If you were Bill, the first 3 things you would do this offseason are...?

[State]

yup

one season under 10 wins, one season without winning the division, and the staff, coaches, scouts, and veterans should all go.

No one is saying that. But the trend of personnel decisions is, on balance, the reason the Jets very well may beat us and our TE group will have one catch for short yardage.

It’s the GM Belichick who hurt Coach Belichick—an ongoing Jordan Richards problem covered up for years by magical Brady.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

NFL Drafting Efficiency, 2010-2019 | Football Outsiders

This article notes the last 5 years were horrid. What do you think happened ?

 

[zimmy]

1. First thing you need to do is resolve the QB situation. You need to sign a veteran and draft a young starter. I'm concerned that the top free agents at WR/TE won't want to sign here until they know the QB situation has been resolved/improved. Do you think Godwin/Robinson etc are going to want to play with Cam? Not a chance. I'd explore the trade market (without using the 1st rounder)

2. Sign weapons - ideally one WR and one TE. My preference would be Godwin or Davis at WR, and then obviously Henry at TE, but that might be a little ambitious.

3. Sign a 3 down playmaker in the front seven somewhere. Bar Guy, we have literally no one you can hang your hat on there.

 

[upstater1]

These quotes of the NFL insiders, or from Breer's deep throat NFC personnel guy, are really so funny. He names Gilmore, Thuney and maybe JC Jackson as good, but the rest are just flotsam and jetsam. These are the exact type quotes I remember from 2001. Remember, after we got rid of the likes of Terry Glenn & Ben Coates, the Patriots were voted the least talented team in the NFL.

So, yeah, we only have 2 guys. The NFC personnel director has never heard of Shaq Mason, Isaiah Wynn, David Andrews, doesn't think much of Damien Harris, James White or Michael Onwenu, or Jonathan Jones! Young talent? Just ignore Chase Winovich, Kyle Dugger or Josh Uche.

Like deja vu.

 

[upstater1]

This article notes the last 5 years were horrid. What do you think happened ?

They really only single out the last 3 years, but then they ask, are there young players who can break out?

If these players turn into new versions of Ninkovich, Matt Light, etc. we'll be seeing the draft's in a different light (no pun): Chase Winovich, Isaiah Wynn, Joejuan Williams, & then a bunch of backups in Stidham, Cowart, Bentley, Wise--and an All-Pro punter in Bailey. Getting 3 top starters and an All-Pro punter is not great drafting, but also not horrid.

 

[captain stone]

These quotes of the NFL insiders, or from Breer's deep throat NFC personnel guy, are really so funny. He names Gilmore, Thuney and maybe JC Jackson as good, but the rest are just flotsam and jetsam. These are the exact type quotes I remember from 2001. Remember, after we got rid of the likes of Terry Glenn & Ben Coates, the Patriots were voted the least talented team in the NFL.

So, yeah, we only have 2 guys. The NFC personnel director has never heard of Shaq Mason, Isaiah Wynn, David Andrews, doesn't think much of Damien Harris, James White or Michael Onwenu, or Jonathan Jones! Young talent? Just ignore Chase Winovich, Kyle Dugger or Josh Uche.

Like deja vu.

You should too...I have...And so have opposing offenses...

 

[Sciz]

These quotes of the NFL insiders, or from Breer's deep throat NFC personnel guy, are really so funny. He names Gilmore, Thuney and maybe JC Jackson as good, but the rest are just flotsam and jetsam. These are the exact type quotes I remember from 2001. Remember, after we got rid of the likes of Terry Glenn & Ben Coates, the Patriots were voted the least talented team in the NFL.

So, yeah, we only have 2 guys. The NFC personnel director has never heard of Shaq Mason, Isaiah Wynn, David Andrews, doesn't think much of Damien Harris, James White or Michael Onwenu, or Jonathan Jones! Young talent? Just ignore Chase Winovich, Kyle Dugger or Josh Uche.

Like deja vu.

That’s a stupid quote, but at least it’s better than last year when Joe Thomas said nobody on the Patriots’ offensive line would be a starter for another NFL team.

 

[captain stone]

They really only single out the last 3 years, but then they ask, are there young players who can break out?

If these players turn into new versions of Ninkovich, Matt Light, etc. we'll be seeing the draft's in a different light (no pun): Chase Winovich, Isaiah Wynn, Joejuan Williams, & then a bunch of backups in Stidham, Cowart, Bentley, Wise--and an All-Pro punter in Bailey. Getting 3 top starters and an All-Pro punter is not great drafting, but also not horrid.

Including SloJuan here isn't helping build your case...Dude's flat-out Garbage.

 

[upstater1]

That’s a stupid quote, but at least it’s better than last year when Joe Thomas said nobody on the Patriots’ offensive line would be a starter for another NFL team.

With Thuney there, it was an idiotic thing to say. And it reminds me of the Titans Zach Piller in '03 saying the same about the Patriots OL. And never forget Warren Sapp totally dismissing the Patriots OL back then too.

But last year he might have caught Korey Cunningham, Ted Karras and Marshall Newhouse before he made that comment.

 

[Jimke]

Including SloJuan here isn't helping build your case...Dude's flat-out Garbage.

 

[Jimke]

We have to judge this team assuming they lose most of their 20 free agents. During the
last few years, most of the good ones have departed.

 

[upstater1]

Also, for the shmoe NFC personnel guy denigrating Belichick's ability to evaluate LBs, consider these drafts (which also leaves out the trades in the past for people like Roosevelt Colvin, Mike Vrabel, Rob Ninkovich, Kyle Van Noy (I'm sure I'm forgetting people)) :

2020:
2nd Josh Uche
3rd Anfernee Jennings

2019
3rd Chase Winovich

2017
5th Juwaun Bentley
6th Christian Sam

2016
6th Kamu Grugier-Hill
6th Elandon Roberts

2015
6th Matthew Wells
7th Xavier ****son

2013
2nd Jamie Collins
7th Steve Beauharnais

2012
1st Donte Hightower

2011
6th Markell Carter

2010
2nd Jermaine Cunningham
2nd Brandon Spikes

Who is this personnel guy who says Belichick is poor at evaluating LBs? And let's see his team's record of selecting LBs. I see one big miss, that's it: Cunningham. The FAs we've brought in over the years have been keys to the defense, while the top draftees like Mayo, Hightower, Jamie Collins, have all gone to Pro Bowls. And a couple of nondescript guys like Elandon Roberts have actually been instrumental in the winning of Super Bowls.

 

[Toofy]

I think we are underestimating the impact of tom brady in being able to entice playmakers on both offense and defense to join patriots.

With no brady, how many free agents would really want to come to patriots. Though we have belichick as the goat coach, the lack of play makers on both sides will make us look like a team that is closer to jets but with superior coaching which can get to 6 wins. Its more or less like vikings but without a functional Qb.


We need to take the dolphin playbook and try to create an identity for the team sans brady this year . Bill by playing cam tried an alternative and it failed. It has set us back by 2 years now. 2021 is also a lost season. Now it might take us another two years to remotely even compete for playoffs.

I really doubt if Robinson or hunter Henry would want to come here . Unless garopollo signs here, I don't see how any marquee free agent would want to come here . Even if they sign, it would be for top dollars and it could possibly weaken the team.

The only path forward I see is to build the team around defense by drafting defensive top end talent in draft and plugging some run stoppers and go with a stop gap qb option. Be a defense first, run second team. If we can get a cheap veteran qb under 10 million that would be the best option. No point investing top dollars when we are seriously deficient in all positions.

Do not spend too much in free agency this year. We should try to roll it to next year. Draft mid tier agents at bargain. Try to create a identity this season. Need to preserve cap for 2022.

No point drafting a qb early as well. What happens if the drafted qb is a bust. Create a solid core team and hope free agents will be motivated to join pats in 2022.

Listen to your scouts and hope we hit some home runs in draft and free agency like Hightower, van noy.

Keep two quarterback prospects for the next two years . That way you can evaluate if one among the 3 can be your starter.( Law of averages could potentially help us).

Trask might fall of the board. So might try a reclamation project with him in 3rd round if available.

 

[upstater1]

Do not spend too much in free agency this year. We should try to roll it to next year. Try to create a identity this season.

I hope they spend every last penny on free agency this year. It's the only year that so many teams are over the cap and the cap will be somewhat suppressed. In terms of pure dollars, you'll get the most bang for the buck this year. Next year, salaries will skyrocket again.

 

[Toofy]

I hope they spend every last penny on free agency this year. It's the only year that so many teams are over the cap and the cap will be somewhat suppressed. In terms of pure dollars, you'll get the most bang for the buck this year. Next year, salaries will skyrocket again.

I have heard Salary cap will be constrained for 3 years. With so many gaps, we shouldn't be spending 15 million on a single player like say hunter Henry.

2021 is a lost season. So better to invest cap dollars on both sides to get more above average talent as opposed to superstars. We need to have homegrown superstars like chiefs.

 

[Doctor DDS]

This article notes the last 5 years were horrid. What do you think happened ?

It actually shows the 2015 and 2016 drafts were exceptional and near the top of the league with the 5 year stretch as being slightly above league average. It does show the last 3 have been poor with the 2017 being notably terrible.

 

[Sciz]

I think we are underestimating the impact of tom brady in being able to entice playmakers on both offense and defense to join patriots.

With no brady, how many free agents would really want to come to patriots. Though we have belichick as the goat coach, the lack of play makers on both sides will make us look like a team that is closer to jets but with superior coaching which can get to 6 wins. Its more or less like vikings but without a functional Qb.


We need to take the dolphin playbook and try to create an identity for the team sans brady this year . Bill by playing cam tried an alternative and it failed. It has set us back by 2 years now. 2021 is also a lost season. Now it might take us another two years to remotely even compete for playoffs.

I really doubt if Robinson or hunter Henry would want to come here . Unless garopollo signs here, I don't see how any marquee free agent would want to come here . Even if they sign, it would be for top dollars and it could possibly weaken the team.

In Allen Robinson’s first free agency, he signed with the Bears to catch passes from Trubisky, who was coming off a rookie season of 7 passing TDs in 12 games. Almost every player is going to sign with the team that offers the most money, and nothing that happened during 2020 or will happen during 2021 is going to change that.

 

[upstater1]

It actually shows the 2015 and 2016 drafts were exceptional and near the top of the league with the 5 year stretch as being slightly above league average. It does show the last 3 have been poor with the 2017 being notably terrible.

2017 though we lost a 3rd round pick to deflategate, and we also traded for Brandin Cooks who turned into Isaiah Wynn

It would be interesting to take that into account by putting Wynn in the 2017 column while erasing erasing him from 2019. Or alternately considering the fact we got Brandin Cooks in 2017.

 

[captain stone]

It actually shows the 2015 and 2016 drafts were exceptional and near the top of the league with the 5 year stretch as being slightly above league average. It does show the last 3 have been poor with the 2017 being notably terrible.

2016 exceptional? Not by a damn sight.

 

[Doctor DDS]

2016 exceptional? Not by a damn sight.

Did you read the article and the chart? That is what I was referring to. Not my opinion.