good reason. In that case, you might be praised for a "good veteran play".
  
• Otherwise, you'd better be a veteran who's been right many times in the past, and just had a rare bad moment.
• One of my examples for this is Hobbs' 108 yard return; BB made it clear that Hobbs was the man on the field, and naturally the final decision maker.
• Jones probably did not feel that he was really the final decision maker.
• So I believe the claim that he was trying to do whatever he thought Slater was telling him to do.

Analogies to how US military officers are trained may not be entirely coincidental, although I imagine there's more practical discretion needed in, for example, the infantry than in the relatively tight confines of a Navy ship.

 

[DarrylS]

Is this the same BB that is denigrated and demonized by the radio talk shows for providing no information to the press?? Glad to see he is defending this rookie..

"When BB talks everybody listens."

 

[aluminum seats]

Cyrus Jones needs to never return kicks seriously he has of history of muffed punts we keep playing with fire and he's gonna wind up muffing one that winds up costing us a game or a big one and it can even be when we least expect it that really leaves a sting no more returns for Cyrus just stick to corner before he winds up pulling a Harper and yall know how that went

Here you go:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Use as many as you need.

 

[aluminum seats]

The only times "we" is appropriate in sports beyond high school level (up to that level, you've got a lot of parents/friends/etc... doing enough to help the team to give them the 'right' to use "we"):

You're a member of the organization
It's a college team, and you are currently attending that college

Eh.... does it really bother you when someone says we? I mean, I usually say Pats or Patriots, but the reason we care about this so much is that there's an identification with the team, so it does at least feel like "we." I always feel like people who say, "what, 'we?' are you playing on Sunday?" are kind of being jerks to be honest.

 

[Galeb]

Losing coaches make impulsive decisions to please fans.

I disagree. Losing coaches make impulsive decisions to please fickle owners.

 

[Wordsmyth]

The only times "we" is appropriate in sports beyond high school level (up to that level, you've got a lot of parents/friends/etc... doing enough to help the team to give them the 'right' to use "we"):

You're a member of the organization
It's a college team, and you are currently attending that college

Twelfth man. The fan.

 

[zoostation]

He's a CB so my point was not to axe him just no more returns just keep him at his normal position

I thinks it's way too early to jump to that conclusion. He came into Alabama as a receiver, converted to CB and excelled. He also lead the country in punt returns for touchdowns with 4 last year. Hopefully he gets it figured out soon.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Cyrus Jones needs to never return kicks seriously he has of history of muffed punts we keep playing with fire and he's gonna wind up muffing one that winds up costing us a game or a big one and it can even be when we least expect it that really leaves a sting no more returns for Cyrus just stick to corner before he winds up pulling a Harper and yall know how that went

I remember the boos for Jules when he was starting to return punts, and even when he was established, he was muffing them. And those cat calls to cut Gronk after he botched that kickoff against Cleveland as a rookie, then fumbled again right before the half.

Rookies make mistakes. They're rookies.

As for Harper, he took way too much blame for that. Yeah, he muffed a punt. He didn't lose the game for us though. After the Broncos scored on the short field, we were still up 7. The offense took over and took a 10-yard penalty. They almost overcame it, completing a 51-yard pass on 3rd down only to be penalized again. Overall, 3-and-out with 2 penalties and -10 yards which set up the Broncos with excellent field position for a FG. Then the offense went 3-and-out again for -5 yards.

The D would give up an 83-yard drive for a TD. Hightower would get injured. The offense rallied for a FG to tie the game, then got the ball to start overtime but managed -7 yards which set up Denver with good field position, needing only a FG to win. The D gave up a 48-yard TD run on 3rd and 1.

But that loss was entirely Harper's fault...

 

[Haley]

My biggest issue with these returns was the near kneeldown at the 1 yard line. I'm pretty sure I don't need BBs help to dissect the error in that. At least he didn't end up doing it but it's hard to believe he nearly did.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Slater told the kid to take a knee. So, either Slater was wrong or Jones was wrong.

Anyone who chooses to believe that Slater was wrong is welcome to do so.

The question is WHEN he told him that, and did he hear the call? It useless when it is too late...

 

[Deus Irae]

Eh.... does it really bother you when someone says we? I mean, I usually say Pats or Patriots, but the reason we care about this so much is that there's an identification with the team, so it does at least feel like "we." I always feel like people who say, "what, 'we?' are you playing on Sunday?" are kind of being jerks to be honest.

For someone who's trying to read a post and figure out why the hell "we" is suddenly infused into a post about a team someone's not actually a part of, it's a pain in the ass. "I was at the game, and when we drove the ball to the 30 yard line..." is lousy writing, unless you had the ball in your vehicle and decided to take to the field with it.

"We" aren't playing on Sunday
"We" aren't pregnant
"We" didn't have a little accident
etc...

Or, as the line goes "Not everything is about you" (not specific to you, personally but in general).

 

[RayClay]

Harper blew one punt and got the axe. Jones is lucky he's a high draft pick. If he was a 7th round pick, or a UDFA, he'd be trying out for the Colts by now.

It's more like Harper's a marginal NFL player. Jones looks like a decent CB and they need someone to do kickoffs.

 

[Mike the Brit]

As someone who's trying to read a post and figure out why the hell "we" is suddenly infused into a post about a team someone's not actually a part of, I find it a pain in the ass. "I was at the game, and when we drove the ball to the 30 yard line..." is lousy writing, unless you had the ball in your vehicle and decided to take to the field with it.

"We" aren't playing on Sunday
"We" aren't pregnant
"We" didn't have a little accident
etc...

Or, as the line goes "Not everything is about you" (not specific to you, personally but in general).

I too find the use of "we" annoying, not because I don't understand it, but because it goes together with a possessive attitude that closes the distance there should be between us (the fans) and the team. And it goes together with an armchair-GM attitude ("We need a nickel cornerback") that is irritating.

That said, there's a decent use of the "we", I think, when you're discussing football as a fan of your team with fans of another one. I don't think "We had a pretty good team that year, but the injuries were too much to overcome" is wrong.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bill Belichick goes full ‘Do Your Job’ when asked again about Tom Brady: ‘We’ll leave being fans to fans’

 

[PatsDeb]

This goes without saying, but BB said it anyway and it's something all of us should remember. The below quote was in the context of him addressing Cyrus Jones's poor performance returning kicks vs. Buffalo (I bolded a couple key points).

(Link:Why Didn’t Bill Belichick Bench Cyrus Jones After Kickoff Mishaps? Coach Explains)

“The same thing that goes into everything I do: trying to do what’s best for the team,” the Patriots head coach said in his Friday morning news conference. “But I’d say my advice to you and to the fans and everyone else would be not to be too quick to decide who’s right and who’s wrong when you don’t really know what’s going on. “And that’s hard for me, too. If I watch something on another player on another team and I can see there’s a mistake, I’m not necessarily sure who made it. Obviously, something wasn’t done properly. That’s evident. But what went wrong and why it went wrong, what’s the background of how it happened — if you’re not really part of the team, that’s a very hard thing to evaluate. “I respect the experts that are out there. We have a lot of good ones. But I know it’s very hard for me when I see a mistake on film that another team makes to identify exactly what the problem was, because it could probably be one of two or three things. Unless you actually know what the call was, what they were taught to do, I don’t know if you really know who made the mistake.”

Seems like he's saying Slater or someone else made the mistake, maybe not telling him to take a knee.

 

[aluminum seats]

For someone who's trying to read a post and figure out why the hell "we" is suddenly infused into a post about a team someone's not actually a part of, it's a pain in the ass. "I was at the game, and when we drove the ball to the 30 yard line..." is lousy writing, unless you had the ball in your vehicle and decided to take to the field with it.

"We" aren't playing on Sunday
"We" aren't pregnant
"We" didn't have a little accident
etc...

Or, as the line goes "Not everything is about you" (not specific to you, personally but in general).

Well that's just bad writing, which is kind of a different thing. In general the use of "we" is OK by me for a fan, although sometimes it does seem a little adolescent.

100% agree on "we're pregnant," which makes my skin crawl.