If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best WRs

[BPF]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

No offense to the OP, but can someone just post one of those "epic fail" pictures and then we close this thread. We don't need to criticize Moss in order to compliment Welker, or vice versa. Which is besides the point as Moss is the NFL's best receiver.

I agree. Moss has been one of our hardest working and most consistent players this season and last. He is also a good blocker, which he never seems to get credit for and also a great leader. I LOVE Welker but with out Moss he wouldn't be as effective as he is, he would still be a quality WR because he is a hard worker and is a gifted route runner with tons and tons of quickness but not an 100 catch dynamo. Football is a team sport and every player is only as a effective as his teammates allow him to be. Moss is is a HOF and a player we shouldn't be worried about, despite what certain media members have to say.

 

[blackglass3]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Moss plays when he wants to.

Last year he was playing for a ring, a contract and a TD record. An he got two out of the three.

This year he wasn't playing for a pay day. And after the KCs it was obvious to him he wasn't getting the ring nor going to break any new records, and he already had contract, his effort dropped.

He is still one of the best WR of all times, but he doesn't put the effort or care into each game that Mr. 7-11 does.

The way you always rag on Moss is getting really old.

Yeah, no effort. Because having 2 or 3 guys on you all game has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Sivy]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

If Cassel could throw the deep ball half as good as brady, we'd have the two best wrs in the nfl right now.

 

[blackglass3]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

I agree. Moss has been one of our hardest working and most consistent players this season and last. He is also a good blocker, which he never seems to get credit for and also a great leader. I LOVE Welker but with out Moss he wouldn't be as effective as he is, he would still be a quality WR because he is a hard worker and is a gifted route runner with tons and tons of quickness but not an 100 catch dynamo. Football is a team sport and every player is only as a effective as his teammates allow him to be. Moss is is a HOF and a player we shouldn't be worried about, despite what certain media members have to say.

Incorrect on all points. Randy Moss is lazy, only cares about himself, and is nowhere near a leader. He is the A-Rod of the NFL.

Just as TheGodInAGreyHoodie. He knows better than Bill Belichick, Scott Pioli, ect ect.

 

[Sivy]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

As the 1st reply stated, this wouldn't be the 1st time a lack of effort has been brought up in regards to Randy.

Cassel is getting the ball to Moss just fine. Lately when they're accurate I see drop passes & when there's coverage I see very little effort to go after the ball. At his size he should be able to get almost every jump ball.

cassel cannot throw over the sholder, he's naild, what? One this year? Dont get me wrong, I like him and IM not complaining, just going with the topic of the thread.

 

[BPF]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Lol, some of this stuff makes me laugh uncontrolably it's so silly.

Anyway, here's what King writes about Welker today in his column:

NFL heading for Wild finish - Peter King - SI.com

I don't know how Wes Welker did what he did in Seattle. I mean this in a very positive way: In a business with a lot of interesting physical specimens, Welker is a freak of nature. Welker took the hit of a career last week against Pittsburgh across the middle, getting blown up by safety Ryan Clark on a vicious but clean hit. I wondered all week how Welker would respond. Would he miss any time? Call in sick? Beg his mother not to make him ever go out there again?

So he went to Seattle, caught 12 balls for 134 yards, added a two-point conversion catch on the decisive touchdown, and helped the Patriots come back to beat Seattle 24-21. Playing without Tom Brady, Welker has become Matt Cassel's ultimate security blanket and threatens to lead the NFL in receptions for the second straight year. With 96 catches, he's four ahead of Houston's Andre Johnson with three games to play. A couple of weeks ago, I was talking with Texas Tech coach Mike Leach, who coached Welker in college. "He's indestructible,'' Leach said. Couldn't have said it better. I hope the Patriots realize Welker's incredible value.

 

[Seymour93]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

It may have been a low key game stats wise for Moss, but didn't he recover a Jordan fumble on our first TD drive?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Incorrect on all points. Randy Moss is lazy, only cares about himself, and is nowhere near a leader. He is the A-Rod of the NFL.

Just as TheGodInAGreyHoodie. He knows better than Bill Belichick, Scott Pioli, ect ect.

You know, it doesn't have to be an "either/or" scenario. BB did have a talk with the team about the mentality after the Chargers game, and Moss clearly responded well afterwards and we saw his play improve significantly. Anyone who thinks that Moss has given his absolute best in every game this year is as wrong as someone who thinks that he's been dogging it.

Sometimes a person just can't find it within themselves to give the full 100%, be it due to injury, lack of focus, off day or whatever. I don't think it's unfair or inaccurate to say that Moss has that happen more often than does Welker, and I don't think it should be looked at as a knock against Moss, either, since he's probably giving all that he does have to give on any given Sunday. Welker, like Troy Brown before him, seems to have the very rare (even for pro athletes) ability to run at 100% more often than other players.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Moss plays when he wants to.

Last year he was playing for a ring, a contract and a TD record. An he got two out of the three.

This year he wasn't playing for a pay day. And after the KCs it was obvious to him he wasn't getting the ring nor going to break any new records, and he already had contract, his effort dropped.

He is still one of the best WR of all times, but he doesn't put the effort or care into each game that Mr. 7-11 does.

So, You don't think much of Tom Brady's opinion do you?

Tom's been on record as saying Randy's been a team orientated guy that is hard working, dedicated to the team and a great leader. Not to mention one of the smartest players he's ever played with - Bill has echoed those comments - So has Matt, Welker and many others.

Yet, you in your room, somewhere in the world, have decided that those guys are wrong and have leveled that crap on Moss, his character and his ability.

Brilliant.

 

[BritPat]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

These sorts of threads are popping up all too frequently lately.

Very sad to see.

 

[SteveBsFan]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

If Cassel could throw the deep ball half as good as brady, we'd have the two best wrs in the nfl right now.

QFE... is it the receivers fault when the QB can't get it to him? How many times this season has Cassel completely missed Moss on the deep ball?

Both Welker and Cassel should be thrilled Moss is there grabbing the double teams, otherwise Welker would have half the catches he has, there would be 0 talk of trading Brady, and the Pats may have 4 wins right now.

 

[bakes781]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Wow. A HOF receiver is being judged by someone called bakes781.

Ian - Another example.

For the record, if Randy did what Wes does he would be on the IR. They are two different types of receivers that complement each other - they are not interchangeable and play two different styles.

Randy has what? 31-33 touchdowns in two years with this team and you want to say he's "lollygagging". He has a certain style, you don't like it - fine - But to argue against his want and his will to win, with the No's he has put up, is pretty dumb.

I was gonna go with LouieB, but I thought I'd try to be original.

Last I checked this is a message board. You don't like my opinion? That's fine, but there's really no reason to belittle it or suggest that I shouldn't be allowed to have one.

I never questioned his "will to win" last season, but I wouldn't be the 1st to suggest that he's "dogged it" in the past. His desire almost certainly shouldn't be expected to be as great as it was a year ago, when he was trying to earn a big pay day.

 

[condon84]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

 

[JMarr]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

I agree with those who say Moss is not slacking this year. Just look at the way he's blocking downfield--alot more effort in that dept. than I've seen in years past. And I think he geniunely wants to win and prove his past critics wrong about his attitude.

He may be frustrated by not getting more passes but I'm sure he realizes some of the reasons why this is the case: being doubled almost constantly,
Cassel's lack of experience, accuracy and ability to read defenses compared to Brady [duh], and McDaniels' approach of being more conservative in the passing game than with Brady and taking what the defense is giving him [duh again].

I guess opposing teams still figure that Moss can hurt them more than Welker in most situations. I have a feeling that more opportunities will open up for Moss as teams try to adjust to stop Welker and force more mistakes by Cassel.

 

[Sivy]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

QFE... is it the receivers fault when the QB can't get it to him? How many times this season has Cassel completely missed Moss on the deep ball?

Both Welker and Cassel should be thrilled Moss is there grabbing the double teams, otherwise Welker would have half the catches he has, there would be 0 talk of trading Brady, and the Pats may have 4 wins right now.

I didnt say it was moss's fault, the oppisite is what i was saying actually.

 

[vyrago]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

What is it with this board? When things start to get quiet--even after a win--someone seems compelled to start attacking a Patriots player. And this Moss is a lazy biatch is getting old.

Leave the topic to Felger; it's his favorite hissy fit.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Just as TheGodInAGreyHoodie. He knows better than Bill Belichick, Scott Pioli, ect ect.

I not second guessing BB or SP.

I am not claiming we should cut Moss. Or that BB and SP made a mistake in signing him. Even when he is not playing with 100% enthusiasm he is still one of the better WR in the league and he has potential to be great.

But he is NOT the hardest working man on the team. He is a very talented and when he chooses to give it his all he can be great. But he ****y, selfish and doesn't always give it 100%. But even at less than 100% he is better than many other players in that position.

Wes on the other hand gives a 100% each and every game. He has less raw talent than Moss, but Wes has a lot more heart than Moss.

Wes has my respect, Moss does not.

But I am not second guessing SP or BB.

 

[blackglass3]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

I not second guessing BB or SP.

I am not claiming we should cut Moss. Or that BB and SP made a mistake in signing him. Even when he is not playing with 100% enthusiasm he is still one of the better WR in the league and he has potential to be great.

But he is NOT the hardest working man on the team. He is a very talented and when he chooses to give it his all he can be great. But he ****y, selfish and doesn't always give it 100%. But even at less than 100% he is better than many other players in that position.

Wes on the other hand gives a 100% each and every game. He has less raw talent than Moss, but Wes has a lot more heart than Moss.

Wes has my respect, Moss does not.

But I am not second guessing SP or BB.

But why is it always Moss? How about, "Man, Cassel's long ball was way off today" or "Wow, when Moss is triple covered he looks awful". How can you say he isn't giving his all? You have no idea.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

Someone feel free to disagree with me - but having been to games at Gillette and seeing most of the games on TV, I don't think there's ANY way anyone watching a game on TV can say anything about a WR's effort.

The camera tracks the QB - not the WR route - and most plays showcasing speed or effort aren't shown on TV - or in the stadium for that matter. You'd have to be constantly watching a WR to know how he's running his route - and changing up speeds might also be a part of the planned play - i.e. one starts slow, turns on the speed to fake out the DB or LB etc... so unless you know what the play called for Moss to do you can't say whether he was trying hard or not.

Beyond that, any WR who is on the field for nearly the whole game as Moss is simply cannot go all out full speed for each and every play. Such a player - even Moss - needs to conserve energy at times. The key is to keep the defenders guessing and keep them honest.

Additionally, Cassel looks like he has problems with the deep throws. Not knowing where Moss is supposed to be makes even this judgment call difficult, but we've seen enough of what look like clear underthrows or clear overthrows to be pretty confident in saying that some of the missed passes were not Moss' fault.

So one needs to factor in that we have a QB right now who's primary skill is NOT hitting the deep ball, and as such should consider ourselves pretty lucky that defenders are respecting Moss and the deep game. I actually credit McDaniels for continuing to call deep routes to Moss, recognizing that while the completion percentage is much lower than other QBs in the NFL, it behooves him to still make those calls to keep defenders honest and on guard.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: If Randy Moss gave half the effort that Wes Welker gives we'd have NFL's 2 best W

I was gonna go with LouieB, but I thought I'd try to be original.

Last I checked this is a message board. You don't like my opinion? That's fine, but there's really no reason to belittle it or suggest that I shouldn't be allowed to have one.

I never questioned his "will to win" last season, but I wouldn't be the 1st to suggest that he's "dogged it" in the past. His desire almost certainly shouldn't be expected to be as great as it was a year ago, when he was trying to earn a big pay day.

First of all, I never suggested you should not have an opinion - I disagree with your post and consider what you said very short sighted, That's just my opinion.

If he had been trying to earn a "Big Pay Day" he could have taken the Eagles offer that was reportedly bigger then what the Patriots were offering.

No, I don't like your opinion and (like you pointed out) that's the beauty of this board we can disagree and agree to disagree on this and many other topics.

And your opinion is not yours alone, as you can see many people have agreed with you. I'm not one of them and will take a hard line on this until Randy proves to me that he does not care about this team - That would take a TO type of response and I just don't think we will see that from him.