If PSU gets the Death Penalty What Happens to O'Brien?

[patsfaninpa]

I would also wager the investigation of what happened to Ray Gricar is ongoing. IMO, Freeh is just scratching the surface.

What happened to Ray Gricar? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...jerry-sandusky-pennsylvania-da_n_1088950.html

Gricar doesn't press charges against Sandusky in 98. Not told about 2001 incident. Disappears in 2005. Yet, you think there's a timeline between the two. Don't quit your day job to become an investigator. How many drug dealers do you think he arrested and had contact with between 1998 and 2005?? Hundreds maybe. Think your investigation should start there mate.

 

[Steve102]

Gricar doesn't press charges against Sandusky in 98. Not told about 2001 incident. Disappears in 2005. Yet, you think there's a timeline between the two. Don't quit your day job to become an investigator. How many drug dealers do you think he arrested and had contact with between 1998 and 2005?? Hundreds maybe. Think your investigation should start there mate.

appreciate the correction. nobody's perfect.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Others mentioned earlier in the thread. If you're looking for the next scandal, look at The Second Mile. Where has Sandusky worked the last 11 years? Hmmm.. No counselors there noticed strange behavior?? Hmmmmmmm. Gov Corbett got 600k from Second Mile. Waited until 4 days after he was elected to leak the Grand Jury report...Hmmmmmmmmm He was the Attorney General investigating Sandusky and knew about everything.

 

[Steve102]

Others mentioned earlier in the thread. If you're looking for the next scandal, look at The Second Mile. Where has Sandusky worked the last 11 years? Hmmm.. No counselors there noticed strange behavior?? Hmmmmmmm. Gov Corbett got 600k from Second Mile. Waited until 4 days after he was elected to leak the Grand Jury report...Hmmmmmmmmm He was the Attorney General investigating Sandusky and knew about everything.

I think it's all going to come to light. There are a lot of people who knew, or at least suspected and looked the other way. This has the potential to be a lot uglier than it already is.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

The football program was hit hard because it was the catalyst that made all of this possible. People in the football program enabled this guy and continued to enable this guy from the first time anything was reported in 98.

He wasn't bringing these kids on campus to see the library or bookstore. He was taking them to see the football facilities. These were kids who had broken homes and who were starving for attention in some cases. One victim said he kept going with Sandusky because he was the only one that would pay attention to him and take him places.... sick, sad, and shows you who he targeted.

Anyone who hasn't read the report, should do so before they comment either way. That report paints the picture pretty well. This was a massive failure on multiple levels with multiple departments, driven by untouchable leaders of that school and program.

 

[eagle eye]

Just read this and thought its the best comment I've heard since the punishment was announced.

"In a twist of bitter irony, NCAA punishes Penn State by pretending the last thirteen years didn't happen; "Touche," mutters the ghost of Joe Paterno."

 

[Huckleberry1]

It is maintaining competitive advantage BradyManny. Don't let Deus tell you otherwise.

Collegiate athletics is the prime environment to recruit on the basis of perception. The fact that the cover up was enacted on the basis of PR should tell you enough about the motives of the enablers.

I think this is the point. The sanctions and punishments are for gross negligence and criminal conduct in covering up child rape, and while Paterno's behavior in covering up the crimes didn't provide PSU with a competitive advantage what it did do was preserve the competitive advantage their lofty stature already provided them in recruiting. The wins are vacated because PSU's reputation and stature would have been damaged by revealing the behavior that was going on at PSU. People can debate how much their reputation would have been damaged and how much their recruiting would have been affected but it would be difficult to argue that they wouldn't have taken any hit. The severe sanctions are necessary because the message has to be sent to those in charge of athletic programs that covering up these kind of crimes will be met with punishments that far outweigh any repercussions that would come from disclosure. The sanctions and punishments were severe but could have been worse, and PSU got what they deserved because what they did was a disgraceful as it gets. For all those at PSU who believe they are being punished I can only say one thing-transfer.

 

[Jackson 2]

He is such a little weasel fan boy...LOL Doesn't even have the stones to stand by his own tweets...

You're right. He's like a little kid dressed in shorts, an O-State t-shirt and a beanie cap with a propellor on top yelling, "Yeah for my team!" No regard for the victims nor anyone else. And then, he has had the balls to cryptically suggest that BB is less than forthcoming with the media which Breer considers tantamount to treason. What an insufferable little d-bag...

 

[mgteich]

I am not sitting in place of the prosecutor or the jury. I don't know would would have happened had Joe Paterno still been alive.

As i said "he might have been indicted". He also might not have been indicted. He might have been convicted or not. Surely, he would have been sued for millions in many, many law suits. Perhaps these suits would have been successful; perhaps not.

My point was that now Joe Paterno will not be indicted and his family will not go through a criminal trial. Also, it is likely that the law suits against his estate will be many fewer than against him personally, if he were alive.

As far as I know, it has not been shown that Joe Paterno was legally liable since he reported the incident to the AD which was his legal obligation. You could argue that he then illegally used his influence to prevent the AD from reporting this to the authorities; as best as I can tell that's conjecture (but I haven't been following the this in enough detail to know).

 

[patfanken]

Yes. And while you're probably referring to Sandusky, I'm referring to Paterno. Sandusky being a pedophile isn't what got the PSU football program in this situation. Covering it up and then continuing to enable it *after* the incidents were reported is what led to this.

In that respect, every penalty that's been levied against them is appropriate. Why the hell are we still even debating this? Are there seriously people defending a program that was complicit in repeated incidents of child rape for over a decade?

Then you missed my point entirely. I have no problems in punishing all who were found ;culpable in covering up Sandusky's crimes. Fire them. Fine them, Put them in jail if its appropriate. But what I still don't get is why the football program ITSELF is being punished.

Just because Sandusky took those kids to Penn State games and facilities doesn't mean the Program sanctioned or encouraged those activities. If a Pedophile takes a kid to the USS Constitution, do you put the guilty in jail and then go and sink the boat????

Again punish the people who knew about this and let it happen anyways, but do not punish the programs itself....at least not to the extent that it has. BTW- that should go for the rest of the way the NCAA punishes programs that run afoul of the rules. Its rare when the actual wrong doers are punished. Reggie Bush the USC program hammered, but Kim Kardassian was a bigger embarrassment to him.

The NCCA should punish the Coaches to don't follow the rules, punish the players who knowingly took the gratuity. Punish the AD's who allow it to happen under their watch. And punish the university presidents who ignore poor behavior. However when you take away scholarships, and opportunities to play, all you are doing is hurting the kids who looking to play.

Even if you believe that taking away scholarships is a reasonable punishment, why are you punishing the NEXT coach. Say coach A is caught breaking the rules and is fired. Wouldn't it be a better deterrent if the NCAA took away the scholarships from the next school he coaches at. Why punish the new HC, who has done nothing wrong?

 

[VinnyPatrollie]

Then you missed my point entirely. I have no problems in punishing all who were found ;culpable in covering up Sandusky's crimes. Fire them. Fine them, Put them in jail if its appropriate. But what I still don't get is why the football program ITSELF is being punished.

Just because Sandusky took those kids to Penn State games and facilities doesn't mean the Program sanctioned or encouraged those activities. If a Pedophile takes a kid to the USS Constitution, do you put the guilty in jail and then go and sink the boat????

Again punish the people who knew about this and let it happen anyways, but do not punish the programs itself....at least not to the extent that it has. BTW- that should go for the rest of the way the NCAA punishes programs that run afoul of the rules. Its rare when the actual wrong doers are punished. Reggie Bush the USC program hammered, but Kim Kardassian was a bigger embarrassment to him.

The NCCA should punish the Coaches to don't follow the rules, punish the players who knowingly took the gratuity. Punish the AD's who allow it to happen under their watch. And punish the university presidents who ignore poor behavior. However when you take away scholarships, and opportunities to play, all you are doing is hurting the kids who looking to play.

Even if you believe that taking away scholarships is a reasonable punishment, why are you punishing the NEXT coach. Say coach A is caught breaking the rules and is fired. Wouldn't it be a better deterrent if the NCAA took away the scholarships from the next school he coaches at. Why punish the new HC, who has done nothing wrong?

Are you really this obtuse Ken? The PROGRAM, as led by JoePa and a few subordinates, covered up the truth to protect the PROGRAM, which led to further abuse of innocent children. Perfectly reasonable to punish the program and the school as a result. I don't think they went far enough TBH. It should have been the death penalty for an undetermined amount of time. Perhaps 20 years.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Just because Sandusky took those kids to Penn State games and facilities doesn't mean the Program sanctioned or encouraged those activities. If a Pedophile takes a kid to the USS Constitution, do you put the guilty in jail and then go and sink the boat????

They allowed it to continue and allowed their facilities to be used in his crimes, that is sanctioning it. He should have been reported to police immediately and banned from the properties for life. Paterno and his cohorts covered it up solely to protect PSU, and more child rapes occurred as a result. When those running a program don't disclose child rape solely to protect that program then the message has to be sent that the program will pay a price, not just the individuals, otherwise those in charge will continue to cover up crimes to protect those programs.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Just because Sandusky took those kids to Penn State games and facilities doesn't mean the Program sanctioned or encouraged those activities. If a Pedophile takes a kid to the USS Constitution, do you put the guilty in jail and then go and sink the boat????

You mean that just because they knew he was ass raping children in the showers and they let him continue to do so it doesn't mean they condoned it, they just allowed him to keep doing it...................................


Nothing wrong here folks just a little child rape, everyone carry on as always.................................................



And Ken, if those running the USS Constitution allowed Admiral Sandusky to keep bringing children onto the ship for the purpose of child rape then yes, sink the frigging boat.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

They allowed it to continue and allowed their facilities to be used in his crimes, that is sanctioning it. He should have been reported to police immediately and banned from the properties for life. Paterno and his cohorts covered it up solely to protect PSU, and more child rapes occurred as a result. When those running a program don't disclose child rape solely to protect that program then the message has to be sent that the program will pay a price, not just the individuals, otherwise those in charge will continue to cover up crimes to protect those programs.

I highly doubt anyone in any program throughout college football who has witnessed what has happened to Penn State since all this became public would have felt they "got away with it" had the NCAA not punished the program, thereby not being afraid to do the same thing themselves. Penn State's brand was hurt long before the NCAA penalties and will be hurt long after. Some people will forgive, but you know there are those out there that will never allow their child to attend Penn State University in any capacity.

I'm not defending Penn State whatsoever, I just don't agree with the idea that had the NCAA not acted, something similar would have happened again. All that has happened to Penn State from the moment the allegations were public to the instant before the NCAA announced their penalties was more than enough reason for other programs not to do the same thing.

 

[ausbacker]

Then you missed my point entirely. I have no problems in punishing all who were found ;culpable in covering up Sandusky's crimes. Fire them. Fine them, Put them in jail if its appropriate. But what I still don't get is why the football program ITSELF is being punished.

Just because Sandusky took those kids to Penn State games and facilities doesn't mean the Program sanctioned or encouraged those activities. If a Pedophile takes a kid to the USS Constitution, do you put the guilty in jail and then go and sink the boat????

Again punish the people who knew about this and let it happen anyways, but do not punish the programs itself....at least not to the extent that it has. BTW- that should go for the rest of the way the NCAA punishes programs that run afoul of the rules. Its rare when the actual wrong doers are punished. Reggie Bush the USC program hammered, but Kim Kardassian was a bigger embarrassment to him.

The NCCA should punish the Coaches to don't follow the rules, punish the players who knowingly took the gratuity. Punish the AD's who allow it to happen under their watch. And punish the university presidents who ignore poor behavior. However when you take away scholarships, and opportunities to play, all you are doing is hurting the kids who looking to play.

Even if you believe that taking away scholarships is a reasonable punishment, why are you punishing the NEXT coach. Say coach A is caught breaking the rules and is fired. Wouldn't it be a better deterrent if the NCAA took away the scholarships from the next school he coaches at. Why punish the new HC, who has done nothing wrong?

Are you really that blind that you can't see that the NCAA is punishing the institution given the position of those involved in the cover up?

 

[1960Pats]

I'm not a PSU guy but part of my family is from PA, and if either of my boys wanted to go to PSU back in their college days, I would have been all for it. I would have been there shaking all of the hands of those who helped ruin those children's lives. Those kids are the only true victims and I'll save all of my sympathy for them. Screw PSU and their 'program.'

 

[goheels22002]

Even if you believe that taking away scholarships is a reasonable punishment, why are you punishing the NEXT coach. Say coach A is caught breaking the rules and is fired. Wouldn't it be a better deterrent if the NCAA took away the scholarships from the next school he coaches at. Why punish the new HC, who has done nothing wrong?

I want to comment on this last point. Punishing the coach under whom the violations occurred is something on which the NCAA and the relevant professional leagues should indeed collaborate, With Paterno dead, the point is moot, but in the case of old friends Pete Carroll or John Calipari, the NCAA and the NFL or NBA respectively should agree on multiple year band from coaching equal to at least the term of probation or sanctions levied by the NCAA.

Pete Carroll trotted off to the Seattle Seahawks for more money while USC took a huge hit for his transgressions. These leagues are inextricably linked through the draft and can collaborate on coaching employment conditions as well.

As to the last sentence in Patfanken's post, the NCAA is not punishing the next coach. It is "punishing" the institution and its Board that looked the other way while young boys were raped by a grown man on their premises for more than a decade.

Bill O'Brien is a voluntary employee, is being paid $2.3 million in year one with escalators and incentives. Inside Bill O'Brien's Penn State contract - Big Ten Blog - ESPN

"Punishing" Bill O'Brien is a relative term at over $2 million per year and if the guy wanted to walk, I'm sure the Board and Acting AD would accommodate him. They are not exactly in much of a position to play hardball with a guy who agreed to take on the task of mopping up the mess.

The student athletes in the PSU football program are not being punished either. They are getting a free education whether they play or not, and being given complete freedom to attend another school without sacrificing a minute of eligibility.

Stay tuned. The US Department of Education is investigating this travesty, and there are three criminal trials to go for Curley, Shultz and Spanier. And we haven't even seen the first salvo in the civil suits.

If just one of those guys had dialed 9-1-1. Spanier, Shultz, Curley and Paterno all had the opportunity to do the first thing any junior high principal would have known to do if he or she was told a football coach was molesting a boy on campus.

Those guys weren't qualified to run a day care.

 

[Avenger]

Interesting tidbit, at least one victim disagrees with the punishment to the university.

Victim 4 wishes he had been given input in the fate of the Paterno Statue and Penn State | Dr. Saturday - Yahoo! Sports

 

[MoLewisrocks]

That's not unusual, just sad. The reason why a lot of abuse cases go unpunished. It's also one more reason why Sandusky felt empowered to do what he did. No one would stop him for fear of backlash or embarassment or the potential to damage something they loved... Same reason spousal abusers go unpunished. Same reason Dez Bryant's mother has decided not to press charges...

 

[Avenger]

That's not unusual, just sad. The reason why a lot of abuse cases go unpunished. It's also one more reason why Sandusky felt empowered to do what he did. No one would stop him for fear of backlash or embarassment or the potential to damage something they loved... Same reason spousal abusers go unpunished. Same reason Dez Bryant's mother has decided not to press charges...

The Dez Bryant thing might be a bit different, his mom is on probation and went to prison for selling crack.